NPs Star Wars

[Neverending Project]

I picked up one of my grail machines this weekend, Star Wars. Based on a couple of conversations and a crappy Craigslist picture, I decided it was worth it to make the long trek with hopes of adding it to my game room. It turned out to be in great shape, and although it is not quite working yet I am hoping it won't be too complicated of a fix.



I am listing this in the Restorations forum, but there really isn't much to restore. The cabinet is in great shape, save the few nicks and scratches typical of a machine this old. The marquee has some cracking where it makes the bends, and the controller can probably stand to be rebuilt. But other than that cosmetically, she's a beauty!



It powers up to a blank screen, but you can start a game and hear the game play just fine. I haven't had a chance to check any of the boards, but the guy I bought it from told me occasionally it will show a squashed image in a quarter of the screen. He also told me that there was no spot killer LED on, although I have not checked personally.

I am very excited to own this. It went straight into my game room, while the other acquisition (720°) went to the garage for some repair work. Hopefully the force will be strong with this one (cheesy I know, but it just came out).

Some more pics...



(both sides are in equally good shape)

[TelcoLou]

Congrats! She's a beauty!!! 

[FrizzleFried]

Amplifone or WG monitor?

She's in nice shape.

[Level42]

Nice ! Saw the road-trip pics, I love them, I always love road-trip pics, why not post some here ?

Get a special offer yoke kit from David while you can....

If Amplifone, red HVT ?

[WunderCade]

@Level42....notice something about the blue on the cab?

Most of the artwork appears to match your Irish blue. But the yoke artwork blue appears to match the repro, so the US version has both shades of blue I guess.

[TheShanMan]

Congrats NP! Looks very nice.

[Neverending Project]

It's a Wells Gardner, and I am not sure of its working state.

So far, I have given the entire machine a good wipe down, and taken a magic eraser to the CP and the marquee - it really restores some of the brightness to the colors. Then I took each fuse out to test it in a multimeter (they were all good). The coin counter has about 50K clicks on it.

I am at a bit of a loss as to where to start. There is so much info out there it is a bit overwhelming. I think I need to check voltages first, but need to figure out where to check. I haven't removed the PCB cage yet. When I picked it up, it was able to start a game and play blind. Now it won't start (the only thing I did was remove and replace the fuses). It would be nice to have a test rig to rule out whether the monitor or the boards are a problem first. But I don't.

[Level42]

I don't have a test-rig either but still got some SW's working.

It's not magic. First: did you move the test-switch maybe ? This could be a cause for the game sounds not coming up. Or you may have to credit it first.

Next step: read the WG6100 faq.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Monitors/FAQ%20Wells%20Gardner%206100%20Version%201.0%20dated%201%20Mar%2002.pdf

Then put it away for a day, and read it again.

Then start working on it

[Neverending Project]

OK, I have been afraid of this thing too long - time to start. I have poured over megabytes of information and faqs and manuals, and to be honest I don't really know where to start. Here is what I know:

When I bought the game it played blind (you could hear the game start by adding credits with the aux. credit button. No picture came on the monitor but the guy told me that sometimes it would show up in 1/4 of the screen. The spot killer was not lit. I loaded it into a van on it's back strapped down tight, and drove for 240 miles (that's 386 km to you European folk  ).

When I got her to her new home, she would not play blind, and now the spot killer is lit. So I am not sure whether to start with checking the boards or the monitor, or how. I checked the fuses with a meter and they all tested OK. But I pulled them out to test, so maybe I broke a fuse when I popped it out?

I checked the test points on the ARII board. I think they all look good. The -5 and +10 are right on. The +10.3 unregulated is at about 13, +22 and -22 are around +23 and -23, and the 36VAC is right at 36 (measured across the two test points, not to ground).

And if I turn the screen knob all the way up, I do get a nice large blue dot in the center of the monitor. So that tells me the flyback is working, correct?

So, what exactly should I do?

Help me any-wan, you're my only hope. (what, I thought I was supposed to leave quotes since it's a SW repair thread)

[RetroACTIVE]

"With the blast shield down, I can't even see, how am I supposed to fight?" 

[m_mcgover]

Turn the brightness down so you don't burn a whole in the center of your monitor.  In fact, if it is not "playing blind" you may want to unplug the monitor while you debug the game board.

I would recheck the fuses in circuit (with power off) by placing your meter probes on the holders as opposed to the fuses so you can verify continuity through the fuse and the holder.

I would also check that:
1) You didn't accidentally switch the game into test mode (maybe if you were cleaning the plate with the counter,  volume control, etc.

If the fuses are all good, then I would take a moment to check how the connectors look to the game boards.  Remove the connector and look into it to make sure the pins all look to be in good shape and not bent out of the way (I had a Warlords that behaved badly because one of the internal pins of the edge connector had been bent and was making contact to a neighboring pin.  If they look good, reseat the connector and try to power it back up with the monitor unplugged.

2) recheck the voltages on the AR2

Do they still look good?

[Level42]

I would also check that:
1) You didn't accidentally switch the game into test mode (maybe if you were cleaning the plate with the counter,  volume control, etc.

That's what I said before and should be the very first check to make.

[Neverending Project]

I should mention that I did try both positions of the test switch. Am I correct in remembering that on boot it is silent until you add coins? Or will it be silent until I start a game?

[Level42]

Depends. If it's set on free-play it will boot up with "May the force be with you" right away.  If not, you'll have to credit it to hear that.

Something to check after transport: the interconnection board between the three PCB's.

[Neverending Project]

OK, I re-checked the fuses on the clips and they all test good. I re-seated the PCB edge connectors on both ends of the board and checked the wire harness connectors as well. I also re-seated the molex connectors on the ARII board. I powered it up and checked both switch positions, turning the volume knob in both directions. I still get the spot killer on, and no playing blind.

I un-plugged the monitor and re-checked all the ARII test points. I still get -5.05V, +12.2V, and +/-23. Nothing changed.

If I listen closely to the speakers, I can hear some faint garbagy noise, but no talking or game sounds. To check the PCB test points, can I just pull the PCB boards out of the chassis and set them on something non conductive (like a board)? I mean they are still completely connected after I pull them out, right?

[Level42]

Yes the boards should stay connected after pulling it out of the cage, but keep an eye on the interconnect board.  And sure you can run it like you suggest.

What do the thee LED's do on the main board ? They should be lit for a second or two and then go off.

[Neverending Project]

Yes the boards should stay connected after pulling it out of the cage, but keep an eye on the interconnect board.  And sure you can run it like you suggest.

What do the thee LED's do on the main board ? They should be lit for a second or two and then go off.

I'll try the test points on the PCB set next. But I have noticed through the cage that the LEDs stay lit while there is power. They do not go out, like you suggest.

[Level42]

Sounds like the main board CPU is not running to me. Not to dispare you, but that could be about anything.

You'll need this if you want to do any furhter investigations:
http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/Star_Wars/Star_Wars_SP-225_1st_Printing_Troubleshooting_Guide.pdf

[Neverending Project]

OK, I dove in to try out my comprehension skills with the trouble-shooting guide. First up, I pulled the PCBs out and checked all the voltages I could find. Everything looked good. Next I disconnected the sound board and was on the hunt for all the various clocks so I could test them with my logic probe. After hunting for a while, I noticed that the three LEDs on the main PCB were no longer lit. I cycled the power power on the machine and sure enough they lit briefly, and then went out - as expected.

So I rushed to the front of the machine to see it it would play blind. I didn't hear anything, and couldn't get it to coin up. I tried different positions on the test switch, but still no voice. The main PCBs were still not lit (e.g. good). That's when I realized that I still hadn't reconnected the sound board. So I reconnected it, and rushed back to the front.

Now I hear a bunch of strange test tones, and realize that the game must be in test mode. I flip the switch, check the LEDs (still good) and try to coin up a game. SUCCESS! It plays blind again. I guess in all the PCB disconnecting and reconnecting, I must have re-seated something that wasn't making a good connection before.

So I still can't see anything, but the spot killer is off. Now this is when I realize that I had disconnected the monitor previously. I reconnect it, power up the game, check the PCB LEDs (still good), and check the spot killer (NOT lit). Nice. The game still plays, but it is blind. THere is nothing to be seen on the monitor, but I can hear the crackling.

Phew. This is a big relief that the boards are working. Now I can focus on trouble-shooting the monitor. I will get a kit from bob roberts - any recommendation on which kit I should get? Or should I wait and do a little trouble-shooting first?

[Level42]

Something to check after transport: the interconnection board between the three PCB's.

 


It really comes loose relatively easy because of those large boards.

Congrats. Did you notice that all 16 beeps were hi-pitched ? If so, the basic tests are all passed.

Buy a LV6100 or LV2000. Get a cap-kit from bob including the transistors it's not that more expensive than without.
Check if the LED on the deflection board is on (I bet it is). If so, you're on the same path as Spyridon. Check all solderings and tracks around the connectors on the deflection board first.

[Neverending Project]

The thing is I did check the interconnection board. I took all three boards out and removed both interconnect boards. THen I reconnected them and still got nothing. It wasn't until the second time that things started working. So I did listen to you. 

The LED on the deflection board is not lit. Where do I check the HV on the monitor, is there a test point?

[ChadTower]

The thing is I did check the interconnection board. I took all three boards out and removed both interconnect boards. THen I reconnected them and still got nothing. It wasn't until the second time that things started working. So I did listen to you. 

The LED on the deflection board is not lit. Where do I check the HV on the monitor, is there a test point?

You turn off the lights and look at the neck... any orange glow?  Can you hear it ticking?  If no then no HV.

[Level42]

Slide your tongue under the HV cu.....ahh no, Chad's suggestion is better.

[Neverending Project]

Oh-bkay. I bused the b-toungue trick, and bnow my btongue is sor-buh. Whabt wibll mabke my-buh btongut feebl better?

Translation:
There is HV, as the neck glows and I hear ticking. What I meant to ask is where can I measure B+ so I can set it to 180 if it is too low?

[Level42]

Oh-bkay. I bused the b-toungue trick, and bnow my btongue is sor-buh. Whabt wibll mabke my-buh btongut feebl better?

Sounds like Jar-Jar at the podracer

Uhhh, I forgot.....have to check the manual for that.....

[Spyridon]

What I meant to ask is where can I measure B+ so I can set it to 180 if it is too low?

Pin 5 (orange wire) coming off the bottom connector (P900) of the HV cage is your B+ wire. It's easier to test it where it connects to the neckboard, though. Stick your red lead on that and your black lead on the monitor frame. You should have close to +180vdc. If you need to adjust it (if it's below 172 or higher than 188), you do so by turning a pot on the HV board. There is a hole in the top of the HV cage to stick a long screwdriver or adjustment tool down there, but I recommend removing the cage mesh for easier access. If you hit the wrong thing with a srewdriver tip, you'll short something out and maybe get zapped, too....

[Neverending Project]

 

Well, I thought I had HV, but measuring the B+ at the following locations only gives me between 2 and 3V (fluctuating).


So I guess it's back to the flowchart for me. Next step would be to turn up the brightness and contrast on the HV PCB and check for a dot. Although I know there is not +/- 28VDC on pins 1/8 of P900 already. I am thinking I will just install the cap kit when I get it and test again. Chances are if I were to find a defective part I would install all the replacements in the upgrade anyway, so I might as well save the trouble-shooting time now.

And thanks again for the help. There is so much information to absorb.

[Level42]

Did you also order a LV6100 or LV2000 ?

[Neverending Project]

Did you also order a LV6100 or LV2000 ?

Yeah, I sent an e-mail to Mark Spaeth but haven't heard back yet, and haven't had any luck hearing back from him in the past. If I don't hear from him soon, I will go ahead with the LV2000 (presuming I can find that one).

[Level42]

Yeah, I've been trying to contact Mark about an issue with the third SW/ESB kit I installed (doesn't work) but no luck. The irritating thing it that he _is_ posting on the KLOV forum (and yes I PMed him there too)......

And here's a good tip for finding the LV2000:

www.google.com




(OK OK:  http://www.geocities.com/jeffhendrix67/lv2000)


 

[RetroACTIVE]

I believe arcadeshop.com sells the Jeff Hendrix LV2000 as well.

[Neverending Project]

And here's a good tip for finding the LV2000:

www.google.com

I prefer:
http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/
 

I believe arcadeshop.com sells the Jeff Hendrix LV2000 as well.

Thank you.

[Neverending Project]

I am hoping that I will get to install my cap kit, rebuild parts and LV2000 board tonight. I was thinking it would be easiest to pull the monitor to work on it instead of pulling the boards separately. And in a quick search, it looks like the WG should be able to be pulled out from the back. But after looking at it, I can't see how this is possible. It is screwed in from the front. Anyone have any suggestions?

[RetroACTIVE]

Mine actually came out through the front.  It was real close to touching the speaker grille... but it did come out.

[Level42]

You're going to need the cover of that HV cage or else you'll get a wiggly picture...

[Neverending Project]

I got a lot done last night. I still didn't get everything installed, but first the short story and a couple of questions for those who don't want all the details.

Short Story

I have installed the LV2000 board, and most of the parts from the Bob Roberts Cap Kit and Additional Parts kit. R100 was badly burned in the lov-voltage section of the deflection board, which may have been the whole problem with the monitor. It got removed with the rest of the LV section, and the LV2000 went in its place. The wires are soldered to the chassis cage transistors, so I still need to replace these. Since they all came in the kit I plan on replacing them all, and I plan on soldering the wires back on.

Questions
In the WG documentation it lists a 33µF 160V cap for C905. Bob Roberts kit came with a 47µF 160V radial cap - not an axial cap like is required - but his documentation lists it as 33µF.  I just want to make sure that this is a mistake, and I should not use the 47µF, right? I mean the radial cap will barely stretch to fit the holes anyway since it is supposed to be axial.

Also, the WG document lists C901 & C901 as 100µF 50V caps, and so does the Bob Roberts documentation. But they are also listed as a recommended upgrade to 220µF 50V. I already replaced the existing 220µF with these new 100µF because it came with the kit and I thought the kit included all the upgrade parts. Should I remove these and get some 220µF caps to use, or leave the new 100µF caps in there per the Bob Roberts kit?

Read on for the long version of the story...

OK, now on to the details. Getting the monitor out was much more of an ordeal that I thought it would be. There was no way I could get the monitor out from the back of the cabinet, so I tried to get it out through the front. I took off the housing and removed the glass and bezel. I removed the bolts holding the monitor frame to the cabinet and tried to slowly take it out the front. It was so close, but ultimately the monitor kept running into the speaker grill. I considered removing the grill, but it looks like it is riveted on.

Finally I decided that I would be able to remove the tube separately, so that's what I did. I discharged it (using my home-made screwdriver/alligator clip tool) into the ground pin of a three-prong AC cord. Then I disconnected it and slowly removed the monitor from the frame out of the front of the cabinet. Next I couldn't get the chassis out from the front of the cabinet! I tried every which way I could manage, but the monitor shield kept getting in the way. I was about to remove the shield when I decided to give the back a try. After some more finagling I was able to lift the chassis forward, tilt it, and bring it out the back of the cabinet.

So for those of you still following, I had to remove the monitor tube out the front and the chassis out the back. I probably spent about an hour just removing the monitor. It was like a puzzle.

So on my workbench (kitchen table) I was able to install most of the parts from the kit(s). Next up is to get some thermal compound and install the chassis transistors.

I have another question... the kit came with replacement Q603/Q604/Q703/Q704 transistors. I do not suspect a problem with them, so I am considering not replacing them since they look like they are a bit of a pain to replace. do you think I should replace them anyway?

[RetroACTIVE]

In the WG documentation it lists a 33µF 160V cap for C905. Bob Roberts kit came with a 47µF 160V radial cap - not an axial cap like is required - but his documentation lists it as 33µF.  I just want to make sure that this is a mistake, and I should not use the 47µF, right? I mean the radial cap will barely stretch to fit the holes anyway since it is supposed to be axial.

Yes it should be an axial cap... I didn't end up using mine... I ended up getting the axial version.... you may still use the radial, as long as it makes the distance.

Also, the WG document lists C901 & C901 as 100µF 50V caps, and so does the Bob Roberts documentation. But they are also listed as a recommended upgrade to 220µF 50V. I already replaced the existing 220µF with these new 100µF because it came with the kit and I thought the kit included all the upgrade parts. Should I remove these and get some 220µF caps to use, or leave the new 100µF caps in there per the Bob Roberts kit?

Bob's kit for the most part replaces all caps back to factory values.  You'll be ok with those values.  The more important upgrades are included in his kit anyway.

I have another question... the kit came with replacement Q603/Q604/Q703/Q704 transistors. I do not suspect a problem with them, so I am considering not replacing them since they look like they are a bit of a pain to replace. do you think I should replace them anyway?

According to the FAQ these don't often fail... but I decided to replace mine anyway... this whole upgrade is a lot of work... the last thing I wanted to do is skip something and have it turn around and bite me in the but. 

[Neverending Project]

In the WG documentation it lists a 33µF 160V cap for C905. Bob Roberts kit came with a 47µF 160V radial cap - not an axial cap like is required - but his documentation lists it as 33µF.  I just want to make sure that this is a mistake, and I should not use the 47µF, right? I mean the radial cap will barely stretch to fit the holes anyway since it is supposed to be axial.

Yes it should be an axial cap... I didn't end up using mine... I ended up getting the axial version.... you may still use the radial, as long as it makes the distance.

Also, the WG document lists C901 & C901 as 100µF 50V caps, and so does the Bob Roberts documentation. But they are also listed as a recommended upgrade to 220µF 50V. I already replaced the existing 220µF with these new 100µF because it came with the kit and I thought the kit included all the upgrade parts. Should I remove these and get some 220µF caps to use, or leave the new 100µF caps in there per the Bob Roberts kit?

Bob's kit for the most part replaces all caps back to factory values.  You'll be ok with those values.  The more important upgrades are included in his kit anyway.

I have another question... the kit came with replacement Q603/Q604/Q703/Q704 transistors. I do not suspect a problem with them, so I am considering not replacing them since they look like they are a bit of a pain to replace. do you think I should replace them anyway?

According to the FAQ these don't often fail... but I decided to replace mine anyway... this whole upgrade is a lot of work... the last thing I wanted to do is skip something and have it turn around and bite me in the but. 

Great. Thank you!

I mis-typed earlier. Bob's kit comes with a radial 33µF 160V cap, but there was a 47µF axial installed. I will just install the radial since I have it already.

Also, I took another look at the chassis mounted transistors. I finally understand what everyone is talking about when they say you won't need to solder them. I thought I understood, but somewhere it was mentioned that you can pull off the lugs. When I saw that mine were soldered on, I thought that I wouldn't be able to. Now I realize that the transistor "holder" has the wires soldered on, but the transistor itself simple screws into this - no solder required. It should be really straight forward. Bob even threw in some new mylar insulators with the kit! Yay Bob!

I feel the same way about the extra Q603/604/703/704. I bought them because I didn't want to place a second order if I found they were bad. As long as I have the whole thing apart anyway (and I just bought some thermal compound for the chassis transistors) I might as well install them. One more thing to rule out as the problem.

Hopefully my next post will be after it is all re-assembled and after I have played a few games!

[Level42]

uhhhmmm, maybe I missed it (there are so many ur sw threads here now ), but did you renew the solderings on the deflection board ?

Do it or fail.

[Neverending Project]

I was hoping my next post would be after it's all assembled and I had played a few games.

Well, it is! I did all of the upgrades, re-flowed the solder on all the header pins, replaces the chassis caps and got it all back together. I put the monitor back in and fired it up. That 4 or 5 seconds before the screen comes on seemed like an eternity, but there it was - my working Star Wars.

The top of the screen was very dim, and it seemed to be missing some colors. I was a little worried, but a simple twist of the brightness dial and all was wonderful.

I still have to do some adjustments on the monitor and rebuild the yoke (already have the kit), but it is just as fun as I remember, I was so happy that I took the rest of the night off to relax and enjoy a cocktail, and perhaps even play a few more games. 

[RetroACTIVE]

I was hoping my next post would be after it's all assembled and I had played a few games.

Well, it is! I did all of the upgrades, re-flowed the solder on all the header pins, replaces the chassis caps and got it all back together. I put the monitor back in and fired it up. That 4 or 5 seconds before the screen comes on seemed like an eternity, but there it was - my working Star Wars.

The top of the screen was very dim, and it seemed to be missing some colors. I was a little worried, but a simple twist of the brightness dial and all was wonderful.

I still have to do some adjustments on the monitor and rebuild the yoke (already have the kit), but it is just as fun as I remember, I was so happy that I took the rest of the night off to relax and enjoy a cocktail, and perhaps even play a few more games. 

That's great news!  A happy ending to one of the many Star Wars sagas in this restorations forum. 

[Level42]

That 4 or 5 seconds before the screen comes on seemed like an eternity, but there it was - my working Star Wars.

Heh , man, do I know that feeling !   

[Neverending Project]

Thank you. My 4-year-old was excited too. Every day he would ask, "Did you get the Star Wars working yet? Can I play it?"

What do you recommend for a replacement cabinet cooling fan? The existing fan is NOISY, and I am not a computer builder, so I know next to nothing about what is readily available. I am thinking about bringing it in to FRY's to find a fan of the same size - do they even make 120VAC fans, or they all 12VDC?

[ChadTower]

do they even make 120VAC fans, or they all 12VDC?

They sell them by the millions whenever summer rolls around.  People put them in their windows.   

[Level42]

Ha-ha-ha, you keep being funny Chad.....

NP, how noisy is it ? You can't expect a 120VAC fan to be as quite as a 12V fan because it's pushing around loads more of air. I do suggest to replace it though. After so much time and running hours, a new fan will run quieter and very important reliable. There is no monitoring of the fan so if it dies you won't know unless you check it regularly and things will heat up nicely without it.

And while you're ordering a replacement fan (NOT 12V, they are not powerful enough and also would load the 12V supply a lot, making even more heat to deal with) get (at least) one more to cool the monitor chassis. Not really sure what to cool on the WG6100. I guess the best idea is to mount one over the HV board to draw air up from it. The transistors on the WG have really big cooling area's (the frame) so I guess the natural flow of both fans will be sufficient for that. Be sure to aim all airflow upwards (there are arrows indicating that on the fans).

Mind you, mains AC fans are not really cheap. Wire the extra fan parallel to the old one and isolate really well of course !

The best brand in fans is Papst. http://www.papst.us/

The original looks like a very good quality too and the manufacturer still exists and makes the same model still, but I forget the name of the manufacturer.

Whatever you do, look at the label of the original fan and get a new one with the same (or higher) CFM. For the monitor you could choose a somewhat less powerfull equivalent, but I would go with the same physical size. The larger the fan, the quieter it runs.

[ChadTower]

You can't expect a 120VAC fan to be as quite as a 12V fan because it's pushing around loads more of air.

Depends on the old fan.  If it's noisy because it's filthy, or because the mech is worn out, it could be making quite a bit more noise than a new larger fan would make. 

[Level42]

It's all depending. Maker, type of bearing, fan blades.....there's no general rules really, but I meant that generaly a 120VAC powered fan that is new and has the same size as a comparable 12VDC fan is noisier because it's more powerful.

[ChadTower]

It's all depending. Maker, type of bearing, fan blades.....there's no general rules really, but I meant that generaly a 120VAC powered fan that is new and has the same size as a comparable 12VDC fan is noisier because it's more powerful.

Can't argue that... but his fan is 25 years old and ran in a filthy environment for a lot of that time.  I agree with you that he should just swap it.  Any replaceable part like that, if you have any question, just swap it.  No sense in doing all this work and cheaping on a $15 part.

[Level42]

As I said, they are not cheap and certainly not 15 bucks.

Since my cockpit is in "service" right now anyway I just removed the fan to have a look.

This is the fan in my machine, I know for sure that it's original because it's dated 6-3-1983:

Rotron Whisper Model nr. WR2M1
50/60Hz 115VAC 6,8W

Strangely no CFM indication.

But the amazing thing is that it's still in production. The company is now Comair Rotron and here it is:
http://www.comairrotron.com/cgi-bin/acfandatasht.pl?Pnum=028291&airflow_unit=CFM&pressure_unit=inh2o&diameter_unit=in

Amazingly it's a sleeve bearing fan. Ball bearing fans are known to be more silent and reliable so it might be better to find a ball bearing equivalent.

[Level42]

Uhhhhh, that is, not sure it's still in production, just found this:

http://www.rselectronics.com/SEO/Comair_Rotron_Fans.aspx?FQL=Y


Weird that their site is still fully functional then......maybe they did a re-start ?

[Edit] Mmmmmm, looks like they were bought by a Chinese company as their headquarters are now in China:
http://www.comairrotron.com/contact_info.shtml

Which makes me want to look for a Papst equivalent really.......Best known brand.

[ChadTower]

Mouser shows a whole lot of fans in the $15-30 price range that fit that rough description.  Hard to tell if they are exact matches since there are no pics for a lot of them. 

[Level42]

If you believe that's the same quality then please buy those.

[ChadTower]

If you believe that's the same quality then please buy those.

Well that's the point, isn't it?  You're not building a life support system.  I'd rather put two of those than spend $100 on a single industrial fan.  At least then you've got some redundancy.  Some things are worth a ton of extra cash - some just don't need top end live longer than you will units.

[Level42]

Then again, burning hard-to-get parts in a precious SW cab is not what we want either.

We need fan monitoring and auto-shut-down when it fails

The Rotron has a metal frame but plastic impeller. It's also sleeve bearing and I always understood those should not be mounted horizontally (which it is in a SW). So it's not top-of-the bill, but it looks like a sturdy build.  I just don't have a warm feeling for those no-name chinese things. At least get a Sunon which is relatively cheap but OK in quality.

[ChadTower]

Hell for $100 you can probably rig up a dedicated air conditioner for the thing.   

[Level42]

How about one of these on the top of the cabinet ? 

http://www.ebmpapst.us/allpdfs/QLZ06AC%2EPDF

[ChadTower]

I know a guy that for $20/night and a six pack will stand there with his hand on the cage and yell when it burns.

[Level42]

Gee Chad, I know economy is bad, but I didn't think you were that cheap. Can't do the six pack though, no drinking on the job 

[sean-o-mac]

"With the blast shield down, I can't even see, how am I supposed to fight?" 

   Nice!

[Level42]

I dropped a mail yesterday to the european sales e-mail adress of Comair Rotron and got this reply:

In October 2008, W.E.T. Automotive purchased the Comair Rotron-Shanghai facility along with the Comair Rotron name, trademarks, and patens.  In December of 2008, Comair Rotron manufacturing in Mexico was discontinued.

I am sorry to advise that Comair Rotron-Shanghai cannot manufacture or supply the part or parts that you have requested.  You might try Orion, www.orionfans.com

They have a "conversion table" and they suggest model OA109AP-11-2TB  from Orion as a replacement, but then, any comparable fan will probably do as well.

Found this one from Sunon:
Sunon SP103A/1123LBL.GN

RS online sells them at only €10 each (excl. tax) and they even are ball bearing.

[Level42]

One more thing about fans before I rest about it:

Obviously, when running on 50 Hz (f.i. Europe) these fans push around less air then running at 60 Hz like in the US.

Just something to keep in mind. I'm sure Atari thought about that when they designed the cab...........

This also may explain that they run somewhat quieter over here....

[RayB]

Ironically, it's a ball bearing going bad (ie: mishapen, scratched, rusted, etc) that causes a hell of a lot of noise in a fan. So I guess they are only quiet until a bearing gets damaged.

[Neverending Project]

Thanks for all the fan info.

And here I was thinking I could simply run out to Radio Shack or Fry's and get a replacement. I am of the "buy inexpensive and replace if necessary" camp for something as mundane as a fan. I do know it needs to be properly rated to do its job, but as long as it gets the job done I can't see how it will effect the gameplay in any other way.

[Level42]

Hey I got carried away a bit
And some spare time at work......

As long as the CFM is the same or higher, you should be fine.

[ChadTower]

Thanks for all the fan info.

And here I was thinking I could simply run out to Radio Shack or Fry's and get a replacement. I am of the "buy inexpensive and replace if necessary" camp for something as mundane as a fan. I do know it needs to be properly rated to do its job, but as long as it gets the job done I can't see how it will effect the gameplay in any other way.

Well that's the issue... if the fan fails it increases the likelihood the game does.  So it's a tradeoff.  This isn't a cut and dry "the fan is cheap just swap in another" item.

[RayB]

Keep in mind, the fan was added to the machines later. They originally didn't come with them, but it was discovered the games ran too hot and so Atari recommended the addition. I don't know how many would have left the factory without them.

So for home use, you might get away with less powerful fans.

I struck out what I wrote above because I was trying to find a citation, but the one I found related to the HV monitor board. Could be what I was thinking of, mistaken for the main pcb fan...

http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_VAtari3.html

[Level42]

I'm 100% positive that the fan on the game board set is factory on all machine, I've seen them on US cockpit and upright and my Irish cockpit.
Also the fan is drawn in the manuals and listed in the parts list (like the fan bracket and fan guard).

Any extra (monitor related) fans are not factory, but strongly advised !

[Neverending Project]

I got some more info from David Adams from RAM controls about the original specification. He may even offer affordable (good quality) replacement fans before long too. Here is what he said (quoted with his permission):

Atari originally used a cheap sleeve bearing fan from several different suppliers.  One of which was Rotron which, up until relatively recently, was still in business.  Generally, ball bearing fans are much more quiet until they eventually fail at which time they become excessively noisy.  Anyhow, the original specification was for a 66CFM, 33dBa, 1900RPM fan which ran at 115VAC/60Hz.  I've found MANY fans which match these specs, the only one I'm having trouble with is the physical size and hole placement.  I'm still waiting on evaluation samples to arrive from three different sources.  I plan to make the fan available as soon as I choose one.  If I purchase a couple thousand of them, I can get the price low enough for everyone to get a quality fan for less.

[RetroACTIVE]

I got some more info from David Adams from RAM controls about the original specification. He may even offer affordable (good quality) replacement fans before long too. Here is what he said (quoted with his permission):

Atari originally used a cheap sleeve bearing fan from several different suppliers.  One of which was Rotron which, up until relatively recently, was still in business.  Generally, ball bearing fans are much more quiet until they eventually fail at which time they become excessively noisy.  Anyhow, the original specification was for a 66CFM, 33dBa, 1900RPM fan which ran at 115VAC/60Hz.  I've found MANY fans which match these specs, the only one I'm having trouble with is the physical size and hole placement.  I'm still waiting on evaluation samples to arrive from three different sources.  I plan to make the fan available as soon as I choose one.  If I purchase a couple thousand of them, I can get the price low enough for everyone to get a quality fan for less.

Dave kicks ass! He is such an unbelieveable asset to this hobby!

[Level42]

Mmm, yeah but comparable fans are available everywhere...

One more thing, while doing my "fan" research I read on Wikipedia that sleeve bearing fans "may perform poorly when mounted in any orientation other than vertical." We all know how it's mounted.......horizontal.

[ChadTower]

Who are these couple thousand Star Wars owners who need new fans?   

He may move 50 if he waits long enough, I would think. 

[Daviea]

Hey Chad,

If I've proven anything at all, it's that I am a big believer in overkill. :-)  Well, that and I take too long on some of my projects.**cough**SW YOKE**cough**...but that's been covered in many other threads.  haha

I generally place vendor orders with many zeros in them so I can get my per unit pricing down.  Sure, I have to drop down a wad of cash, but I can justify it in knowing that the price I pass onto customers will be much lower.  Lower cost enables me me to sell more quantity.  In the case of the fans, Atari used a similar fan in many different machines, so I have a much larger client base.  Instead of 50 potential sales, I might have 70 or 80.  LOL

David Adams
RAM Controls

Who are these couple thousand Star Wars owners who need new fans?   

He may move 50 if he waits long enough, I would think. 

[ChadTower]

Hey Chad,

If I've proven anything at all, it's that I am a big believer in overkill. :-) 

I believe this of you, my friend.  I believe it.   

[RayB]

not to mention you dont get any reasonable discount on small orders. 1000 units could mean $10 each wholesale, whereas buying 50 might mean $40 or $50 each wholesale.

[Neverending Project]

I finally was able to rebuild the controller this weekend using the parts from the Ram-Controls rebuild kit. I went ahead and replaced all parts included in the kit except for the large gear in the front-back section of the controller. I didn't want to take the handle assembly all the way out. But both pots were in need of replacing, and only one of the three buttons was working. The smaller gear in the handle assembly was cracked too.

I got everything together and reassembled only to find two problems. First, I swapped the left and right thumb/trigger connections. Well, to be credit I hooked them up the way they were connected before, but they must have been backwards when i got it. It doesn't affect gameplay at all, but I will switch them... just because. The second problem was that the spacer bearing on the steering shaft is missing. I didn't lose it, it was just missing.

I didn't notice it before because the old bumpers were completely disintegrated. When I put on the new bumpers they actually cause rub on the steering assembly, making it very difficult to turn. So it is back to Dave to the rescue. I just don't want to take it all apart again, but I will.

I still want to rebuild the AR/II board even though it is working correctly. I have the rebuilt kit, and the caps must be close to wearing out anyway. I also picked up a Big Blue at the same time that I will go ahead and replace.

Almost there... stay on target.

[Neverending Project]

Does anyone have the dimensions of the spacer bearing? David has used all his stock for the yoke orders (good news to the dirty dozen), and my game is basically unplayable until I get a spacer in there. I was thinking of crafting something temporary out of PVC pipe until David has a chance to make another run.

[Level42]

If you have a bit of patience I can measure the one on my yoke. I'm currently disassembling it, or should I say _was_ disassembling it.

There I was, all prepared. I had my set of "weird-security type of bits" ready, like my freshly aquired imperial hex-set ready, so I was all set to disassemble the whole thing.

Eveything went well until I had to remove the spring pin. I needed a 9/64 th hex for that. WTF ? Not in my set ! I tried a couple of the bits instead and one was really tight. Had to use my battery drill but it came loose fine.

Then next, to remove the big gear the manual says I need a 7/64 hex. W_T_F ?!?!?! How many of those xxxth/yyyyth hex kinda things are there in the imperial system anyway ?? Of course this wasn't in my set either ! Tried something else, but I was wearing it out a bit so I stopped right away, will have to get the right hex tools......geez....

In metric it is _so_ simple. You have either 3, 4, 5 etc. and in between you have halves AND THAT'S IT....

Sigh....

Anyway, as soon as I get further I will measure it fot you  !

[Neverending Project]

Then next, to remove the big gear the manual says I need a 7/64 hex. W_T_F ?!?!?! How many of those xxxth/yyyyth hex kinda things are there in the imperial system anyway ?? Of course this wasn't in my set either ! Tried something else, but I was wearing it out a bit so I stopped right away, will have to get the right hex tools......geez....

In metric it is _so_ simple. You have either 3, 4, 5 etc. and in between you have halves AND THAT'S IT....

Sigh....

Anyway, as soon as I get further I will measure it fot you  !

Well, they don't go finer than 1/64th of an inch, so technically I suppose there would be no more than 63 sizes in between every inch. 

(personally I hate the imperial units, but what are ya gonna do?)

Thanks, whenever you get a chance. I basically need the thickness and hole diameter (which is approx. the same as the shaft). You can even give it to me in metric units, if you wish. 

[Daviea]

Hope this helps...

Pay attention to the "inside" of the spacer bearing - it needs enough clearance for the flange of the bronze bearing.

David Adams
RAM Controls

P.S.  I'm using all of *my* spacer bearings for the assembled yoke controllers.  I didn't make any spares above and beyond the first 1000 units.  I'll be making some more very soon.

Does anyone have the dimensions of the spacer bearing? David has used all his stock for the yoke orders (good news to the dirty dozen), and my game is basically unplayable until I get a spacer in there. I was thinking of crafting something temporary out of PVC pipe until David has a chance to make another run.

[Neverending Project]

A small update for this one... I rebuilt the A/R II board the other night, since I already had the kit. When I pulled the board and examined it, it was in excellent condition and the solder on the back was actually still shiny. I decided to only replace the electrolytic caps, instead of replacing the transistors as well. After all, the power all tested fine anyway, I was just performing some preventative maintenance on it.

All went well except for one of the larger caps which I inadvertantly installed backwards. I had a weird suspicion about it too... I always double-check the orientation before I pull the old cap, and then I only install one at a time checking them off as I go. In this case I pulled two since they were right next to each other, and they were the same size and all. Well after I pulled them, I forgot which way they went (even though I double checked before pulling them), and the "+" sign on the PCB was ambiguous. So i did my best at matching the new ones with the old ones, even going as far as holding the old ones back on the board and comparing dust "traces".

I was wrong. It turned out they were installed in opposite directions, even though they were right next to each other. I had already re-installed the baord and began testing the game before I realized this. I pulled the board, fixed the cap (I turned it around since there were no signs of failure and it tested good on my DMM) and re-installed. The game still didn't work... Drat.

A little stress and googling later, I found that it had blown two 4-Amp slo-blow fuses in the power supply. to my luck I had exactly two 4-Amp slo-blow fuses left in my reserves. I replaced them, powered it up, and all was good. Phew.

Oh, and I replaced the Big Blue too (with a Big Black). I am stalling on the temporary yoke spacer bearing because David said he will be making some more very soon. I am considering slipping a piece of paper or something in there in the meantime to prevent the bumpers from sticking, so I don't have to pull the yoke apart two more times.

[Daviea]

Does anyone have the dimensions of the spacer bearing? David has used all his stock for the yoke orders (good news to the dirty dozen), and my game is basically unplayable until I get a spacer in there. I was thinking of crafting something temporary out of PVC pipe until David has a chance to make another run.

HEY NP!!!

Lookie what I made just because you asked:



I ran off another 600 of these just for you!!  Wait, how many did you want again??  LOL

David Adams
RAM Controls

[Neverending Project]

I ran off another 600 of these just for you!!  Wait, how many did you want again??  LOL

I'll take 599. Oh wait, sorry. Did the math wrong. How about 1?

[Level42]

A small update for this one... I rebuilt the A/R II board the other night, since I already had the kit. When I pulled the board and examined it, it was in excellent condition and the solder on the back was actually still shiny. I decided to only replace the electrolytic caps, instead of replacing the transistors as well. After all, the power all tested fine anyway, I was just performing some preventative maintenance on it.

All went well except for one of the larger caps which I inadvertantly installed backwards. I had a weird suspicion about it too... I always double-check the orientation before I pull the old cap, and then I only install one at a time checking them off as I go. In this case I pulled two since they were right next to each other, and they were the same size and all. Well after I pulled them, I forgot which way they went (even though I double checked before pulling them), and the "+" sign on the PCB was ambiguous. So i did my best at matching the new ones with the old ones, even going as far as holding the old ones back on the board and comparing dust "traces".

I was wrong. It turned out they were installed in opposite directions, even though they were right next to each other. I had already re-installed the baord and began testing the game before I realized this. I pulled the board, fixed the cap (I turned it around since there were no signs of failure and it tested good on my DMM) and re-installed. The game still didn't work... Drat.

A little stress and googling later, I found that it had blown two 4-Amp slo-blow fuses in the power supply. to my luck I had exactly two 4-Amp slo-blow fuses left in my reserves. I replaced them, powered it up, and all was good. Phew.

Oh, and I replaced the Big Blue too (with a Big Black). I am stalling on the temporary yoke spacer bearing because David said he will be making some more very soon. I am considering slipping a piece of paper or something in there in the meantime to prevent the bumpers from sticking, so I don't have to pull the yoke apart two more times.

I usually don't replace transistors when they're working, I really don't see the reason.
Possible exception are the deflection transistors.

I made the same mistake like you when working on my first AR-2. It's because of that that one cap is used for the negative voltage, so the + and - seem to be "wrong" on the board. Luckely I discovered it before powering up.

[Spyridon]

Lookie what I made just because you asked:



I ran off another 600 of these just for you!!  Wait, how many did you want again??  LOL

David Adams
RAM Controls

Hmmm...I wonder if that works for me?

David - I would like a fully assembled and playable SW cockpit for under $1000 (delivered).  I promise to give you a great review!