Hot water boiler installation. Where to start?

[lordtodd75]

I just bought my first home about 8 months ago and it is starting to look like i may need to replace the boiler. I have never installed or even worked on a hot water boiler but I am very handy, much like everyone else in this forum. Has anyone ever replaced there hot water boiler? What are some good reading materials to get me started?

[ChadTower]

2 - start calling HVAC contractors.  Boilers are high pressure systems that can eff you up permanently if you have no idea what you're doing.

[Blanka]

Do you have natural gas? In that case, nothing beats a 105% efficient European CW class 6 central heating furnace. A boiler is just storing hot water, which is inefficient by default.
http://www.haring.nl/?id=14438&shopid=336
It heats the house, either hot filled, or low-water low temperature, it has modulated heating (continuous low power heating), fills 10 bathtubs in a row in high speed.

[saint]

Consider going tankless if you have gas available. They don't have whole house electrical tankless systems worth a damn I'm told.

[Blanka]

And if gas is cheaper then electricity, you can also pick a heat/power combined unit. That one makes electricity too.

[orion]

I defiantly second hiring out someone else to install it for you... thats not a job for a DIYer. As mentioned the tankless water heaters are the way to go.... you never run out of hot water with them, and a must have if you have a garden or whirlpool tub... when mine goes thats what I'm going to replace it with.

[CCM]

Is it me or are people talking about 2 different things? 

1. hot water boiler - used to heat the house...  don't want to mess with that yourself
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heatingcoolingrepair/ss/trblsht_boiler.htm
http://www.weil-mclain.com/products/consumer


2. hot water heater - used to heat water... very easy to install.
http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/hwh_tank_gas.htm



I assumed the OP was talking about the whole house heater kind, not a hot water heater...

Am I missing something?

[daywane]

I can not tell were you live.
If you can cut our own wood , change to a wood burner.
I wish I had a basement!
I would really change my set up then.
but for what I have, it works great.
I have the places to cut my own wood for free.
I have room to store it.
cost to heat my house is next to nothing .
except the had work.
wish I could help.

i have never seen a system like you have

[Level42]

Do you have natural gas? In that case, nothing beats a 105% efficient European CW class 6 central heating furnace. A boiler is just storing hot water, which is inefficient by default.
http://www.haring.nl/?id=14438&shopid=336
It heats the house, either hot filled, or low-water low temperature, it has modulated heating (continuous low power heating), fills 10 bathtubs in a row in high speed.

Think they don't really export to the US Blanka.....besides it's got a 40 liter water boiler inside !
I think lots of homes still use "oliestook" (oil) to heat the house. At least my uncle's house has one, and the freaking thing is HUGE, but you're gonna need it if it's -20 degr. outside and you want to keep it at +21 degree inside......

And how can any device like this be higher efficient than 100% (which already feels impossible to me) ?

[ChadTower]

Am I missing something?

They are often combined units here.

[saint]

Is it me or are people talking about 2 different things? 

1. hot water boiler - used to heat the house...  don't want to mess with that yourself
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heatingcoolingrepair/ss/trblsht_boiler.htm
http://www.weil-mclain.com/products/consumer


2. hot water heater - used to heat water... very easy to install.
http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/hwh_tank_gas.htm



I assumed the OP was talking about the whole house heater kind, not a hot water heater...

Am I missing something?

Quite possibly. I was referring to #2.

[Blanka]

Sorry, I posted a wrong example. There are high speed water heaters without storage too. The one I posted has a 40 liter buffer. And off course it is easy to use them too heat the house too. A shower is much more demanding than -20 outside!
About the 105% efficiency. It is calculated based on the caloric content of gas. The 5% is added because the electric turbine to deliver oxygen to the burning process and to remove heat from the hot co2/damp is so efficient, that most of its electricity draw is also added to the generated heat.

[Kevin Mullins]

Hot water boiler installation. Where to start?

Turn the water off.   

Seriously though....as metioned before, we kinda need to know if we're talking about an actual "boiler" or a typical average joe water heater.

[myntik1]

Either way you could probably find someone to install it for you.  The only thing that scares me more than electricity and water is natural gas and fire.  I'm a cheap bastard and I would hire that out.  It's not hard in either case, but it's not worth the headache (while doing it and wondering if your dna will be in the next county if there's a mishap).

[daywane]

heck if its just a plain old hot water heater.
That's simple.
cut pipes
toss out old system.
get copper tube, flux, solder,torch, fittings
sweat pipes. ( put on flux, torch it, put fitting on, solder with torch) ( I like MAP Gas, Yellow bottle burns hotter)
fill system up. Check for leaks with dish soap and H20 in spray bottle.
any bubbles re solder.

[protokatie]

If you let daywayne play your arcade cab for a day, maybe he will do it for free: considering how easy he makes it sound 

[ChadTower]

The only thing that scares me more than electricity and water is natural gas and fire. 

In other news he's only marginally terrified of earth and wind.   

[Ed_McCarron]

If you let daywayne play your arcade cab for a day, maybe he will do it for free: considering how easy he makes it sound 

Its  honestly not tough; takes me about two hours to replace a gas hot water heater.

Helps if the pipe unions are in the right place.

[lordtodd75]

Sorry about the confusion. I am actually talking about an oil boiler to heat my home. I had no idea it was as difficult and undoable as everyone is saying. I just thought pehaps someone could point me in the direction of some reading material to help me learn the ropes. It is very hard for me to pay $1000.00 to $2000.00 for 2 days worth of labor.

[shardian]

I replaced my electric hot water heater. It was pretty easy. The only possible problem point is soldering skills.

Dawayne left out one important step in his soldering guide though - use the wire brush to clean both pieces being soldered. There is a special wire tool for standard 1/2" pipe that usually comes with the soldering kit you will buy anyways.

So.... clean/flux/heat until solder flows/solder are the basic steps. Oh, and take off the flame once solder starts to flow. That way the solder can be properly 'sweated' in.

[ChadTower]

Sorry about the confusion. I am actually talking about an oil boiler to heat my home. I had no idea it was as difficult and undoable as everyone is saying. I just thought pehaps someone could point me in the direction of some reading material to help me learn the ropes. It is very hard for me to pay $1000.00 to $2000.00 for 2 days worth of labor.

Depending on local laws you may have to pay it.  I know here if that's done without a license, and something happens that requires an insurance claim, you're SOL.  First thing the adjustor will say is "let's see the permits, inspection reports, and license number of the person who did it".

[CCM]

Sorry about the confusion. I am actually talking about an oil boiler to heat my home. I had no idea it was as difficult and undoable as everyone is saying. I just thought pehaps someone could point me in the direction of some reading material to help me learn the ropes. It is very hard for me to pay $1000.00 to $2000.00 for 2 days worth of labor.

Yea, this is something that you do not want to attempt yourself!

[orion]

The only thing that scares me more than electricity and water is natural gas and fire. 

In other news he's only marginally terrified of earth and wind.   

Ohhhhhhhhh....... you didn't!   

I understand not wanting to shell out all that cash for that job, who would. Our HVAC system (gas pack and heat pump) is about 10 years old and will probably die here soon. It will be thousands of dollars to replace it. My in laws have a home warranty contract that they pay about $400.00 a year for. We had to buy one when we sold our previous place to get people to buy. It covers things like appliances and Air conditioners and boilers and such.... you might want to look into something like that before you shell out that $2000.00. I don't know much about it myself, but I am going to get the name of the company my in laws use.

[orion]

Sorry about the confusion. I am actually talking about an oil boiler to heat my home. I had no idea it was as difficult and undoable as everyone is saying. I just thought pehaps someone could point me in the direction of some reading material to help me learn the ropes. It is very hard for me to pay $1000.00 to $2000.00 for 2 days worth of labor.

Depending on local laws you may have to pay it.  I know here if that's done without a license, and something happens that requires an insurance claim, you're SOL.  First thing the adjustor will say is "let's see the permits, inspection reports, and license number of the person who did it".

That's true, around here you can't even buy parts for your HVAC unless your a licensed HVAC contractor.

[ChadTower]

I understand not wanting to shell out all that cash for that job, who would. Our HVAC system (gas pack and heat pump) is about 10 years old and will probably die here soon. It will be thousands of dollars to replace it. My in laws have a home warranty contract that they pay about $400.00 a year for. We had to buy one when we sold our previous place to get people to buy. It covers things like appliances and Air conditioners and boilers and such.... you might want to look into something like that before you shell out that $2000.00. I don't know much about it myself, but I am going to get the name of the company my in laws use.

A new system should come with a 1 year warranty included.  He wouldn't need a service plan in that year.  I had my furnace replaced in september and cancelled the service contract I had for the 24 year old furnace that was in there on the advice of the people doing the install.

[orion]

I'm not referring to a 1 year warranty that would come with a new boiler, I am talking about buying a warranty that will cover his OLD boiler (that is of course assuming he hasn't bought a new one yet) There are many companies out there that will cover anything in your house. The one I bought for our old condo ran $400.00 a year. What would happen in theory was if something broke down, for example say the heat pump, this company would replace it for free.... kind of like insurance for your mechanicals and appliances. As an example http://www.choicehomewarranty.com/
I am not endorsing this company, I have never heard of them, rather this is just an example of the kind of warranty I am referring to.

[ChadTower]

I get that, but since he's talking about replacing the one he has, we're assuming it is either really old or close to dead.  No competent service company is going to take on a new contract for a unit in that shape.

[orion]

I get that, but since he's talking about replacing the one he has, we're assuming it is either really old or close to dead.  No competent service company is going to take on a new contract for a unit in that shape.

You wouldn't think so, but these home warranty companies claim to do just that... though I would make sure that they do before getting one. This is a quote from that website I just linked to "CHW provides service on all covered home systems and appliances, regardless of age, make or model, including substantial components like heating and central air conditioning." 
My Realtor told me they would honor it, and according to my in laws, they claim to be covered when their 15 to 20 year old gas pack and heat pump goes.... though I am interested to see what happens when they have to replace them.

[ChadTower]

You wouldn't think so, but these home warranty companies claim to do just that... though I would make sure that they do before getting one. My Realtor told me they would, and according to my in laws, they claim to be covered when their 15 to 20 year old gas pack and heat pump goes.... though I am interested to see what happens when they have to replace them.

Note that I said competent service company.      You can always find some crappy vendor to cash your check.  Try getting that same vendor out to fix your equipment at 10pm on a sunday.

[orion]

I know, I'm sceptical myself, I wouldn't put any stock in the idea whatsoever, had not both my realtor and my mortgage broker suggested it.

[orion]

I've been doing a bit of research on this since I am considering this myself... basically it boils down to (pun intended!) doing your homework on each company and reading the fine print...some people clam that these services are a nightmare while others report them as being total life savers and have had heat pumps ect... replaced at no charge. Here is a good article I found on the subject. It sounds like a hit or miss affair to me.. sounds like it could cause a lot of headaches... but with AC units being around $8,000.00 to fix..... I dunno!

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/192006_home_warranty.asp

[ChadTower]

I know, I'm sceptical myself, I wouldn't put any stock in the idea whatsoever, had not both my realtor and my mortgage broker suggested it.

Those people get kickbacks, whether literal or figurative, from referrals.  Try asking neighbors and people who know who don't stand to gain anything from who you choose.

[orion]

Yep, that's one of the things that someone had commented on in that article... like I said it sounds pretty hit or miss to me... but the cost of replacing your central air... I would consider it a $400.00 gamble. I have to have someone come out seems like every summer and winter and I always seem to get hit with a $400.00 bill.... wouldn't take me long to find out if its any good. The last guy who came out told me my condenser coil might have to be replaced, and if it did I might as well replace the entire unit, as the coils have gotten ridiculously expensive. It kinda scares me. 

[daywane]

If you let daywayne play your arcade cab for a day, maybe he will do it for free: considering how easy he makes it sound 

PM sent

[daywane]

[quote author=shardian link=topic=88048.msg925259#msg925259 date=1231166524
Dawayne left out one important step in his soldering guide though - use the wire brush to clean both pieces being soldered. There is a special wire tool for standard 1/2" pipe that usually comes with the soldering kit you will buy anyways.
[/quote]
you ae correct.
I did forget that step. sorry.
I used sand paper

[Blanka]

Soldering water pipes is so 20th century. We use this in the 21st millenium:

Pex-Al-Pex pipes

Quick connects

No skills required with the quick connects and you can bend the pipes with your hands.

[Blanka]

Oh, and you can use the system for drinking water, for hot water, for connection radiators, for cooling water to air-co or floor cooling and for floor-heating 

[Blanka]

Another nice image of a Pex-Al-Pex floor-heating distributor.

[TOK]

Manifolds and plastic pipe are common in new construction here... I'm guessing Lord Todd doesn't have a new house or he wouldn't even be doing this.

[Blanka]

It can be easy combined though. Just mount the appropriate connector on the main heat pipes, and make the boiler section in new technology.