Motherboard Upgrade Questions

[Tiger-Heli]

I have a Pentium 200 MMX, Asus SP97-V (SIS 5597 or SIS 5598 chipset) mobo and a 14.0 GB primary drive and 3.2 GB secondary drive, running Win 98 original, with the 98 SE upgrade disc, Win98Lite, and Astonshell.

I am thinking of upgrading to a Duron 850Mhz and whatever cheap refurbished KT266 or better mobo www.newegg.com has on sale.

The mechanical upgrade is no problem and I realize to start with a minimal installation and add items gradually (i.e. mobo, PS, memory, CPU, Fan, vid card only; power up and test; then add hard drive, floppy, CD, modem, etc).

Questions:

I realize the best option is to back up the 14.0 GB drive, format, and then re-load all the programs back on it, but I have a ton of programs loaded and a lot of little tweaks and settings that I probably can't remember and wouldn't want to lose.  (I've reloaded Windows many times (you eventually will need to), so I know how to do it, but it's a pain.)

What is your opinion of the success likelihood/failure likelihood of any of the following, and which option would you recommend:

1.  Hook the 14.0 Gb drive up to the system, and hope Windows detects the new hardware and I can load the drivers and be on my way.

2.  Back up and wipe the 3.2 drive.  Then hook it up as primary, load Windows to it.  Hook the 14.0 drive up as secondary, copy the windows partition from the 3.2 to the 14.0.  Install the 14.0 as primary.  Reload all my programs.

3.  Hook the 14.0 Gb drive up to the system, reload Windows over the existing Windows installation, and hope everything works okay.

4. Delete the subdirectories of Windows before swapping the mobo and reload Windows, then reload my programs, if required (I think this keeps the registry structure, but does a more complete install than option 3).

5. Delete the entire Windows directory from the 14.0 drive before swapping the mobo (probably from DOS).  Then reload Windows and re-install all my programs.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[slug54]

1.  Hook the 14.0 Gb drive up to the system, and hope Windows detects the new hardware and I can load the drivers and be on my way.

I've found it best to boot the drive in safe mode the FIRST time you boot it up on the new hardware.
go to device manager  and remove all the items that are being replaced. IE system board components, hdd controllers any MOBO devices. Then  reboot the system let the PNP devices re-detect and then run the add new hardware wizard. I've never had a problem doing it this way ,You really should have a good backup when trying any of the methods. If you just move the drive and let 98 sort it out you have a really good chance at getting your drivers hosed up.
If it was XP I'd say just move the drive and boot it.

                                  Slug54

[Mike]

I will guarantee you won't be able to boot your computer from the current OS. You might have a slight chance from windows 2000 or XP but usually when swapping the mobo you have to rebuild the system. My opinion is rebuild it and reload everything. Also on your hardware if you already have the duron I understand why your using it if not I'd get a little beefier CPU. If your looking to go with a lowend processor I'd definately use the celeron over the duron. Just my two cents.

[Odonadon]

I've found it best to boot the drive in safe mode the FIRST time you boot it up on the new hardware.
go to device manager  and remove all the items that are being replaced. IE system board components, hdd controllers any MOBO devices. Then  reboot the system let the PNP devices re-detect and then run the add new hardware wizard. I've never had a problem doing it this way

Slug54 is right.  This should work just nicely for you.  But don't forget to start up in safe mode first, or you might make a nice little mess for yourself .  Also, make sure you toast EVERYTHING.  Including USB drivers, IDE controllers, keyboard, mouse, video, sound, power management, EVERYTHING.  Leave keyboard and mouse to the last.  If you're replacing the mobo and CPU, you want everything gone.  Your PCI and AGP (if any) controllers would most likely be completely different in the new mobo.

Definetely don't go with celeron over Duron.  Durons are cheaper, and beefier.  Celeron's are crap.

Odonadon

[Tiger-Heli]

I've found it best to boot the drive in safe mode the FIRST time you boot it up on the new hardware.
go to device manager  and remove all the items that are being replaced. IE system board components, hdd controllers any MOBO devices. Then  reboot the system let the PNP devices re-detect and then run the add new hardware wizard. I've never had a problem doing it this way

Slug54 is right.  This should work just nicely for you.  But don't forget to start up in safe mode first, or you might make a nice little mess for yourself .  Also, make sure you toast EVERYTHING.  Including USB drivers, IDE controllers, keyboard, mouse, video, sound, power management, EVERYTHING.  Leave keyboard and mouse to the last.  If you're replacing the mobo and CPU, you want everything gone.  Your PCI and AGP (if any) controllers would most likely be completely different in the new mobo.

Definetely don't go with celeron over Duron.  Durons are cheaper, and beefier.  Celeron's are crap.

Odonadon

Need some clarification, but first -

Mike - If I were buying new I would definitely get an XP2200 or so, but I already have the Duron and it should be loads better than what I have.  I plan to get a board that supports 333 FSB, so I will have some future upgrade room.

Slug54 - I have back-ups.  I don't think I would permanently lose anything.  It's more the little tweaks where for example I deleted the ad bar in Win98 (favorites bar) and would need to turn that off again.  And a million other things . . .

Now the new questions - Looking on a different system now, but I assume I want to remove the IDE and Floppy controllers, Video drivers, PCI Bus Drivers, etc., but not the System Devices  (Generic Bus, DMA controller, etc.), correct?  It seems like I took these out on a simpler KT133A to KT266A mobo swap and had to re-install Windows to get the system useable again.

Also, I have booted into Safe Mode before, but often it's on the second try b/c I am not sure what key to press and it comes up normally before I can get it into safe mode.  Would it be a good idea to boot into Safe Mode using the old mobo and delete all the "stuff" then shut down and swap the mobo and let windows find it.  (Assuming the new board works ;-) ).

Thanks again!

[Chris]

In our office, we have a lot of luck with the ECS K7S5A PRO motherboard.  $47 at NewEgg. 10 USB ports, plus built-in sound and network!  Yowza!

If you prefer onboard video and better sound, I'm happy with the Asus A7N266-VM AA. Dolby 6-channel sound and NVidia GeForce 2 onboard, along with onboard network and 6 USB ports.  $69.99 with free shipping.

For processors, the Athon XP 1700+ is $47, and the XP 2000+ is $66.  Free shipping on both.

Need memory with that?  Crucial 256MB 32x64 PC 2100 DDR RAM is on sale for $35.99, again with free shipping.

I love NewEgg.com!

[Tiger-Heli]

>In our office, we have a lot of luck with the ECS K7S5A PRO >motherboard.  $47 at NewEgg. 10 USB ports, plus built-in sound and >network!  Yowza!

I heard bad things about ECS K7S5A.  A lot of people love them and a lot of people had them die after 3 months . . .
EDIT>  Looked at the board at Newegg.  10 USB and 4 built in ports is nice, but no gameport and no 333 FSB support is a no-go for me.

>If you prefer onboard video and better sound, I'm happy with the >Asus A7N266-VM AA. $69.99 with free shipping.

Good board, but I'm trying to stay extremely low budget on this.

>For processors, the Athon XP 1700+ is $47, and the XP 2000+ is >$66.  Free shipping on both.

Not looking to upgrade the processor.

>Need memory with that?  Crucial 256MB 32x64 PC 2100 DDR RAM is >on sale for $35.99, again with free shipping.

Hehe, OfficeMax had K-byte 256M PC2100 DDR free with rebate this week.  That's really what's driving the mobo purchase ;-)

>I love NewEgg.com!

Me too, but I'm currently shopping the refurb section.  Right now, they have a Gigabyte KT333 board for $29 with free shipping and a Biostart KT400 for $34 with free shipping.  But on Monday, they had a sold out Shuttle AK38N KT333 for $23 free shipping and on Tuesday, they had a Gigabyte KT333 (or maybe 266A) for $20 but it sold out in like an hour.  That's more what I'm shopping for.

[Mike]

Definetely don't go with celeron over Duron.  Durons are cheaper, and beefier.  Celeron's are crap.

Odonadon

I don't know where you get your facts at but show me a duron test that beats a celeron. Duron's only go up to 1.3ghz. The new celerons smoke them. And your obviously just an AMD fanboy with a quote like celeron's are crap. When is the last time you ran a celeron? I can run my celeron overclocked more than 1Ghz over it's original timing. That says a lot for the manufacturing quality of a cpu. Do that to your athlon or duron and watch it go up in smoke. The Celeron may not be the CPU for you but it's hardly crap.

[slug54]

F8 for safemode when it beeps and says "Starting Windows 98".

Yes ,I would be a good idea to do it on your old MOBO
before you shut it down for the last time. I would remove all the devices.
I work mainly on Intel boards and Have never had any problems.

                               Slug54

[Tiger-Heli]

F8 for safemode when it beeps and says "Starting Windows 98".

Yes ,I would be a good idea to do it on your old MOBO
before you shut it down for the last time. I would remove all the devices.
I work mainly on Intel boards and Have never had any problems.
                               Slug54

I think the beeping and saying "Starting Windows 98" is one of the things I disabled in TweakUI.  Now you see what I mean.

I'm on the computer in question now.  By all devices, you mean:

Advanced Power management Support
Direct Memory Access Controller
IO Read Data Port for ISA Plug and Play Enumerator
Motherboard resources
Numeric Data Processor
PCI Bus
PCI Standard Host CPU Bridge
Plug and Play BIOS
Processor Support
Programmable Interrupt Controller
SIS PCI to ISA Bridge
System Board
System Board Extension for PnP Bios
System CMOS/Real Time Clock
System Speaker
System Timer

Remove them all?

Also, if I do this on the old board before shutting it down, do I still want to boot the new board in Safe Mode the first time?

Thanks again!

[slug54]

Yes , Remove all that , I would remove everthing ,serial/ parallel ports,Ide controllers USB devices etc . Just do your ide controller 2nd to last and your mouse last just in case it hangs on you.
There is no need to boot in safe mode on the new hardware but you do need to boot in safe mode to remove these devices on the old hardware. Just start tapping F8 when the bios screen is up it should bring up the safe mode menu. Just boot it up on the new hardware ,windows may want to re-boot 3 or 4 times after re-detecting the new hardware.
Then run the "add new hardware Wizard" and then load any drivers required by your new motherboard.


                               Slug54

[Tiger-Heli]

Yes , Remove all that , I would remove everthing ,serial/ parallel ports,Ide controllers USB devices etc . Just do your ide controller 2nd to last and your mouse last just in case it hangs on you.
There is no need to boot in safe mode on the new hardware but you do need to boot in safe mode to remove these devices on the old hardware. Just start tapping F8 when the bios screen is up it should bring up the safe mode menu. Just boot it up on the new hardware ,windows may want to re-boot 3 or 4 times after re-detecting the new hardware.
Then run the "add new hardware Wizard" and then load any drivers required by your new motherboard.

                               Slug54

F8 works fine.  I could never remember whether it was F8 or F6 or F5 so I just randomly hit buttons til it worked.

Thanks for the help.  I think I'm set.  I just need to find the perfect deal on the mobo now.

[radiator]

Definetely don't go with celeron over Duron.  Durons are cheaper, and beefier.  Celeron's are crap.

Odonadon

I don't know where you get your facts at but show me a duron test that beats a celeron. Duron's only go up to 1.3ghz. The new celerons smoke them. And your obviously just an AMD fanboy with a quote like celeron's are crap. When is the last time you ran a celeron? I can run my celeron overclocked more than 1Ghz over it's original timing. That says a lot for the manufacturing quality of a cpu. Do that to your athlon or duron and watch it go up in smoke. The Celeron may not be the CPU for you but it's hardly crap.

right, he's wanting a low-end (ie, < 1Ghz) CPU - so, go with Duron - the lower end duron chips outperform celerons with the same cpu frequency, fact.
and they're probably cheaper too (as are all AMD chips in comparison with their intel (dum dum dum dum) equivalents).

a few benchmark results:
FiringSquad
Digital-Life.com - ok, so this one is a Duron 1.1/1.2 vs Celeron 1.2/1.3, but still, the duron wins in pretty much every benchmark except a 3D Studio Max render test and some Sysmark Internet Content test.
Toms Hardware guide - again, slightly higher spec CPU's, but the Celeron still comes bottom of the table for nearly all tests

bottom line is that low end durons outperform low end celerons...i'm not sure about new ones though, i don't like budget cpus, and have never been a fan of intel (dum dum dum dum)...

 

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok, hopefully, these will be the last questions -

First, to test it out (BIOS and such), is it acceptable to fire up the board without mounting it in the case, I.E. install the processor and fan, memory and video card.  Hook it up to the monitor and plug in a keyboard, set it on some cardboard and connect the computer PS and Start Switch.

Since I'm buying refurb, this would be easier for me then:

1)  Unload all the system devices, remove the old mobo and install the new mobe, find out it's DOA.  Install the old mobo again and let Windows reboot 3 or 4 times to load all the old drivers so I can use the old computer while I wait for a replacement mobo, or -

2)  Remove the old mobo intact and install the new one.  Find out it's good, remove the new one and reinstall the old one and remove all the system devices, then reinstall the new board and continue.

The next questions are easier:

I have DDR 266 Mhz Ram (PC2100)

The KT400 chipset and XP 333 FSB processors run better with DDR333 memory timings than DDR400.

Is this true of the Durons as well?  In other words, is there an advantage to running 100/133 FSB/Memory bus, or am I better at 100/100?

Also, if I were to eventually get a XP 333 FSB processor, could I run it at 166/133 FSB/Memory bus?  (Understandably with degraded performance compared to PC2700 memory).