Ford is better?

[Dartful Dodger]

(I'm just talking about American car companies)


GM is screwed.  They were talking about closing production for three weeks a year and now there is talk about closing down for good. 

What the heck? How did Chevy lose to Ford?

Corvette, Camero, Chevelle and even the Vega were perfect cars.

The turd was the Corvair and even that's still a great car.

What's Ford known for?
The Mustang and the GT(which nobody owns).

I'm a Dodge guy, and I'm not suprised Mopar lost to Ford, but Chevy!!!

All the car guys I know own Chevys, yet Ford is beating them. 

Whose buying all these Fords?

[Cakemeister]

I'm guessing that Ford has better contracts with the unions.

[massive88]

I would guess Explorers and Focuses dominate Blazers and Cavaliers (Cobalts?) as they are much better products.

[Zero_Hour]

(I'm just talking about American car companies)
GM is screwed.  They were talking about closing production for three weeks a year and now there is talk about closing down for good. 
What the heck? How did Chevy lose to Ford?
Corvette, Camero, Chevelle and even the Vega were perfect cars.
The turd was the Corvair and even that's still a great car.

Well the Vette isn't exactly affordable for the masses, and the Camero sputtered out only to be revived this year. Everything else - Aveo, Cobalt, HHR, Impala, Malibu? Meh.

What's Ford known for?
The Mustang and the GT(which nobody owns).
I'm a Dodge guy, and I'm not suprised Mopar lost to Ford, but Chevy!!!
All the car guys I know own Chevys, yet Ford is beating them. 
Whose buying all these Fords?

Well, I own 2 currently. A 2001 Escort 2 door, and an 05 Mustang. I know there are a lot of Ford haters, and I don't doubt they have good reasons, but these 2 vehicles are my first experience with Fords. I've got about 100,000 miles between the 2 of them, and have never had to do anything beyond oil changes and a new set of tires on the Escort, and a new Battery for the Mustang (not uncommon for Phoenix, AZ). I've got nothing but good to say about my experience. Frankly, I treat the escort like a red-headed step child, and all it does is run without issue.

Ford is winning (as much as you can consider a %40 decline in sales winning), because they actually prepared for the downturn in the market before it completely tanked. Got their financial house in order, have been cutting back production & jobs, and negotiating for concession from the UAW - oh, and they didn't take bailout money. It's speculated that if the market stays down long enough, Ford may have to come asking, but I credit them with having smart enough leadership that they've weathered the storm thus far.

Chrysler hasn't made a car I liked since the 70's, and the only GM nameplates I'd really consider (Corvette or Caddy) are in a price range where I'd probably be buying a European competitor if I was spending that kind of money.

[pinballwizard79]

more liquidity than your competitor = outliving the competition

outliving the competition = being the only guy left

being the only guy left = that sucks for consumers

Oh well, it is what it is

[Dartful Dodger]

I guess I've been out of the Chevy loop for a while.
The Malibu was a 4 door Chevelle so I assumed it still has some meat to it.  I had friends who had Cavalairs that wouldn't die, but I'm not sure how the Cobalt holds up to that Chevy rep.

As an only American motorcycle company Harley isn't that bad of a company, in fact they  make motorcycles Americans want to ride(but can’t afford to buy).

An American car company needs to make cars that can drive through a brick wall and go from 0-60 in under a second and I don't see Ford producing those kinds of cars.  I see Ford as building dependable everyday drivers, which is I guess what America is becoming.

There’s one American motorcycle company that's  quasi-competition for Harley.  I guess it would be pretty cool if the collapse of GM brings about an Indian-ish company making cars, heck if Indian started making cars I’d wet myself. 

I don't want to live in a country were Ford is king.

[Zero_Hour]

I had friends who had Cavalairs that wouldn't die, but I'm not sure how the Cobalt holds up to that Chevy rep.

Mentioning that car makes me think I know exactly where GM went so horribly wrong...

Chevy = Cavalier
Buick = Skyhawk (You Mom's Cavalier)
Pontiac = Sunbird (A "Sporty" Cavalier)
Oldsmobile = Firenza (Not Your Father's Cavalier)
Cadillac = Cimarron (A Luxury Cavalier!? The mind boggles)

5 cars, (I'm not counting the 7 or so foreign variants) all based on the same platform, that (at least in the mid-late 80's) looked damn near the same. Aside from Engine Upgrades on some models (and significantly fancier trim on the Caddy), these were largely Marketing exercises. GM should have consolidated their various marquees 20 years ago.

[TOK]

There’s one American motorcycle company that's  quasi-competition for Harley.  I guess it would be pretty cool if the collapse of GM brings about an Indian-ish company making cars, heck if Indian started making cars I’d wet myself. 

Are you forgetting about Victory/Polaris? They're way bigger than Indian.

Ford beat Chevy by having better, more varied mainstream vehicles. The Edge is so much more compelling than the Equinox. Have a Camaro in Transformers and the new ZR-1 is great, but they probably sell 10,000 mainstream cars for every ZR-1 or Z-06. Ford also seems to always win in the truck market.

Some stuff I can't explain. I really like the Malibu and the Fusion and Taurus look like what you get when you ask an 8 year old to draw a car.

[TOK]

I could barely afford the payments when I got it, but it's been paid for a couple years and the damn thing looks good and runs fine.    My friends with similar vintage Dodge and Chevy trucks?  No such luck.  I haven't met too many people willing to pay a $10k premium to drive a Toyota or Nissan truck.

Its kind of funny that you mention this, because I have 3 trucks. My two personal trucks are a Nissan and Toyota pickups, and my work truck is a E250 van. I was very biased against domestics from a bad experience when I bought my vehicles, but Nissan and Toyota don't make "real" vans.
I haven't really had problems with any of them, but the Ford has won me over. It has about 105,000 miles on it now, has never stranded me anywhere and often has to idle for hours a day to run an inverter in areas with no power.

It has needed a coil pack and just had a coolant leak fixed. If I was pickup shopping today, an F-150 would be the first truck I looked at, not the last.

[ChadTower]

I'll be driving it until the wheels fall off. 

I almost bought one last year but couldn't stomach the mpg.

[shmokes]

Chevy hasn't made good cars in ages.  And the Corvette and Camero have almost without fail been ---smurfing--- ugly in all their years.  They proudly continue this long tradition.

As has already been pointed out, Ford has the Escort, Explorer, Expedition and their line of pickup trucks -- not just the Mustang and GT.  Tehy also enjoyed astronomical success with the Taurus back before the Symphony of Ovals.  The Thunderbird also comes to mind.

I'm not big on Fords, but Chevy?  Meh . . . hasn't been relevant in ages.

[HaRuMaN]

And the Corvette and Camero have almost without fail been ---smurfing--- ugly in all their years.

Wut?

You call this ugly?

[RayB]

Wow, $19.95 for a Corvette. That's a great deal.

Ford Focus is cheap and uses a Mazda engine. So you get affordability with the reliability of the japanese engine. Between that and the F-150, that's pretty much how you stay on top. Every car maker needs that mass market model. Honda has the Civic. Toyota the... uh... name escapes me. I can't even think what GM or Chevy has...  Grand Prix maybe?

[mpm32]

Although not dying, they are still hurting;

DEARBORN, Mich. - Ford Motor Co. reported a first-quarter loss of $1.4 billion Friday and said it depleted less of its cash, emphasizing that it doesn’t expect to seek any of the government assistance that is keeping the rest of the Detroit Three alive.

The nation’s second-largest automaker said it spent $3.7 billion more than it took in during the first three months of the year, far less than the $7.2 billion it spent in the fourth quarter of 2008.

[Dartful Dodger]

Every car maker needs that mass market model.

Not Chevy, Chevy didn't even try to sell outside of the Americas.

All their cars, even the economy ones,  had that "screw you" attitude about them.

[HaRuMaN]

Breaking News:

Struggling General Motors says it will kill off the Pontiac line as part of its restructuring, source tells CNNMoney.com.

[shmokes]

Wut?

You call this ugly?

No.  The very old Corvettes were beautiful.  But anything made since (and including) the Stingray is ---smurfing--- ugly.  Anymore it just looks like a little wedge with a bubble on top.  They're so ugly.  But yeah . . . old ones are great.  It's just that you have to go WAY back to find any good ones.

[shmokes]

Breaking News:

Struggling General Motors says it will kill off the Pontiac line as part of its restructuring, source tells CNNMoney.com.

Yay!!!  They're killing a company that has, with the exception of the Solstice, not made an attractive car in at least 30 years.

[Dartful Dodger]

Pontiac gave up a long time ago, they didn't even bother to name their cars. They'd just call them all G#.

[TOK]

Pontiac gave up a long time ago, they didn't even bother to name their cars. They'd just call them all G#.

I think they were trying to emulate European naming conventions. Thats the market GM envisioned Pontiac attracting, though its almost laughable to think someone looking at a 3 Series BMW is going to be comparing it to a G6.

I have to admit I'm a bit bummed by the Pontiac news if its true. The G8 GXP is a cool car that I'd still consider attainable. I really can't justify a 2 door car at this point in my life. I think they would kill Buick first, since the typical Buick buyer is probably buying their last new car.

[CCM]

I've always had good luck with Chevy/GM.  I've owned 7 vehicles in my life and only 2 of them have been non GM or Chevy, and I had problems with both of them, one Dodge and one Ford.  I currently have a Trailblazer SS and I love it.

[danny_galaga]

Every car maker needs that mass market model.

Not Chevy, Chevy didn't even try to sell outside of the Americas.

and i think you've just answered your question...

[TOK]

Every car maker needs that mass market model.

Not Chevy, Chevy didn't even try to sell outside of the Americas.

and i think you've just answered your question...

GM may have focused Chevy on North America, but they've been sharing international platforms for years. The latest Malibu is the Epsilon platform. The same car with revised styling is sold as an Opel, Vauxhall, Saab (9-3) and even as a European only market Cadillac.

The Camaro and Corvette are probably their only two cars that are the same in the world market as the US.

[SavannahLion]

Breaking News:

Struggling General Motors says it will kill off the Pontiac line as part of its restructuring, source tells CNNMoney.com.

I've been racking my head on this one. How does killing off a brand name like Pontiac help with restructuring and saving money? Even Lee Iacocca mentioned somewhere that a car company with too many badges isn't going to do well. How does this work? I understand that badges like Mustang, Corvette, etc are cars within their own rights, but the bread and butter cars are all just re-badged. Take that watchamacallit Volkswagon van. Isn't that van just a rebadged van of like five other models across as many manufacturers?

I know those assembly lines can't shift production in a fortnight. But it's not like letting a brand go dormant for like... five years is going to cause any harm. Isn't that what Ford did to the Thunderbird line? They let it suck so bad that they just let the name lie dormant for about five years then introduced a whole new model harking back to the original designs.

So how is killing off a line any better than just letting it lie dormant and not produce anything under that name for a few years?

[shmokes]

Just think of the dealerships alone.  I don't know how it all works, but I imagine running a car dealership is similar to running other franchises.  Let's say, to pull ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of thin air, that the owner of the dealership is required to pay a franchise fee, have certain minimum levels of cash reserves, and maintain a certain minimum ratio of new to used cars.  In return, GM has to provide all kinds of support to the dealership, not the least of which being a certain minimum number of new models of vehicle every year.  They also have to advertise the brand.  They also presumably have to do thousands of other things that don't immediately come to mind -- running a NASCAR racing team to promote the brand.  And all the stuff pinballjim is talking about. 

And think about it.  If the Pontiac brand is already junk, it's only going to get worse if they ignore it altogether and let every unique model die, selling only rebranded stuff.  Plus I wouldn't be surprised if their franchise agreements don't allow them to do that.  I'd be PISSED if I owned a Pontiac dealership and GM decided that they were going to stop Pontiac R&D altogether and just rebrand stuff from their other lines instead.  Of course, I suppose I'd be pissed about them killing the brand altogether, but that's another story, I suppose.

Anyway . . . I'm just musing.  I don't know anything about it.

[danny_galaga]

they are definitely saving tangibly on letting pontica go. production for the car that was supposed to be the G8 or something is being canned here. instant savings...

[ChadTower]

Isn't that what Ford did to the Thunderbird line? They let it suck so bad that they just let the name lie dormant for about five years then introduced a whole new model harking back to the original designs.

The 90s Thunderbirds were good cars.  A little too Monte Carlo like for some people but I had one and it was fast, handled well, and stood up to getting broadsided by a teenager on the phone going 50mph in a 30 zone.  Had my wife been in a smaller car she'd be dead right now and maybe my son too.  I was really disappointed when they went back to the little sports car model - note that you almost never see any of them on the road now.

[shardian]

The 90s Thunderbirds were good cars.  A little too Monte Carlo like for some people but I had one and it was fast, handled well, and stood up to getting broadsided by a teenager on the phone going 50mph in a 30 zone.  Had my wife been in a smaller car she'd be dead right now and maybe my son too.  I was really disappointed when they went back to the little sports car model - note that you almost never see any of them on the road now.

The 'new' Thunderbird was a pile of poo packaged in a name brand handbag.

Those 90's T-birds were nice in the performance category, but looked like any other car on the road.

[ChadTower]

Those 90's T-birds were nice in the performance category, but looked like any other car on the road.

I liked the fact that it looked mostly normal.  I have no interest in a "sports car".  That is why I chose the Thunderbird - didn't feel like getting pulled over because my car looks fast.

[shmokes]

I love those new Thunderbirds.  If I was over 50 I'd get one in a heartbeat.  Seriously.  Well, I've never been inside one, or even looked at the interior, but I think the design is really nice.  But they're definitely for middle-age and up.

[ChadTower]

After driving one once it was also very obvious they're not for anyone who might ever have to drive it in inclement weather and for someone who has the garage space to dedicate.