Rookie needs direction. Model#25k7191 I think I need a flyback & cap kit.

[Billy]

I just got my first arcade machine. Its an 1990 Atari Pit-Fighter. Yea I know the game sucks. Anyway it has it's fair share of issues. The main thing is the Wells Gardner / Zenith Monitor looks really really bad. Could one of you kind souls take a look at it? I have put up a fair number of pictures of it. What do you guys and gals think the problem might be?

http://www.mrcade.com

The pics are in the gallery a few folders down and along the side of my website are random shots. The site is brand new meaning tonight so its still ruff around the edges.

Anyway thanks in advance for your time!

Regards
Billy

[qrz]

initially, it appears to be a weak crt . 
a rejuve may help. 
 one pic did appear to have some sync tearing . 'lytic caps around the h/v processor ic may need replaced .
or could be lazy and just " shotgun" it .
the flyback is ok , leave it be 

qrz

[LyonsArcade]

Yeah, I would say the biggest problem is it looks like there's an issue with the tube itself.  Even a capkit probably won't make the mix of color nice and vivid.  What I would do in a situation like that is capkit the monitor, then if I can't adjust the picture to look good, I'd replace the tube with something from another monitor.  The good thing is 25" tubes seem to swap around pretty good since they only made a few styles of 25" monitors (that are popular).

[Ken Layton]

How did it look with the Pit Fighter board? If you are using this monitor with MAME, you do know that the monitor will need a video amplifier to boost the video signal from the computer?

[Kevin Mullins]

Ken... here's some pics for ya.

I'd have to say cap it, check for bad solder joints, then possibly rejuve the tube.
Aslo check video signal connections and color transistors, etc.
Looks like an overkill on the red and possibly missing green.

[Billy]

Well I haven't took apart the machine at all. It is still stock no mame yet. I figure my best bet for a good project is to collect everything I need first. In the mean time try to get a handle on tv / monitor repair. Looks like I need to know how now! Otherwise a guy could go broke paying a tv repair man.

In answer to your question Ken the pictures are from the pit-fighter board displayed on this monitor. When I first plugged in the arcade machine We heard one heck on a loud "bomp" noise. This was clearly sound from the speaker. It has not made one chirp since.

Anyway I figure I will buy a cap kit and SafeBack Discharger Kit from Bob. Do you think I need to get the flyback as well? Btw how do you buy this stuff from him? I do not see any shopping cart and it says no CC's or paypal. Can anyone explain how to buy from Bob? Do you just email then snail mail the money?

And as far as what I added to my project tonight. I stopped a bought a cheap Ge analog multimeter and a 30 pack of beer. Yea the beer cost more than the meter. lol Then I hit up my local thrift store which had a very nice 25 inch zenith tv playing. The guy wanted $89.89 for the tv with a broken door on the front and no remote. I told him the picture looked great then I passed on the deal and went home to drink a beer. Maybe I will go back and get that tube later if I need it. But for now I am more interested in trying to repair what I have. So looks like I need to buy more tools...

[Kevin Mullins]

Can anyone explain how to buy from Bob? Do you just email then snail mail the money?

Send him an e-mail of the list of stuff you want..... he'll gather it all up and send you a message with your grand total, run out and grab a Postal Money order an send it off to him.
(I say Postal money only because that's what I use)

I wouldn't think you need a flyback just yet.......usually the set would be totally dead if it did.

[Billy]

Thanks for the reply man. How much more would the flyback cost me anyway? We are not talking a lot of money are we for the whole thing right?

Also is this the right one for my Wg?
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/k7000.gif

There are two different links on his id page.

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/monitor.html

I just want to confirm that I would get the WG K7000z kit?

Can you clarify?

Ty for your time!

[Billy]

initially, it appears to be a weak crt . 
a rejuve may help. 
 one pic did appear to have some sync tearing . 'lytic caps around the h/v processor ic may need replaced .
or could be lazy and just " shotgun" it .
the flyback is ok , leave it be 

qrz

What is a shotgun?

I also found some B & K Cathode Rejuvenator & Tube Tester equipment. I will pick that up in the next few weeks.

Hate to be a pain but is there some links to a getting stared guide? This sounds crazy but I don't even know how to read my new multimeter.

Can you teach an old dog new tricks?

Ty in advance...
Regards
Billy

[Kevin Mullins]

Yours has a Zenith picture tube, but is NOT the Zenith model that you may see reference to. totally different looking chassis. You have a genuine Wells Gardner 25K7191.
So a K7000 kit would do ya. see Bob's chart: http://www.therealbobroberts.net/k7000.html
The flyback alone is like $19.00, do it now and you should be good for a long time.
(but I don't want to say it "needs" one)
Heck, you could order the whole kit and hang on to the other stuff for spare.
(the kit you linked to )

But the cap kit alone is like $6.00 and it will cost ya another $6.00 to ship......so I always suggest looking at what else you can get while you're shopping. (Not sure what all may have changed on his shipping policies)

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/ordering.html

[Billy]

There is the page I have been looking for! You are the man Kevin...

[Kevin Mullins]

What is a shotgun?

"Shotgun" - a term generally used meaning to replace a bunch of stuff all at once without knowing exactly which part is the problem. Kinda like just replacing all the common parts that fail and see what happens. (especially in the case of capacitors)

But on that same note....all those capacitors are of the same age and have been subject to similar heat and such, so they are bound to fail once they start going. So I generally do a "kit" and get a good start on prolonging it. (IMO)

[Billy]

Ah that makes perfect sense. You have already helped me out a lot. Most of what I have asked is pretty clear now thanks. Thanks for all of your time. I will be shooting off an email to bob tomorrow.

[LyonsArcade]

I think a capkit is a good idea, but to be honest I wouldn't expect much... unless that monitor board is way out of adjustment (I doubt it) you're not going to get the color right just from a capkit.  The geometry will probably look better, though, you should be able to adjust the picture to the right size and shape, but to me it looks like you're missing possibly TWO colors on the neckboard, or the tube is just about blown out.  The red is strange, since when a tube is overdriven it usually does something like that, but your red doesn't extend to the edges of the screen, leading me to believe it's probably a problem on the pcb.  The tube rejuvenator may kill the tube, as well.

I'm not trying to be discouraging! Just trying to help you fix it.  Also, there is no way at all I'd pay 90 bucks for a t.v. just for the tube.  Please dont' do that!  If you're going to do a tube swap, just go buy a broken t.v., on a t.v. the tube is almost always still good and the board bit the dust.  Save yourself some trouble though and get an older 25" t.v. if you do that, since the angle of the tube is different on the newer ones (it'll work, but looks bad).

Do a capkit, first though.  I wouldn't do a flyback, they're hard to change, you might break the pcb, and it likely is working fine since you have a picture.  I dont' believe a flyback would cause geometry or color problems. 

[Billy]

I think a capkit is a good idea, but to be honest I wouldn't expect much... unless that monitor board is way out of adjustment (I doubt it) you're not going to get the color right just from a capkit.  The geometry will probably look better, though, you should be able to adjust the picture to the right size and shape, but to me it looks like you're missing possibly TWO colors on the neckboard, or the tube is just about blown out.  The red is strange, since when a tube is overdriven it usually does something like that, but your red doesn't extend to the edges of the screen, leading me to believe it's probably a problem on the pcb.  The tube rejuvenator may kill the tube, as well.

Thanks for a very good post. How do I fix the neck board? Can I buy another one? Where would I buy all the parts I need?

I'm not trying to be discouraging! Just trying to help you fix it.  Also, there is no way at all I'd pay 90 bucks for a t.v. just for the tube.  Please dont' do that!  If you're going to do a tube swap, just go buy a broken t.v., on a t.v. the tube is almost always still good and the board bit the dust.  Save yourself some trouble though and get an older 25" t.v. if you do that, since the angle of the tube is different on the newer ones (it'll work, but looks bad).

This seems to be very hard to do. Not many tv shops around anymore. I am in southern maryland. I cannot find a decent broken or useable tv to save my life. That is without spending big bucks!

Do a capkit, first though.  I wouldn't do a flyback, they're hard to change, you might break the pcb, and it likely is working fine since you have a picture.  I dont' believe a flyback would cause geometry or color problems. 

Yep cap kit on order from bob. I am going to drop the money order in the mail box this morning.

[LyonsArcade]

On the 'neckboard' you first have to get a grasp of what colors are missing, or if they're just out of adjustment, etc. then you can troubleshoot from there.  I'd probably also try another board in the game just to make sure it's not on the gameboard itself. 

When you get the capkit, show us some more pictures of what it looks like then.

[srarcade]

You are very lucky to have a the non-Zennith boards. I have the very same cabinet (Atari Pit-Fighter) and had to buy a replacement chassis (Wei-ya 825HR from Alva Amusements) just last week since I had the Zennith one. Anyway if you want to see my notes for any tips that might help I have my whole procedure at:

http://arcadeotaku.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2003&start=15#p27045