BYD autos

[danny_galaga]

very exciting stuff from china

http://www.byd.com/



they are selling their plug in hybrid later this year. in two years in the US. The US have really missed the mark with this sort of tech. dragged their feet. but at least they had a go. the europeans didnt even bother in my opinion, even with fuel twice that of the US. wasted a bit of time with useless hydrogen tech...

the Chinese are just getting on with it. So thats more stuff we will have to buy from there because western countries just cant be bothered. good on the chinese, they deserve the success. warren buffett thinks so too, he just bought a 9% stake in BYD...

[SavannahLion]

I think there's going to be some interesting issues arising from selling BYD cars in the U.S.

Obama stated in one of his addresses that he did not want the U.S. to be leveraging battery technology from China. I assume, in a roundabout way, he's basically saying we need to stop or reduce buying imports from China. So if BYD attempts to sell their car here, with job market collapsing, the economy headed out the door and the current administration in office, will we even see this car at all?

Then there's China's habit of not actually complying with a number of environmental safety controls and occupational hazards. Lead paints in children toys, employees knee deep in mercury powder and Guiyu.

Clearly, if Warren Buffett is investing money in this company, then there's something there worth looking in to. I'm just wondering if the rest of the U.S. is going to look at it the same way.

How the hell do you buy stocks from China anyhow? Doesn't the country have some sort of restriction on foreign investors?

[ChadTower]

Obama stated in one of his addresses that he did not want the U.S. to be leveraging battery technology from China. I assume, in a roundabout way, he's basically saying we need to stop or reduce buying imports from China.

What he's saying is that he doesn't want to trade one foreign dependence for another - and this one to a country that already has a mortgage lien on the US to begin with.  We'd be jumping of the frying pan and into the fire and for this one item I agree with him.

[TOK]

Go to google and search for crashtests on Chinese cars.
If you hit anything bigger than a garbage can in these crapwagons, they're going to have bury you in it, because they won't be able to pry you out.

[hypernova]

They can't even make a $10 child's toy function the way it's intended.

Ford, etc. move aside.  Anything from China in the way of the auto will dwarf your recall numbers.

[shmokes]

They make all your computers, ipods, phones, iPphones and TVs.  Something tells me that the Chinese know a thing or two about quality manufacturing with tight tolerances in addition to manufacturing garbage. 

[TOK]

They make all your computers, ipods, phones, iPphones and TVs.  Something tells me that the Chinese know a thing or two about quality manufacturing with tight tolerances in addition to manufacturing garbage. 

The only good passable they make are designed elsewhere and assembled there for cheap labor.
Every single Chinese car is hideous.

[shmokes]

You're telling me that Asus and MSI and Gigabyte aren't designing their own motherboards?  Lenovo isn't designing its own laptops (some of the best laptops in the world, for that matter)?

[ChadTower]

The argument isn't capability it is actual production.  A motherboard isn't built to withstand a 35mph collision.  The Chinese could build safer cars but likely won't. 

[TOK]

You're telling me that Asus and MSI and Gigabyte aren't designing their own motherboards?  Lenovo isn't designing its own laptops (some of the best laptops in the world, for that matter)?

No, I wasn't telling you that. I was telling you Chinese cars are hunks of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
I think your ability to stick to the point was made in China.

[TOK]

Consumer electronics aren't cars. In German, but lowest possible rating in crash test. This is considered one of the premier Chinese cars for export.
You'll die in this one in a 40mph crash, not 25. 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9RbZyrJQ4g&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kQGAK550LE&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVwmuQqN46g&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[hyiu]

I think give China some time... and soon or later, they will manage to catch up...

but until I got solid proof that they make their cars right... I'm not going to buy it....

I saw those crash test videos some time ago... there's another chinese made suv crash test too...
its deadly...

[danny_galaga]

They can't even make a $10 child's toy function the way it's intended.

Ford, etc. move aside.  Anything from China in the way of the auto will dwarf your recall numbers.

so what are you typing that message out on?

[boykster]

You're telling me that Asus and MSI and Gigabyte aren't designing their own motherboards?  Lenovo isn't designing its own laptops (some of the best laptops in the world, for that matter)?

Last time I checked, Taiwan isn't "China" as we know/think of China.  Lenovo is a Chinese company, but MSI, Asus, and Gigabyte are Taiwanese. 

Sure, mainland China would LOVE to claim Taiwan, and yes, Taiwan is also known as Republic of China, but Taiwan is more like S. Korea when it comes to their quality and manufacturing. 

I'm guessing it will be about a decade before we see any autos from China being comparable to what is on the road RIGHT NOW.  That's how it was with the Koreans - one review of a Hyundai Sonata back in the early 90's read that the Sonata was a comparable to a Toyota Corrolla - from 1982.  It took Hyundai a good solid decade before their cars caught up.

[shmokes]

Taiwan is part of China, IMO.  Mainland China wouldn't just LOVE to claim Taiwan.  They DO claim Taiwan, and Taiwan will not declare independence (if they did they'd have the Chinese army there in a heartbeat).  The U.S. does not recognize Taiwan as an independent state.  Taiwan was a founding member of the UN and had a permanent seat on the Security Council.  They are no longer a member and mainland China holds that seat.  Taiwan ought at least declare independence before you declare it for them.  I recognize that there's room to for argument, but it's probably not worthwhile.  Afterall, we do have Lenovo and a bazillion other things like other every other laptop in the world and other electronics like the iPhone being manufactured on the mainland.

And I wouldn't hesitate to say it'll be ten years before China is a significant competitor in the US market.  But think about it.   Ten years?  That's a blink of an eye for a foreign company to break into our auto industry like that.  If they can do it in ten years it would be astounding and nothing short of a phenomenal success.

[TOK]

Hyundai very nearly failed in the US market, and that was with cars using Mitsubishi engines.
They offered a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty to try to build faith in the cars, and that sold them to people who wanted cheap cars and were only willing to buy them with a good warranty.
The cars really didn't get good until the last 5 years or so.

Isuzu and Dihatsu both failed in the US market. China makes cars that are nowhere close in quality to either.
The way the market is now, the cars have to be great when they come here or they won't make it. Every Chinese car I've seen is like Yugo equivalent.

Low prices sell, but not in the absence of all quality, and definitely no sacrificing safety.
The safest Chinese cars do worse in crash tests than the worst cars currently sold in the US, even tiny cars like the Smart.

[danny_galaga]

You're telling me that Asus and MSI and Gigabyte aren't designing their own motherboards?  Lenovo isn't designing its own laptops (some of the best laptops in the world, for that matter)?

Last time I checked, Taiwan isn't "China" as we know/think of China.  Lenovo is a Chinese company, but MSI, Asus, and Gigabyte are Taiwanese. 

Sure, mainland China would LOVE to claim Taiwan, and yes, Taiwan is also known as Republic of China, but Taiwan is more like S. Korea when it comes to their quality and manufacturing. 

I'm guessing it will be about a decade before we see any autos from China being comparable to what is on the road RIGHT NOW.  That's how it was with the Koreans - one review of a Hyundai Sonata back in the early 90's read that the Sonata was a comparable to a Toyota Corrolla - from 1982.  It took Hyundai a good solid decade before their cars caught up.

point is, you DID see korean cars in the US in the early 90's. there is no doubt in my mind you are going to have Chinese cars there very soon. They won't just sit around thinking 'oh, these aren't as good as such and such'. They'll make 'em, and learn and grow, like any other company. Hell, even Malaysia and Thailand are making cars now. I don't see why it's so hard to accept that China will be selling you cars. It's not cutting edge technology to build a car. The Chinese cars may have lower safety standards. That's because the CHINESE have lower safety standards. They will meet the requirements for export. I actually see this with Japanese cars would you believe. Some of the crap grey Jap imports we get into Australia were meant to go to less discerning countries. I've seen Toyota vans that would fail a crash test if hit by a bicycle...

[TOK]

Danny, would you consider Fiat, Peugeot and Alfa Romeo larger automotive players than Cherry?

Those brands all failed in the US market and don't sell here anymore (except in some shared low-end GM platforms, not complete cars). The Aussie market Monaro (GTO) lasted like 3 years here before being sent packing.
The Commodore (G8) seems to be well on its way to failing too. I'll be sorry to see that one go, I really like it.

The same thing could easily happen to any Chinese brand. So far, they're worse by an order of magnitude than every brand that has failed here. The US market is much more demanding than the world market.
Safety is a huge issue here, and people don't consider something unreliable a "value" regardless of how cheap it is. Nissan is selling a version of the Versa for under 10,000. That satisfies the cheapskate market and will still go 150,000 miles.

[ChadTower]

Danny, would you consider Fiat, Peugeot and Alfa Romeo larger automotive players than Cherry?

Those brands all failed in the US market and don't sell here anymore (except in some shared low-end GM platforms, not complete cars). The Aussie market Monaro (GTO) lasted like 3 years here before being sent packing.
The Commodore (G8) seems to be well on its way to failing too. I'll be sorry to see that one go, I really like it.

The same thing could easily happen to any Chinese brand. So far, they're worse by an order of magnitude than every brand that has failed here. The US market is much more demanding than the world market.
Safety is a huge issue here, and people don't consider something unreliable a "value" regardless of how cheap it is. Nissan is selling a version of the Versa for under 10,000. That satisfies the cheapskate market and will still go 150,000 miles.

Alpha Romeo failed because rather than try to sell regular cars they tried to outFerarri Ferarri with a car half as good.  Fail.

Fiat and Peugeot failed because no one here will buy something with a French name on it.  You couldn't get a $25 hooker into a Fiat.  Don't forget Renault - they actually put "Le Car" on their cars and expected to sell them in the US.   

[Hoopz]

REDUCE THAT RESOLUTION NOOB!!!

[ChadTower]

It's a linked image... what, you think I have my own Le Car sitting around to photograph?   

[shmokes]

point is, you DID see korean cars in the US in the early 90's.

Oh, Hyundai is still here and doing very well.

[TOK]

Alfa never sold anything here remotely competing with Ferrari. Don't even know if they've made anything that could compete with a Ferrari in the last 40 years. The 164 was the last car they were selling here, which was a 4 door with a V6.

Renault were just junk cars. Its got a canvas roof on it. The Fuego was a stylish version of that piece of crap.

[ChadTower]

Alfa never sold anything here remotely competing with Ferrari. Don't even know if they've made anything that could compete with a Ferrari in the last 40 years. The 164 was the last car they were selling here, which was a 4 door with a V6.

And yet they were marketed as such...  Alfa Romeo:  "this is why you fail".  Probably would have sold as a mid range sports car but that's not the market they wanted.

[HaRuMaN]

REDUCE THAT RESOLUTION NOOB!!!

buy a bigger monitor... and fix your caps lock while you're at it

[Hoopz]

mY cAps LOCk is FINE!

I'm gonna paste a link to the longest damn ebay auction I can find just to piss everybody off.   


 

[ChadTower]

The more I look at the Le Car the more I sorta want one.  Paint that sucker black with purple accents... some undercarraige lights, LED rims... an 18" sub in the back... 

[TOK]

Alfa never sold anything here remotely competing with Ferrari. Don't even know if they've made anything that could compete with a Ferrari in the last 40 years. The 164 was the last car they were selling here, which was a 4 door with a V6.

And yet they were marketed as such...  Alfa Romeo:  "this is why you fail".  Probably would have sold as a mid range sports car but that's not the market they wanted.

I don't remember that at all. They were shooting for Jaguars market.

[shmokes]

The more I look at the Le Car the more I sorta want one.  Paint that sucker black with purple accents... some undercarraige lights, LED rims... an 18" sub in the back... 

There is something kind of awesome about it.  Like Plan 9 From Outer Space. 

[danny_galaga]

point is, you DID see korean cars in the US in the early 90's.

Oh, Hyundai is still here and doing very well.

zachary. I'm old enough to remember when everyone used to refer to japanese cars as 'bloody jap crap'. japanese cars were considered inferior. Then it was Koreas turn. And i was one of those saying how crappy they were. But after time (ablink of an eye with the Korean cars) they improved. I think the same could happen with Chinese cars. It's snobbery that assumes somehow no one but your own country can build good cars. I feel that way about Indian and Malaysian cars right now. But Mercedes have plants in India...

About the french cars. That's a mystery about the american market i only realised in the last year or so. They sell ok here in Australia, even though we are less than 10% the population of the US. They build quality, stylish cars. I think maybe the US has a problem with too many entrepreneurs in the car market. Someone mentioned Le Car for instance. I don't believe that ever made it here. Or the Yugo 

Australian cars only last in the US while theres a special niche, like the Monaro. Price of labour here is quite high, and when the exchange rate gets closer to parity, you can't sell Australian cars in the US. Our dollar has dropped again, so if it stays below say 75 cents US, you may well see Aussie cars in the US again. Only problem being we are good at building big cars. So is the US, and less people are buying them...

But my main point was that BYD are filling an important niche that needs to be looked at- the plug in hybrid. Will GM ever do it? They are talking about bankruptcy. I'm sure the first thing to go will be R & D on 'futuristic' ideas. The Chinese are happy to do the R & D, so why shouldn't they reap the rewards? Asia is where it's at for cars. First Japan, then Korea. I believe China is in asia somewhere...

[danny_galaga]

just an update. byd are mentioned again in this story:

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/994/The-Cars-You-ll-Drive-In-2014

[RayB]

It took Hyundai about 15 years to improve their quality (remember the Pony? It would rust to pieces within just a couple years). Here we are 20 years later, some say they are good, yet my mechanic still recommends NOT buying a Hyundai, and definitely not Kia.

Thing is, Fords are not much better than either of those.

[LLUncoolJ]

My mom had a LeCar...white with a black canvas sunroof. It was one of a long line of crap-tacular cars she owned in the 80's and early 90's.

Other highlights were:

• a Dodge Ram 50 pickup that came standard WITHOUT a rear bumper. Just a big jagged hole
• a Pontiac LeMars - nothing in particularly bad about this, except that it was a Pontiac...which means it was made of plastic and at any time your crappy plastic bumper could fly off going down the highway and glance harmlessly off someone's windshield
• a Chevy Corsica, which everytime I came home from college, I had to go down to the hood and buy at least one new hub cap

[TOK]

My mom had a LeCar...white with a black canvas sunroof. It was one of a long line of crap-tacular cars she owned in the 80's and early 90's.

Other highlights were:

• a Dodge Ram 50 pickup that came standard WITHOUT a rear bumper. Just a big jagged hole
• a Pontiac LeMars - nothing in particularly bad about this, except that it was a Pontiac...which means it was made of plastic and at any time your crappy plastic bumper could fly off going down the highway and glance harmlessly off someone's windshield
• a Chevy Corsica, which everytime I came home from college, I had to go down to the hood and buy at least one new hub cap

That Pontiac was actually a Daewoo.

[LLUncoolJ]

My mom had a LeCar...white with a black canvas sunroof. It was one of a long line of crap-tacular cars she owned in the 80's and early 90's.

Other highlights were:

• a Dodge Ram 50 pickup that came standard WITHOUT a rear bumper. Just a big jagged hole
• a Pontiac LeMars - nothing in particularly bad about this, except that it was a Pontiac...which means it was made of plastic and at any time your crappy plastic bumper could fly off going down the highway and glance harmlessly off someone's windshield
• a Chevy Corsica, which everytime I came home from college, I had to go down to the hood and buy at least one new hub cap

That Pontiac was actually a Daewoo.

That explains why it had less plastic than other Pontiacs.

[boykster]

Fiat and Peugeot failed because no one here will buy something with a French name on it.  You couldn't get a $25 hooker into a Fiat.  Don't forget Renault - they actually put "Le Car" on their cars and expected to sell them in the US.   

Funny, last time I checked, Fiat was an Italian company 

[danny_galaga]

while all those observations about peugot and fiat and hyundai are fantastic, it doesnt address the fact that none of the companies mentioned are about to make a plug in hybrid. GM dragged their feet, but now theyre boned...

[shardian]

Plug-in-hybrids are not magically green. The hippies need to stop deluding themselves. Where the hell do they think that energy is coming from when they plug that thing in? Being 'green' really just boils down to people not wanting to be a direct 'end user' of pollution. It is still happening, but now it falls on those big, bad, mean, evil corporations that they can wave torches and pitchforks at. Oh, but that's okay - those mean corporate baddies can pass the buck too by buying carbon credits.
What an f'ing joke all around.

[TOK]

while all those observations about peugot and fiat and hyundai are fantastic, it doesnt address the fact that none of the companies mentioned are about to make a plug in hybrid. GM dragged their feet, but now theyre boned...

China will probably do more damage to the environment producing hybrids than will be prevented by driving them.
 
GM may have been short-sighted in a changing market, but when they produce a hybrid it won't be a death-trap made by an unregulated company belching pollution into the air and water so some smug dummy in Berkley can pretend they're saving the world.
 

[LLUncoolJ]

Plug-in-hybrids are not magically green. The hippies need to stop deluding themselves. Where the hell do they think that energy is coming from when they plug that thing in? Being 'green' really just boils down to people not wanting to be a direct 'end user' of pollution. It is still happening, but now it falls on those big, bad, mean, evil corporations that they can wave torches and pitchforks at. Oh, but that's okay - those mean corporate baddies can pass the buck too by buying carbon credits.
What an f'ing joke all around.

Logic has no place here...only emotions. Ask any hippie or Cub fan.