Author Topic: Computer problem I just can't figure out.... (SOLVED!) (Read 13700 times)

TOK · « **Reply #40 on:** July 02, 2009, 07:03:39 pm »

My guess is power supply. That supply is a single 12v rail, and they're just do not supply enough voltage for modern systems. Classic symptoms are behaving fine in 2d apps, then going berserk in 3d when the card draws too much power.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #41 on:** July 02, 2009, 07:12:12 pm »

My previous PSU had dual rail and I still had the problem.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 02, 2009, 09:55:53 pm »

How Hot is the case and CPU?

Also, Check chipsets that are only heatsink cooled... which are getting way too
hot to the touch.

Open the side of the case, place a large box fan pointing that way... and do some
play tests.

protokatie · « **Reply #43 on:** July 02, 2009, 11:19:25 pm »

For some reason I can't get the thought that DirectX may infact be the problem. Maybe the current versions of DirectX have a bug that makes them not work well with the specific vidcard (something M$ would have to fix in a hotfix, or a driver fix (soon, hopefully) from the vidcard makers). I hope for you it is just the vidcard, have you gotten the chance to test the one from work yet?

I had a somewhat similar problem with a computer I bought 4 years ago. I would do anything 3d and it would run at 1-2 fps, it turns out that it was defaulting to OpenGL instead of Direct3D, but the video system didn't have native OpenGL support it just emulated it. Fixed it by ensuring stuff was using Direct3D instead of openGL.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #44 on:** July 02, 2009, 11:35:48 pm »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 02, 2009, 09:55:53 pm

How Hot is the case and CPU?

Also, Check chipsets that are only heatsink cooled... which are getting way too
hot to the touch.

Open the side of the case, place a large box fan pointing that way... and do some
play tests.

I've got seven fans in this case and temp monitoring always running. I tend to stay in the 38c - 48c range.

Quote from: protokatie on July 02, 2009, 11:19:25 pm

For some reason I can't get the thought that DirectX may infact be the problem.

I've tried both DX 9.0c and DX 10.

Right now I have the drivers downloading for this video card from work, and I'll see what happens with it.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #45 on:** July 03, 2009, 01:24:04 am »

Okay, my tests with the borrowed video card have shown no slowdowns, other than those related to the fact that it's an older card. Now I just need to get my hands on a more modern card and see how that goes.

Edit: Nevermind. The slowdowns are happening with that card as well.

Grrr....

I really appreciate everything you guys have done for me thus far.

Fordman · « **Reply #46 on:** July 03, 2009, 09:50:09 am »

Goto www.pcpitstop.com, you'll have to register, then download an ActiveX control and run the performance test. It will run a 2D & 3D test, tell you if that is where your issue is. Also it will do a drivers test to make sure your drivers are up to date. It will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about your setup. Your screen will do funny things for about 3 minutes, then it will give you results and compare with other testers to see where your system stands

It's free but beware, they are trying to sell you Antivirus and Driver UPdate software. They tell you whats wrong, you just have to hunt for the correct drivers from the mfg if they are out of date. Their driver update software is kinda like an all-in-one thing; tell whats wrong, download the latest driver from mfg, install for you.

give it a try!

Fordman

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #47 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:35:51 pm »

I ran Speedfan and watched it as I played. The CPU load maxes out every 10-20 seconds for about five seconds at a time. Doesn't happen when running normally, but it does when I start anything 3D. Hmmmm.....

ChadTower · « **Reply #48 on:** July 03, 2009, 09:11:04 pm »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 03, 2009, 05:35:51 pm

I ran Speedfan and watched it as I played. The CPU load maxes out every 10-20 seconds for about five seconds at a time. Doesn't happen when running normally, but it does when I start anything 3D. Hmmmm.....

May not really point the finger at 3D... could be circumstantial since 3D is probably your most taxing usage. Try running something that isn't 3D but would work the system just as hard.

Hoopz · « **Reply #49 on:** July 03, 2009, 10:26:01 pm »

I saw you mentioned the onboard audio and possibly trying a sound card. Assuming your driver for it is up to date, how did disabling it go? Did you try the sound card?

Also, when you installed the OS, did you install the chipset drivers? What about SATA drivers for the hard drive(s) or raid drivers? Basic stuff that you probably did but it doesn't hurt to ask.

If those things all test out, I would think the next step is to try and find someone with the same specs or close to it to see any issues that they have (or not).

When you say the slowdowns happened on a regular cycle as opposed to actual game play, was it happening every X amount of time (15 seconds or 1 minute) etc?

Also, it looks like you've covered the game that'll test your system fairly well. I'd say throw in a game from a few years ago and see how it does. QIII or Unreal Tmnt etc. Don't max out the video and see how it plays. If you get the same issues, that may help diagnose the issue.

Does Windows still have DirectInput? I forgot about that but it may have some issues. It wouldn't hurt to check out their website for a known problem with directX or input and your mobo. Check Asus' site also for it.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #50 on:** July 03, 2009, 10:46:46 pm »

Quote from: Hoopz on July 03, 2009, 10:26:01 pm

I saw you mentioned the onboard audio and possibly trying a sound card. Assuming your driver for it is up to date, how did disabling it go? Did you try the sound card?

I disabled the onboard and it showed no improvement, so at that point I just assumed adding a sound card would make no difference.

Quote

Also, when you installed the OS, did you install the chipset drivers? What about SATA drivers for the hard drive(s) or raid drivers? Basic stuff that you probably did but it doesn't hurt to ask.

All that.

Quote

If those things all test out, I would think the next step is to try and find someone with the same specs or close to it to see any issues that they have (or not).

Kinda hard with all the different setups out there to do. I've searched for people using the same motherboard, and none of them have reported the same issues.

Quote

When you say the slowdowns happened on a regular cycle as opposed to actual game play, was it happening every X amount of time (15 seconds or 1 minute) etc?

Yeah, X amount of time. It was different depending on what was running, but it was always in a regular pattern.

Quote

Also, it looks like you've covered the game that'll test your system fairly well. I'd say throw in a game from a few years ago and see how it does. QIII or Unreal Tmnt etc. Don't max out the video and see how it plays. If you get the same issues, that may help diagnose the issue.

Postal 2 on 640x480 with everything turned all the way down still does it, though I tried Unreal Tournament (the original) and it ran flawless.

Quote

Does Windows still have DirectInput? I forgot about that but it may have some issues. It wouldn't hurt to check out their website for a known problem with directX or input and your mobo. Check Asus' site also for it.

DXDIAG reports no problems. It's strange how in a game, if I'm doing nothing, it still slows down, but the SFIV benchmark ran great (while the game ran great, then like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, then great, then ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---...).

I appreciate all the questions, Hoopz.

Hoopz · « **Reply #51 on:** July 04, 2009, 01:01:24 pm »

Ok.... Maybe have Saint or a mod move this to the software forum. Some of those guys may have some ideas.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #52 on:** July 04, 2009, 02:19:50 pm »

Nah....I think I'm just gonna give up for now.

IceCold · « **Reply #53 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:47:40 pm »

Would've replied sooner but just saw this thread.

I'm calling it heat. Read first post, thought heat. Read the rest of the posts, and REALLY think heat. You have seven fans, but that doesn't mean much. If one or two of them are backwards your airflow will be crap. Also, the thermal compound hooking your heatsink to your processor could be not working properly.

Install prime 95. Run it on both cores while monitoring speedfan. I bet your heat will skyrocket much higher than you would've anticipated. And, as said, it could be your chipset getting too hot.

This has the side benefit of testing ram too, if you run the blend test. I agree with Xiaou2, open the side of the case, point big household fan at it, and try play tests. Oh and try running 3dmark, that will be less subjective than watching game performance.

Don't give up just yet

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #54 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:37:09 pm »

I did try the free version of 3dmark, and man did it bring my system to a crawl (couldn't change settings to reflect what I tend to run games at). The only thing getting hot is the video card, topping out at 69° C, but even when it's running cool, I still have the problems. (If it was just a hot card, wouldn't the problem stay once it got too hot? Like I've mentioned, this is an almost cyclical problem, ebbing and flowing in a regular pattern)
I just ran a different tool and come to find out, it's my CPU that is running that hot! OUCH!

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them.

ChadTower · « **Reply #55 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:51:00 pm »

Are you playing in a nightclub? Strobe lights?

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #56 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:52:28 pm »

Other than the hit of X I take before each game, no.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 09, 2009, 03:36:45 pm »

Disable any speed throttling in the bios.

Quiet & Cool, and auto-overclock.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #58 on:** July 09, 2009, 03:37:39 pm »

Already taken care.

IceCold · « **Reply #59 on:** July 09, 2009, 03:48:49 pm »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 09, 2009, 02:37:09 pm

I did try the free version of 3dmark, and man did it bring my system to a crawl (couldn't change settings to reflect what I tend to run games at). The only thing getting hot is the video card, topping out at 69° C, but even when it's running cool, I still have the problems. (If it was just a hot card, wouldn't the problem stay once it got too hot? Like I've mentioned, this is an almost cyclical problem, ebbing and flowing in a regular pattern)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them.

Well I don't think it's just a hot video card, as you wouldn't have had the problem with the other vid card. It would make sense if it was hot chipset or CPU though, as it would get hot, throttle itself to cool down, and then heat back up. So it would be cyclical like what you describe.

Have you had a chance to try the large household fan? That would rule out heat(as it would be blowing on the chipset as well, and would be giving you lots of cool air on it).

Do you have a different power supply you could try? I would also try clearing your bios back to factory settings in case some weird setting got changed.

If none of that works, I'd probably just buy a new motherboard. Time is money, and the more time you spend on this, the less money spending another $50-$60 on a motherboard seems. According to a newegg review of your motherboard:

"where to start, the board didnt work right out of the box had to clear the cmos, then it would boot because of having two sticks of memory. after I messed with it for awhile it ran windows ok but games was a whole other thing. I have a athlon x2 6000+, 9600gt 2 gigs ram, 250 gig sata hd and had fps randging from 5 to 95 on call of duty 5 tried everythin nothing helped bought a new msi k9a2 neo-f and my fps went to 60 to over a hundred on high setting with all the same stuff except the motherboard."

Seems there was a decent amount of people having trouble with that motherboard. Might be worth trying to RMA it as well.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #60 on:** July 09, 2009, 03:54:40 pm »

Too late to RMA. As for buying a new mobo, my wife won't let me spend any more money on my computer. My last one had the PCI-E slot go out on it after owning it for only a little over a year, so I had to buy a new setup (and put that mobo in my arcade, since a regular PCI video card was fine for MAME). She said no more spending.

I did set the bios back to defaults, but I haven't moved the jumper yet to clear the BIOS completely. I will do that and I'll try the fan method soon as well. Thanks.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #61 on:** July 09, 2009, 04:57:37 pm »

By the way, I do have THIS which I'm considering applying, since right now I just have the OEM stuff with the AMD stock heatsink and fan. I'm going to see if it helps any, plus I'm thinking about ordering a better northbridge cooling solution, since it just has a small heatsink that gets too hot.

SithMaster · « **Reply #62 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:29:47 pm »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 09, 2009, 03:54:40 pm

Too late to RMA. As for buying a new mobo, my wife won't let me spend any more money on my computer. My last one had the PCI-E slot go out on it after owning it for only a little over a year, so I had to buy a new setup (and put that mobo in my arcade, since a regular PCI video card was fine for MAME). She said no more spending.

I did set the bios back to defaults, but I haven't moved the jumper yet to clear the BIOS completely. I will do that and I'll try the fan method soon as well. Thanks.

If you really need to buy a new board (same one) to switch and return.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #63 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:32:36 pm »

I don't think a new board of the same kind is the answer. If it is the heat, it's common with this board according to what I've read. I'm going to mess with some heat solutions tonight and see what happens.

IceCold · « **Reply #64 on:** July 09, 2009, 07:46:21 pm »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 09, 2009, 05:32:36 pm

I don't think a new board of the same kind is the answer. If it is the heat, it's common with this board according to what I've read. I'm going to mess with some heat solutions tonight and see what happens.

I think he's alluding to the issue being something like a defect on the PCI Express bus of that specific motherboard(not all of that model, just yours), or some other issue that swapping your motherboard with a different of the same model would fix. You might be right, though, that whole model may just suck.

And I understand where you're coming from, I couldn't drop money on a new motherboard right now either. Money's tight for a lot of people, I'm just concerned that there may not be an answer to this problem. Anyways let us know where you get with messing with the heat solutions, and I'll try to think about it and see if I come up with anything else

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #65 on:** July 09, 2009, 08:40:46 pm »

I've cleared the BIOS, applied OCZ Silver Thermal Paste, and I've got a box fan blowing into the open side at full blast. It ain't doin' jack for me.

Prime95 is currently running.....

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #66 on:** July 09, 2009, 08:57:44 pm »

I just installed PC Probe II, which came bundled with my mobo, and the 69° I mentioned above turns out to be my CPU(!), not my video card! Now I'm trying to figure out how to keep this sumbitch from running so hot. Guess I need to shell out for a better heatsink and fan. This is a socket AM2, and I looked at xoxide.com, but thought maybe some of you might have suggestions on a cooling solution. Anyone? (Please, no water cooling)

protokatie · « **Reply #67 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:46:28 pm »

Well, you could always take all of the food out of your fridge, move the beer to the crisper, and cut a hole large enough in the side for the cables to poke through... Ive heard of people building small server racks inside fridges (much cheaper than ACing a room), so it might work for you. On a plus note, after your wife kicks you out and divorces you for doing this, she will prolly let you take the fridge with the hole in the side with you!

ps I would recommend putting an open container full of uncooked rice in the fridge and swapping that out every few days (soaks up any moisture that may condense in the fridge and hurt the computer)

ChadTower · « **Reply #68 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:02:20 am »

It's running that hot with the case open and a large fan on it?

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #69 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:07:54 am »

Well, not that hot with the case open and fan on it. About 55°-60° tops in that situation.

ChadTower · « **Reply #70 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:10:43 am »

I haven't dealt in home hardware at that level in quite a while. What is the OEM accepted operating range for that cpu?

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #71 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:11:07 am »

beats me

ChadTower · « **Reply #72 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:19:51 am »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 10, 2009, 09:11:07 am

beats me

You want to know that. What's the point of trying to lower the temp if you don't know where it should be operating? Operating range should be in the manual. For all you know it's already where it should be.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #73 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:22:46 am »

I know that I should know it. I "knew" it, but don't recall. I just don't have the number off the top of my head and need to look it up....

Sorry, this morning is being spent looking at buying UFC tickets for Sept 16 (Fight Night Live! Nate Diaz vs Melvin Guillard / Gray Maynard vs Roger Huerta!)

ChadTower · « **Reply #74 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:27:12 am »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 10, 2009, 09:22:46 am

Sorry, this morning is being spent looking at buying UFC tickets for Sept 16 (Fight Night Live! Nate Diaz vs Melvin Guillard / Gray Maynard vs Roger Huerta!)

Heh. Went to an IFL event but can't say I have been to the UFC.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #75 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:29:47 am »

They haven't been in OKC since UFC 4! I about pissed myself when I found out tix go on sale tomorrow! This is going to be the best birthday present ever.

ChadTower · « **Reply #76 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:40:42 am »

Yeah OKC isn't exactly a booming market. Awesome that you finally get the chance to see them if that is something you have wanted. They do occasionally come up here but I have never gone.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #77 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:42:17 am »

One of the few times I've actually been aware of an event like this before tix go on sale. At WCW and WWE, I always got stuck in the nose-bleeds. Going for better seats this time.

ChadTower · « **Reply #78 on:** July 10, 2009, 10:36:38 am »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 10, 2009, 09:42:17 am

One of the few times I've actually been aware of an event like this before tix go on sale. At WCW and WWE, I always got stuck in the nose-bleeds. Going for better seats this time.

Meh, depending on the cost spread, you're often better off further back and bringing binoculars. The only time being closer is a real benefit is if you're one of those idiots who paid through the colon for the first 5 rows. Any further back than that and you're usually looking at the back of people's heads because the floor is flat. Or, at a wrestling event, you end up spending the whole event yelling at the guy in front of you that you didn't pay $100 a seat to look at the back of his ID RATHUR BE IN CHYNA sign.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #79 on:** July 10, 2009, 10:42:55 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on July 10, 2009, 10:36:38 am

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 10, 2009, 09:42:17 am
One of the few times I've actually been aware of an event like this before tix go on sale. At WCW and WWE, I always got stuck in the nose-bleeds. Going for better seats this time.

Meh, depending on the cost spread, you're often better off further back and bringing binoculars. The only time being closer is a real benefit is if you're one of those idiots who paid through the colon for the first 5 rows. Any further back than that and you're usually looking at the back of people's heads because the floor is flat. Or, at a wrestling event, you end up spending the whole event yelling at the guy in front of you that you didn't pay $100 a seat to look at the back of his ID RATHUR BE IN CHYNA sign.

That's why we're trying for the first level off the floor, as close to those front rows as possible.


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