ADA Compliance

[SavannahLion]

In my office building, they're tearing apart the restrooms because a passageway hook in some of them was deemed too narrow for wheel chair access. Nevermind that I have never seen a disabled person actually have problems accessing and navigating this hook.

In any case, this got me to thinking about arcades. When I was younger, arcades were much tighter on the floor plan. Many of the ones I frequented had just enough room between cabs for a player at each cab and a third person to just squeeze through. Wheel chair access be damned. The arcade in Tron is a pretty good example of the kind I frequented. Nowadays, most arcades I frequent (of the few there are) have so much distance in between rows of cabs you can probably drive a mini between them. Even when you account for the large cabs like DDR, there's an awful lot of wasted space that could be better dedicated over to more cabs.

But then I realized that a vast majority of American made cabinets from any era are not going to be ADA complaint no matter what. Their controls are too high, there's no room for the chair, some older cabs have their monitors set high and nearly horizontal so any one too low can't see it anyways. And one can forget about a lot of the motion feed back cabs and DDR type stuff or the cabs that require foot pedal input.

So has anyone ever heard of an arcade getting nailed for non-ADA compliance? I mean, I don't think any arcade owner can reasonably comply unless they get a whole bunch of Japanese Candy cabs and make their whole arcade look like a fricken McDonalds.

[FrizzleFried]

This wasn't a problem when arcades were big time (1978-1984) as the ADA was created in 1990...

[Ed_McCarron]

Besides, the games aren't part of the building.  Do desks have to be ADA compliant?  Office chairs?  I assume its just the permanent fixtures.

[SavannahLion]

This wasn't a problem when arcades were big time (1978-1984) as the ADA was created in 1990...

I'm talking about current arcades. I don't know of very many arcades from pre-'84 that are still around.

[Malenko]

not to sound like a --missioncontrol--, but how many wheelchair bound people complain they cant get to the DDR machine?

[TOK]

not to sound like a --missioncontrol--, but how many wheelchair bound people complain they cant get to the DDR machine?

Exactly. The only experience I have with compliance is chemical stuff (MSDS), but there has to be some reasonable limit to the accessibility law, I'd imagine entrances, emergency exits and restrooms.

The fact that you need full function of all your faculties to play most arcade machines should preclude them from being governed in exactly the same way a skateboard park would. Their entrances and bathrooms might need to be accessible, but that'd be it, right?

[Paul Olson]

not to sound like a --missioncontrol--, but how many wheelchair bound people complain they cant get to the DDR machine?

I'm guessing it is a similar percentage to the number of blind people who use drive up ATMs.

[SavannahLion]

not to sound like a --missioncontrol--, but how many wheelchair bound people complain they cant get to the DDR machine?

I'm guessing it is a similar percentage to the number of blind people who use drive up ATMs.

Which is apparently an astonishingly lare number since every drive up ATM on Earth seem to have braille.

The fact that you need full function of all your faculties to play most arcade machines should preclude them from being governed in exactly the same way a skateboard park would. Their entrances and bathrooms might need to be accessible, but that'd be it, right?

That's what I'm wondering. IIRC the city pool (I try to avoid it as much as possible) has ADA access right up until you get to the edge of the pool. I wonder if the same requirement must be said of the skateboard park and/or arcade? You need to give them access right up to the entertainment. What they do with that entertainment is left up to them?

So I guess the cabs fall under the same mechanism as skateboard parks and fair/park thrill rides. Reasonable accommodations need to be made but nothing can be done if the very avenue requires some function to be enjoyable. Like the blind at a movie theatre. Plaster braille all over the place, not going to change the fact that they're still not going to see the movie.

[dgame]

Think of it from this perspective:

The people in wheelchairs should at least be able to travel through the place.
If a parent or friend needs a wheelchair shouldn’t they be able to accompany their child or friend to the arcade/skate park/ swimming pool?
 
Not being able to play the DDR machine is one thing, but everyone should be able to get to it to watch others play.

[FrizzleFried]

This wasn't a problem when arcades were big time (1978-1984) as the ADA was created in 1990...

I'm talking about current arcades. I don't know of very many arcades from pre-'84 that are still around.

I didn't know there were any current arcades?! 

The only ones I know of are the "Boomers" Putt-Putt places, etc... and I'm sure they're ADA compliant.

[FrizzleFried]

not to sound like a --missioncontrol--, but how many wheelchair bound people complain they cant get to the DDR machine?

This guy sure as hell didn't complain...

[SavannahLion]

This wasn't a problem when arcades were big time (1978-1984) as the ADA was created in 1990...

I'm talking about current arcades. I don't know of very many arcades from pre-'84 that are still around.

I didn't know there were any current arcades?! 

Well... not the way they were defined in the 80's and early 90's. In my book, true arcades do not have ticket redemption machines and must have at least one vending machine by the entrance (cigs, condoms, soda or candy, makes no difference) and a bored operator (hot chick a bonus) to hand out change. Today's arcades seem to be comprised of about 75% ticket redemption machines, about 20% of actual, honest to god, arcade cabinets, and the rest as rides. The last true arcade that I visited and the latest I can recall would be at the MGM/Bally's/Harrah's/Grand Sierra. Have no idea if the arcade is still in their basement anymore. 

As for the rest, I can count all the ones I know to still exist within a 30 minute drive on one hand and none, not one, are like the massive arcades of yore. The closest like them would be at the Greyhound bus stop with it's five or so cabinets and overwhelming stench of bums.

not to sound like a --missioncontrol--, but how many wheelchair bound people complain they cant get to the DDR machine?

This guy sure as hell didn't complain...

And where's the wheel chair? Besides, that guy is cheating. I think he's using his crutches to handle the double steps. 

[ChadTower]

IIRC, the machines don't have to be accessible but every normal facility does - all exits, bathrooms if there are any, etc.  There has to be two easily wheelchair accessible exits from any given point in the place in case of fire, too.

[Paul Olson]

The last true arcade that I visited and the latest I can recall would be at the MGM/Bally's/Harrah's/Grand Sierra. Have no idea if the arcade is still in their basement anymore. 

It is still there, but it is kinda sad to go there now. It is closer to 90% redemption games now. The small area allotted for video games is limited to banks of 4 to (i think) 8 racing games, and a few shooting games. This was probably the best arcade in town, but now we only go there if we are waiting for the buffet. They do have the newer afterburner cockpit game, which is fun to play. Or you can play laser tag in an un-air conditioned room - Some of my friends played last time and they just wanted to get out of there.

There are no great arcades left here in Reno, but there are still a couple of good ones. Atlantis and John Asquaga's nugget are probably the best.

[ChadTower]

Everyone needs instant access to the bathroom at an Indian buffet.

[ChadTower]

Why?  Don't they just go in a plastic bag anyway?

Most people in wheelchairs are not paraplegic.  They're injured, or they're old, or disabled for other reasons.

[Arcadiac]

From personal experience (my disabled son Kevin) the bathrooms are bigger to allow for wheelchair manuverability.  To enable tranfer from the chair to the pot and back safely.  And to allow the privacy anyone else is entitled to by having enough space to close the door completely behind you.  Consider also that the disabled person may require some help in transfering and cleaning up afterwards, requiring room for another person in the stall.
There are a lot of factors to consider with the differing degrees of dis/ability.

Until you are in a chair or accompany someone who uses one daily it's kinda hard to relate.
We've had some very ---smurfy--- experiences dealing with different arena and public entertainment venues, never mind the normal daily obstacles.
The horror stories, OY!

The ADA is very much worth reading if only to educate yourself.
Depending upon where you live we still have a long way to go!
And with the general population living to be much older it's very likely to become an issue in YOUR life somewhere down the path.

Don't get me started! 

FYI, Kevin pulls his chair up to the arcade machine as close as he can get, leans forward and makes it his ---smurfette---!   

ARCADIAC!

[Ed_McCarron]

I got yelled at in a bathroom a few weeks back.  I needed to change a diaper, and the handicapped stall had the changing table fold down thingy in it.

When I was left the stall, there was a younger (20 something) guy in a wheelchair with I assume his father pushing it.

Father was freaking out that I used the handicapped stall and wasn't handicapped, like it was reserved like a parking spot.

Kid looked mortified.

I was too stunned for even a smart comeback.

[ChadTower]

A simple "dude it's bad enough I'm wearing a diaper" would have probably sufficed.

[Ed_McCarron]

A simple "dude it's bad enough I'm wearing a diaper" would have probably sufficed.

Har-de-har.

The diaper was on a 2 year old.

I wear depends.  Thats totally different.

[LLUncoolJ]

I didn't even piss on the seat too much, not sure what her problem was.

OK, that improved my mood.

[SavannahLion]

I got yelled at in a bathroom a few weeks back.  I needed to change a diaper, and the handicapped stall had the changing table fold down thingy in it.

When I was left the stall, there was a younger (20 something) guy in a wheelchair with I assume his father pushing it.

Father was freaking out that I used the handicapped stall and wasn't handicapped, like it was reserved like a parking spot.

Kid looked mortified.

I was too stunned for even a smart comeback.

There's always a few (or many?) people like that. It's this mentality that society owes them everything. If there's anything they perceive as a slight against them, they'll take the biggest offense at it. The restroom scenario seems to be the most common. I've also heard stories about pregnant women with blue cards having run-ins with handicaps (yet the same people don't give a second thought to loaning their blue-cards to their friends/family for that quick jot to the store).

[ChadTower]

In college I had a roommate who was here from Taiwan.  He had a borrowed blue card that he used to use all the time even though he was perfectly healthy.  Took my (now) wife and I a while to convince him that it wasn't cool here to use the handicapped spots if you're not actually handicapped.

[Arcadiac]

Keep in mind that anyone of us can become a "handicap"  at any time in a New York second, through no choice of your own by accident or illness.

Damn "walkies" 

ARCADIAC!

[SavannahLion]

In college I had a roommate who was here from Taiwan.  He had a borrowed blue card that he used to use all the time even though he was perfectly healthy.  Took my (now) wife and I a while to convince him that it wasn't cool here to use the handicapped spots if you're not actually handicapped.

I had a coworker that did exactly that. No amount of convincing would change her mind. Not even the sup' would do anything about it. She kept parking in the handicap slot right up until the day she was laid off.