Author Topic: Killer Instinct 2 monitor problem HELP!! (Read 12721 times)

adidas1984x · « **on:** February 09, 2009, 06:21:35 am »

i just got finished restoring killer instinct 2 cabinet back to original form it had nfl blitz 99 in it and the monitor worked fine but now WITH THE KI2 BOARD IN IT the the picture is all washed out and dark and is not colorful or vibrant like it used to here is some pics and help wold be awesome
thanks

FIRST PIC IS BEFORE AND 2ND IS AFTER And LAST PIC IS MY MONITORS CHASSIS

Malenko · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:23:00 am »

have you adjusted any of the pots on the back?
My NeoGeo monitor did the save thing, I had to turn every color pot on the back up quite a bit, and then fine tuned with the breakout board.

adidas1984x · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2009, 09:28:53 am »

not yet i will try when i get home

Malenko · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2009, 10:12:41 am »

Im talking about the neck board not the chassis

grantspain · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:24:47 am »

i am pretty sure you have the dreaded u5000 monitor
these suffer serious problems with bad trace and solder connection on the neck card colour drive transistors

grantspain · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2009, 12:20:04 pm »

you will need to remove the neck card an inspect for bad connections,the drive transistors ran very hot on this chassis therefore this problem exists
here is the super repair guide from wells themselves
http://www.wellsgardner.com/pdf/Repair/U5000_25_inch.pdf
double check it is a u5000 as it is difficult to see from the pic

adidas1984x · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:47:36 pm »

its a WG 1215890 chassis

grantspain · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:53:02 pm »

hmmm could be a k7500,tbh i am not sure as they are very similar but the u5000 has a big jumper plug to switch from 15khz to 24khz
i think the same situation applies though-the neck card area

adidas1984x · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2009, 09:11:26 pm »

heres more pics

adidas1984x · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2009, 12:24:43 pm »

Quote from: adidas1984x on February 09, 2009, 06:21:35 am

i just got finished restoring killer instinct 2 cabinet back to original form it had nfl blitz 99 in it and the monitor worked fine but now WITH THE KI2 BOARD IN IT , the picture is all washed out and dark and is not colorful or vibrant like it used to here is some pics and help wold be awesome
thanks

FIRST PIC IS BEFORE AND 2ND IS AFTER And LAST PIC IS MY MONITORS CHASSIS

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2009, 12:59:24 pm »

Find the Pxxx number on the main chassis.
Would be like P758, P763, P780, etc, etc.

Bump the SCREEN voltage up a tad and see how it looks. (located on the big black flyback)
Looks like it just needs readjusted to suit that particular game. Pretty common when changing from one game to another.

Quote from: adidas1984x on February 09, 2009, 07:47:36 pm

its a WG 1215890 chassis

That is a serial number, not a model number.

adidas1984x · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:15:33 pm »

i have adjusted every knob on the neck board and the brightness and all knobs on teh chassis and the remote and it not better still washed out and grainy, so i dont knw what to do please help

heres the video

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:50:57 pm »

What does it look like if you turn just the Blue Drive and Gain down on the neckboard ?

Does that remote have both a contrast and a brightness?

Use a monitor test screen in the menu/setup/configuration screen if there is one.

adidas1984x · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:55:07 pm »

it gets dark and doesnt really change and the test menu where grrn blue red are all show up they are just dark as night

SirPeale · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2009, 02:28:05 pm »

What happens if you put the Blitz board back in? If it's dark again, you have a board issue.

If not...check R811. It may have gone open.

adidas1984x · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:04:45 pm »

i sold the blitz board so i only have the ki2 board now whats the r811?

Malenko · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2009, 05:11:28 pm »

I coulda sworn I posted.....

I have a Tekken 2 you can borrow, its the only spare JAMMA PCB I have right now.
You *SHOULD* have a hantarex Polo 25 its what comes standard in KI cabs (and MK cabs as well)

adidas1984x · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2009, 05:17:38 pm »

its deff a WG IT does look like ITS a wg u5000 THE SAME THAT WAS IN MY mk4 cabinet im gona tey too hook my jpac up some how by pushing the 2 cabinets back to back and plugging it in and see what happens and ill let you know if u want to text me or call and i can talk my number is (pm) sent

SirPeale · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2009, 07:51:52 pm »

It's not a U5000 - they have a connector right in the middle of the PCB that allows you to swap from standard to medium res. I think it's a K7400.

R811 is a resistor on the chassis. When it goes open it makes the picture dim, crappy and unusable. IIRC it's a 1/4 watt, 100K resistor.

But if you have to ask what that is, perhaps it's best you left this to a pro.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2009, 08:26:35 pm »

Quote from: Peale on February 10, 2009, 07:51:52 pm

It's not a U5000 - they have a connector right in the middle of the PCB that allows you to swap from standard to medium res. I think it's a K7400.

I know exactly what you're talking about, but it is kinda hard to see whether it's there or not in those pics. Quite possibly a K7400 like you said though.

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 10, 2009, 12:59:24 pm

Find the Pxxx number on the main chassis.
Would be like P758, P763, P780, etc, etc.

Terrible thing when you have to quote yourself.

Malenko · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2009, 08:57:42 pm »

this is my KI1 monitor which looks suspiciously alot like my polo in my MKII/UMK3 and nothing like the WG 25K7191 in my KI2

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2009, 09:52:31 pm »

Well yours and his are without a doubt a Wells Gardner models.......

Malenko · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:48:28 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 10, 2009, 09:52:31 pm

Well yours and his are without a doubt a Wells Gardner models.......

i said it backwards, heh

this is my KI1 monitor which looks suspiciously a lot like my the WG 25K7191 in my KI2 and nothing like the Polo in my MKII/UMK3

sorry for the confusement

adidas1984x · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:35:41 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 10, 2009, 12:59:24 pm

Find the Pxxx number on the main chassis.
Would be like P758, P763, P780, etc, etc.

Bump the SCREEN voltage up a tad and see how it looks. (located on the big black flyback)
Looks like it just needs readjusted to suit that particular game. Pretty common when changing from one game to another.

Quote from: adidas1984x on February 09, 2009, 07:47:36 pm
its a WG 1215890 chassis

That is a serial number, not a model number.

its says p717 which model is that?

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2009, 11:31:34 pm »

Ah ha !! .... I kinda thought that that one coil was in the wrong place for our first guesses.
(U5000 or the K7400)

It's a 25K2193 if you have the 25" or a 27K2391 if you have the 27".....
Which is a U2000 standard resolution monitor.

The neckboard should be a P719. (which is also used on several models)

adidas1984x · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2009, 06:02:54 am »

oh i got it ok kewl thanks

Malenko · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2009, 06:07:00 am »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 11, 2009, 11:31:34 pm

It's a 25K2193 if you have the 25".....

Quote from: adidas1984x on February 12, 2009, 06:02:54 am

its a 25 inch monitor so does that mean its a u5000

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2009, 02:46:04 pm »

It's a 25" U2000
25 K 2193

One thing we really need around here is a good writeup on how to adjust monitors.

(or at least the basics)

Start off by double checking your harness connections. Wiggle them a bit if you have to.
Both at the monitor and at the JAMMA connector. Take note of any flicker and such.

I generally start with the brightness and contrast about half way and then adjust the SCREEN voltage on the flyback just to when the black screen is really "black".

Then try turning the blue pots down and the red an green pots up on the neckboard.

See if we can start there and get an idea what it's looking like.
(would be nice to have a second JAMMA board to test with also)

adidas1984x · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2009, 02:58:51 pm »

i got a friend letting me hold his jamma board and ill test it that way, i think my ki2 board my have a problem

Malenko · « **Reply #29 on:** February 12, 2009, 04:21:44 pm »

tekken 2 was shipped out this morning. lemme know when it gets there

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #30 on:** February 12, 2009, 04:46:11 pm »

Malenko - can you take a good picture of that diagram on your neck board for him?

Let's not get confused here.... but I'll go ahead and post the one for the U5000 which use the same basic potentiometer layout. (same neck board, same remote board)

The color DRIVE pots are the major adjustments.
The color BIAS pots are the minor adjustments.

You'll notice there is no DRIVE pot for BLUE, it is pre-set and the others get adjusted TO it.
I would start with all the pots turned down, then tweak the DRIVE pots up just a little each until you see that color and then turn them back down just a hair.
Then use each BIAS pot and adjust them up until the colors are equal to each other on the color bar test screen.

I also usually start with the BRIGHTNESS and CONTRAST set about half. Then adjust the SCREEN up or down until the black background is truly "black". Then adjust brightness and contrast as needed.

Everybody does things a little differently, the big thing is to really watch what's happening when making an adjustment. If something does NOT make a change, there may be a different problem somewhere.

Malenko · « **Reply #31 on:** February 12, 2009, 08:41:23 pm »

I looked, and its EXACTLY the same as the image you posted.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #32 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:32:42 am »

Quote from: Malenko on February 12, 2009, 08:41:23 pm

I looked, and its EXACTLY the same as the image you posted.

Maybe it's just me being anal... but it's all in the details and I don't want anyone getting confused here. (heck, I do it enough myself)

See the coil I mentioned ?
And the U5000 has pins for dual resolution.

Malenko · « **Reply #33 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:21:25 am »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 13, 2009, 12:32:42 am

Quote from: Malenko on February 12, 2009, 08:41:23 pm
I looked, and its EXACTLY the same as the image you posted.

Maybe it's just me being anal... but it's all in the details and I don't want anyone getting confused here. (heck, I do it enough myself)

See the coil I mentioned ?
And the U5000 has pins for dual resolution.

you got me, the coil is in a different place on my label, Im not home but I'll take another pic. I was just comparing the things that are labeled, like the neck PCB and the control PCB

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #34 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:50:38 am »

Quote from: Malenko on February 13, 2009, 09:21:25 am

you got me, the coil is in a different place on my label, Im not home but I'll take another pic. I was just comparing the things that are labeled, like the neck PCB and the control PCB

Yes, the neck pcb and the remote pcb are exactly the same (literally).
But it's nice to have the rest of the layout to be correct for future reference if someone else comes along trying to identify their monitor as well. The coil placement and a few minor things are a dead giveaway if someone is not sure whether they have a U5000 or a U2000.

SirPeale · « **Reply #35 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:56:30 am »

I can't remember which monitor it is, but one of them uses the same PCB, but has a jumper wired in instead of a resistor on one spot. I /think/ it's a K7500.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #36 on:** February 13, 2009, 01:00:05 pm »

Interesting.... I may have a K7500 chassis around, I'll have to take a look at it.
(probably stuffed in a box somewhere)

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2009, 04:45:16 pm »

Pulled a couple out of the box and it does seem that they used the same "base" pcb for several models, including the K7500. Which is another good reason I always go to the P# whenever possible. (at least a good starting point) Some of the ones I pulled out had a white sticker with the P# on it over the screened on number which would tell me which variation it was.

A couple of the ones I have that use the same "base" main chassis pcb:

K7500 (med)
P793 Main
P719 Neckboard
P790 Remote

K7400 (std)
P763 Main
P719 Neckboard
P790 Remote

U5000 (std/med)
P738 Main
P719-I Neckboard
P718-D Remote

adidas1984x · « **Reply #38 on:** February 17, 2009, 12:31:52 pm »

ok i got really impacient and decided to put the jpac and mame pc in the ki2 cabinet and ck the monitor that way and it works perfect, got another board and still the same darkness problem so i dont know what the heck is going on any suggestions (im gona keep teh ki2 mame i think now cause ki1 and ki2 look perfect on the ki2 cabinet)
hers a video of the picture the mk4 cabinet has a dedicated umk3 board i bought from a friend recently and the ki2 cab has my pc in it (jpac and arcade vga card)

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2009, 12:42:34 pm »

I wonder what the voltage output difference on the video signal is between the original pcb and your MAME setup ?
Could have something do do with the one coming up dark with the orginal pcb.

Oh, and you do realize that MAME is created from the original game software right?
You were comparing them kinda like you were surprised they matched.


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