Need help with setting 480i

[Tinydane]

Hey everyone..I'm new to the forums here and new to arcade building as well.  I"m working on my first arcade built with a mameroom UAII kit.  I have a 27" ILO SDTV that has an svideo, composite, and component inputs.  The pc I'm using is  P4 Dell and has a Radeon X300 video card in it.

The X300 has svideo out as well as DVI out.  I had first intended to use the svideo for the arcade gaming but after getting it hooked up and running some games there is a lot of blurry, shifting sort of look to much of the graphics.  So my next step was to try to use the component inputs.  To do this i picked up a DVI to RCA cable thinking that would do the trick.

Using that input though the tv isnt recognizing the signal on the component input.  The only thing I can deduce is that it being an SDTV the max resolution it can recieve/dipslay is 480i not anything above that progressive.

Does anyone know if there's a way with the radeon x300 to force it to send a 480i signal?  And if not can someone recommend maybe a substitute video card that would work with this setup?

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

Paul

[cmoses]

Not very familiar with ATI, but this is what I know about NVidia.  I recently purchased a BFGTech 9400 GT card from Fry's, which has a breakout cable that splits to component, which I think is the best input for 480i.  The NVidia software contains a wizard to detect the settings for output to a TV.  I set mine up as a second monitor first, then made it the primary once I got it configured.

Does your DVI to RCA cable have Red White and Yellow jacks?  If so then that is Audio (Red and White) and video (Yellow).  That will not connect to the component input.  Component inputs are video only and would be Red, Green & Blue.

 

[Eversynth]

Have you tried forcing TV detection in the catalyst control center? It should allow you to gain access to various interlaced resolutions.
Or you could use some software solution to add an interlaced resolution, such as powerstrip.

[Tinydane]

My DVI to RCA cable has the red green blue (component) breakout as I wished.

I actually got an aswer from the avs forum guys.  Turns out that video card I have (Radeon X300) outputs DVI-D.  There is no way without an expensive decoder box, to decode digital dvi to analog.

It would have to be DVI-A (which is analog dvi).

I also, after much reading lastnight, discovered that the new DVI-I can also do both digital and analog.  So I went ahead and ordered a new Sapphire Radeon HD4650 512MB DDR2 DVI/HDCP/HDTV/HDMI PCIe card for 66 bucks.  So hopefully my reading is correct and this will work.

Now its a waiting game...and staring at wavy shifting svideo output until then.

[Jack Burton]

Are you sure that you need to be using a DVI-to-Component cable?

Your graphics card may have came with an adapter cable that plugs into the TV out slot on your graphics card.  You can check this by looking at the number of pins on the TV out of your card.  If it has only 4 pins then it is S-Video only.  If it has 9 pins then it is able to output in Composite, S-video, and Component. 

This is the best picture I could find:

http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/12/09/seven_of_nvidia/gigabyte_7800gt_hw_abig.jpg

You're looking for the box on the left.

[Eversynth]

My DVI to RCA cable has the red green blue (component) breakout as I wished.

I actually got an aswer from the avs forum guys.  Turns out that video card I have (Radeon X300) outputs DVI-D.  There is no way without an expensive decoder box, to decode digital dvi to analog.

It would have to be DVI-A (which is analog dvi).

Wait, how is it possible for it to be DVI-D only? The output usually is DVI-I.
You can test it easily using a DVI-VGA adapter: if it works, then it's sending an analog signal.

The reason it's not working is that the software is not receiving an answer from the TV (since it doesn't use a VGA or DVI connection who has DDC and EDID), and it doesn't force the output but shuts it down.
A workaround is what I described earlier.
I don't know if it works with a DVI to Component adapter. It should work with the TVOUT->component adapter though. Wasn't there one in your graphics card box?

[Tinydane]

I am assuming its DVI-D only based on the spec sheet from ATI for my card.  It specifically said DVI-D.

I'm still waiting for the new video card to arrive so I haven't been able to test or play around with this at all yet.  I will say that in the interim I've been working on configuring a front end and doing it via svideo is just crap.  I can barely read the windows desktop no matter what resolution I have it set on.

Also..someone mentioned forcing tv detec in the Catalyst utility.  I loaded up the catalyst GUI from ATI and I can't find anything on there to tell it to force detect tv input at all.  So either I"m missing somethign or its still an issue with the Radeon X300 card I have.

I loaded powerstrip but again saw nothing in there relative to detecting video back from the tv.  From what I've read on power strip I believe it's only a tool for HD capable tvs..and my Ilo is SD only.

I should be getting the new Radeon card this week so hopefully success is coming..real soon.

[Tinydane]

So I finally got the new radeon HD4350.  Saddly this card has the same issues.  If i plug in a monitor to the vga and use the svideo to the tv the display will work as a dual display and a signal is accepted by the tv.  Although like the other card the svideo quality is just not that great.

So when I unhook the svideo from the card and connect the dvi to the tv component using a dvi - component cable, I still get the signal undetected.

So as it turns out its doesnt seem to be an issue with the card as much as how to get the tv to recognize the signal from the card.

I tried messing around with powerstrip but to be honest i'm pretty lost in that program not knowing what to modify at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the dvi output from their video card to work on the component inputs on their tv?

Any help would be appreciated.

This is starting to beat me down to say the least.

[TOK]

I'm using an older ATI card (9550) with the purple converter, the one where you set the resolution with external switches. I went to the help page and noticed your cards aren't mentioned as being supported.

http://ati.amd.com/products/hdtvadapter/index.html

I don't know why this stuff is such a pain. I did it a few years ago and it was real black magic at the time. Had to hunt down the correct converter, did through all kinds of high def TV forums and other crap to get the info I needed. Back then ATI had the good support and NVidia didn't . Sounds like it might be the other way around now.

Sorry this isn't really any help, but I feel your frustration.

[Eversynth]

So when I unhook the svideo from the card and connect the dvi to the tv component using a dvi - component cable, I still get the signal undetected.

So as it turns out its doesnt seem to be an issue with the card as much as how to get the tv to recognize the signal from the card.

I tried messing around with powerstrip but to be honest i'm pretty lost in that program not knowing what to modify at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the dvi output from their video card to work on the component inputs on their tv?

Any help would be appreciated.

Let's try to get to the bottom of this.
Before saying that it's a TV problem let's check if the video card is outputting a signal even when no monitor is attached.
If you go to Display Properties->Settings, and check "Extend my windows desktop onto this monitor", does it accept the setting or it goes blank again with "Extend my desktop" unchecked?

Wasn't an adapter like this in you videocard package?


It lets you output component through the video-out port (composite as well, the yellow connector).

[Tinydane]

If i am connected via Svideo and extend the desktop it works fine.

If I use that connector in your picture (which did come with my card) i get a signal from the svideo on the card to the component on the tv but the picture is all blue like super blue.

If I disconnect the svideo and try to use the dvi out on the card to the component on the tv I get a message that no signal is detected.  If i go into the CCC GUI and choose detect displays it then finds a new display (not the previous tv display it found using svideo) and thinks its a monitor.

I started randomly messing around with powerstrip lastnight and chose the 640x480i arcade resolution from the list but that didnt change anything. I then just started randomly modifying the refresh rate on the horizontal and when I kicked it down to 15 i got a bunch of thin purple lines flashing across the screen.  As I lowered it even more they slowed down to a more constant flicker so somethign was trying to get to the tv on that line but it wasnt any sort of stable signal.

I never could find any refresh rate combination to make it turn into a solid screen display though.

So to recap:  straight svideo works but is crappy quality.   Using svideo to component adapter gives a signal but its all blue colored everything.   And using DVI to component doesnt really do squat except for some wavy lines I got when lowering the refresh in powerstrip to 15 or lower.

[Eversynth]

If I use that connector in your picture (which did come with my card) i get a signal from the svideo on the card to the component on the tv but the picture is all blue like super blue.

This could be either from a wrong connection (I don't think, unless you connected the yellow end too) or from the video card outputting another signal instead of component. Take a look in the Catalyst control center, under the TV controls if you can change signal type or if it is already sending component.

I started randomly messing around with powerstrip lastnight and chose the 640x480i arcade resolution from the list but that didnt change anything. I then just started randomly modifying the refresh rate on the horizontal and when I kicked it down to 15 i got a bunch of thin purple lines flashing across the screen.  As I lowered it even more they slowed down to a more constant flicker so somethign was trying to get to the tv on that line but it wasnt any sort of stable signal.

I never could find any refresh rate combination to make it turn into a solid screen display though.

I don't think you can just open powerstrip and change only the refresh, I think it's more complex than that.
If you want to try 15khz modes the easy way would be to use soft15khz, with the custom15khz.txt for newer ati cards.
You can enable soft15khz only on the secondary port too.

I don't have a 4350 at hand, but if you are still trying to make it work tomorrow then I can connect a 1650xt to component using the adapter provided and write up a post on how to do it step by step.

[Tinydane]

Yea not sure whats up with the all blue display when using their svideo to component adapter.  I even tried two different component cables.  On a side note..the component cables dont have any yellow connectors.  Its the red/green/blue cable.

I'll definitely load up the soft15khz software (assuming I can find it and give that a shot).  I tried looking for some more information on what exactly powerstrip is doing but havent had much luck.  I'm not sure if or why 15khz refresh even means anything.  Thats just the only refresh rate that sent at least some life to the tv...although what it sent still was just horizontal lines scrolling vertically up.

BTW..Eversynth..thanks a ton for the assistance on this.  Something tells me I"ll still be underwater with this come tomorrow so any help now or later is always appreciated.  Let me mess around witht he soft15 today and see what it does for me.

[Tinydane]

Ok so I found the soft15khz pinned thread in this forum..wasnt too hard to find.

Saddly though I dont quite get what i'm supposed to be doing.  I run the executable and my graphics card shows up twice (i'm assuming once for the monitor once for the tv) but all the buttons are greyed out/disabled.  What am I supposed to be loading?

Is there a master txt file of some sort I am missing that I need to load?

[Eversynth]

Ok so I found the soft15khz pinned thread in this forum..wasnt too hard to find.

Saddly though I dont quite get what i'm supposed to be doing.  I run the executable and my graphics card shows up twice (i'm assuming once for the monitor once for the tv) but all the buttons are greyed out/disabled.  What am I supposed to be loading?

Is there a master txt file of some sort I am missing that I need to load?

When that happens it's because of 2 things:
1) Card not supported
2) Drivers version

It's probably number 2. Now what to do:
- Download the oldest catalyst possible for your card (Catalyst 7.11)
- Go to C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\UninstallAll  and launch the uninstall application.
- Reboot
- Install the 7.11 drivers, then reboot.
- create a txt file, past the following content and rename it "custom15khz.txt":

Code: [Select]

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
- Place the .txt file in the same folder as soft15khz. Launch Soft15khz. Select the secondary output (it's the DVI port, NOT the tv-out). Then click only the 15khz button. Set the DVI-output resolution to 640x480 and reboot again.

To know if soft15khz is working:
If you attach a PC monitor to the output port configured with soft15khz, and the PC monitor says that the signal is "out of range", or if the PC monitor reports the frequency (mine does) as 15.something, it's working.

[Eversynth]

Ok, I connected my ATI to my TV through component, and it was pretty straightforward.

Just connect only the TV to the component cable (no pc monitor) and everything should work automatically.

If you want to configure things a little and keep the pc monitor connected, after connecting the component output in the catalyst control center should appear a "component" configuration category.
There you can choose if you need to use 480p (if you have a ntsc tv like in the USA), 480i or 576i (PAL) if you are in europe. Select only one (480i or 480p, not both) and when you use the 640x480 resolution it will use the i or p signal accordingly.

If the image is not displayed with the correct colors and it's still blue, check the connection. (Ex. make sure you are not connecting the RED component to the RED audio input in the tv, they are identical)

[Tinydane]

Ok so I uninstalled the driver i had and downloaded the 7.1 drivers and installed that.

When I start up now it says that the catalyst control center is not compatible with the driver version I am using and to use the display properties to change any settings.

So I launch quickres and then start soft15.  This time when I start soft15 it only thinks I have one adapter and doesnt see the tv connected at all.  Even still the buttons for installing anything are still all grayed out.  It still does not recognize the custom file i created.

If I try to just boot up using the dvi connected to the component input on the tv and no monitor attached I get the message I've gotten all along..."No signal detected" on my tv.

Any other ideas?

[Eversynth]

Any other ideas?

Ok, I did a more complete search.

Looks like the oldest Catalyst driver that support your graphics card are the 8.12, even if the Ati website suggests down to 7.11.

So probably there's no way to use soft15khz with your card.

Try 8.12, if doesn't work forget it and try as I have explained in my post above.

I connected to the tv via component using the tv out and without soft15khz

[Tinydane]

So you're using the svideo output on the card with the included svideo to component adapter cable that comes with the card?

That works for me as well..well aside from the video being all blue.  I tried flip flopping the green/blue cables and no combination seems to clear that up so i'm not sure whats up with that.

Do you notice if using the component input on the tv off the svideo (tv out) from your card looks better quality wise versus just the regular svideo to svideo.

Worst case in all this i just go back to using straight svideo out to svideo in on the tv.

Just cant get this mot#(@*$#ing dvi out to component in working.  My hopes and goal was i'd get better video quality with that.  But no video is certainly not better than svideo..lol.

I'll give the 8.12 driver a try and see if that jives with soft15..my thinking is no..but hey i'll give it a shot.

[Eversynth]

So you're using the svideo output on the card with the included svideo to component adapter cable that comes with the card?

Yes

That works for me as well..well aside from the video being all blue.  I tried flip flopping the green/blue cables and no combination seems to clear that up so i'm not sure whats up with that.

If the image is too blue, probably it's lacking red. Have you tried with another component cable? Maybe one of the 3 connections on the cable is faulty?
Is the TVOUT-component ok? Are all 7 pins ok?
Again, check the connections.
Also, make sure in the Catalyst control panel that the color settings are ok. One time I was wondering why I was getting a black/white picture, until I noticed the saturation in the CCC was all the way down.

Do you notice if using the component input on the tv off the svideo (tv out) from your card looks better quality wise versus just the regular svideo to svideo.

Yes, it does look better.

[Tinydane]

I've tried two different component cables so if its a cable issue it must be the adapter that came with the card.

The svidoe jack is fine because when I use just the svideo straight through cable to the svideo on the the tv the signal is fine...fuzzy quality but fine signal wise.

Sucks to hear the svideo to component looks better, and i got this blue issue though.go figure.

Not sure what to try other than maybe i'll call sapphire and ask for a replacement cable.

[M3d10n]

Sounds like you are using component out, but is telling Catalyst to output s-video/composite. This causes the image to go blue, because only one of the cables is used. In the Catalyst control panel, make sure you extend/clone using the HDTV icon (looks like an LCD), not the TV one (the CRT-looking one).

[retrometro]

When that happens it's because of 2 things:
1) Card not supported
2) Drivers version

It's probably number 2. Now what to do:
- Download the oldest catalyst possible for your card (Catalyst 7.11)
- Go to C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\UninstallAll  and launch the uninstall application.
- Reboot
- Install the 7.11 drivers, then reboot.
- create a txt file, past the following content and rename it "custom15khz.txt":

Code: [Select]

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
- Place the .txt file in the same folder as soft15khz. Launch Soft15khz. Select the secondary output (it's the DVI port, NOT the tv-out). Then click only the 15khz button. Set the DVI-output resolution to 640x480 and reboot again.

To know if soft15khz is working:
If you attach a PC monitor to the output port configured with soft15khz, and the PC monitor says that the signal is "out of range", or if the PC monitor reports the frequency (mine does) as 15.something, it's working.

Just want you to know what even 11 years after your post, your custom15khz.txt and Soft15khz on my Windows XP machine worked on my VGA to component RGB pass through (from linuxbox) worked!

[Zebidee]

Soft15khz was great for its time but is obsolete. CRT_emudriver is better, and then you can also get max advantage from Groovymame (which is cool  ).

I know, I know, you are old-school (like me) and like the simplicity of soft15khz, but in this case change is a good thing.

[Osirus23]

I know, I know, you are old-school (like me) and like the simplicity of soft15khz, but in this case change is a good thing.

You aren't old school unless you're using PowerStrip.

[Zebidee]

You aren't old school unless you're using PowerStrip.

Lol, i must be pretty old then. I used to use powerstrip for outputting component video at 15.7khz from those old Radeon 9xxx series cards with tv out functionality.

Interestingly, I’ve been designing a widget that just plugs into the vga port and does YPbPr for me - no need to frag about with old video cards and older software.