Is a Computer Engineering degree worth it?

[Paul Olson]

I have been going to school for a couple uf years now, and I am enrolled in the Civil Engineering program. I chose Civil because there are a lot of jobs available, and at age 37 (probably 40 when I graduate), I don't want to struggle to find a job. The only problem is: I am really not very interested in civil. Computers and electronics are my main interest, and that has been true forever it seems.

I am thinking of changing to Computer Engineering and maybe adding a minor in video game development. I would like to have the skills to design things like arcade encoders and all of the stuff we spend time with every day. I need to be able to make a living though.

So, what do you think? Are there still good jobs available for someone with that degree? Interest wise, I think it sounds perfect. But if I can't make a living at it, I need to do something different. I have taken about all of the core courses, so I would only be wasting a couple of civil courses, intro and surveying. I would have probably taken at least the surveying class as an elective, so I am not really losing much. I have taken a lot of classes that don't count for anything, but that is the same with either program (why did I waste all of that money at University of Phoenix? :-( ). It is pretty much now or never, if I change later, I will be wasting time since most of my remaining classes are major specific.

Thanks,
Paul

[RayB]

There's a running joke among engineers that civil engineers are the ones who couldn't get into Mechanical or Electrical engineering. 

Follow your passions. Will there be jobs? Probably. It's not an obscure field, so your only worry might be the amount of competition for jobs.

What exactly is "Computer Engineering" anyways? I've heard of going into Electrical Engineering as an avenue into the hardware side (ie: circuit board design), or "Computer Sciences" to focus on the software development side. Does Comp Eng bridge the two sides?

[Paul Olson]

I can understand the joke after taking a couple CE classes. We try to learn more here for a hobby than they want to learn for a degreee.

Here is the program I am looking at: http://www.cse.unr.edu/programs_bscie.html

[ChadTower]

Jesus, even the course descriptions are vague.  That could be teaching you some solid stuff or it could be teaching you surface only user abilities.  The descriptions are not specific enough.

Figure out what you want to do and move into that.  Too many of us start a degree program, discover 75% of the way in we don't really like it, but finish it anyway.  Then spend the next 15 years in a career that isn't fun.  Now is the time to figure out what you enjoy about engineering and chase it, even if that means taking a step or two backwards after you discover the path. 

[shardian]

A truly sad fact about engineering: most 'engineers' don't engineer anything. In most cases, you will be a salesman, a bureaucrat, glorified supervisor, or 'the guy who stamps drawings' (AKA, sacrificial lamb if things go wrong).

I wish I had never went into engineering.

[HaRuMaN]

Speak for yourself...

I'm in engineering, I do 'engineering' tasks... and I enjoy my job...

[shardian]

Speak for yourself...

I'm in engineering, I do 'engineering' tasks... and I enjoy my job...

I do engineering tasks too. Unfortunately I had to take a lower paying job to keep from being one of the non-engineering engineers.

The realities I came to know during and after my senior year really turned me off from the field. Maybe it is different in your neck of the woods, or maybe you have a PhD or something. I personally have no desire to get a masters in Engineering since I know it won't do me any good.

I also have a family friend who double-majored in Mechanical and Aerospace, then went directly into a masters program. He came to the same realizations I did when the real world came calling. He also settled for a lower paying job close to home (Blacksburg, VA) to actually do engineering tasks.

[HaRuMaN]

Just a B.S.

I work in Aerospace.

On a side note, I went to college in Blacksburg... Virginia Tech alumn...  Go Hokies!

[shardian]

On a side note, I went to college in Blacksburg... Virginia Tech alumn...  Go Hokies!

I could have been at the game this weekend. My bro-in-law is a huge fan, and he had extra tickets and a place to stay. Plane trip was only $30 each way. Wife offered to let me go as my Christmas present. I smelled 'evil woman trap', so I politely declined. 

After seeing all those people in T-shirts on TV, then looking out the window at the 18 degree and snow, I felt pretty stupid for passing. 

[HaRuMaN]

The stands were pretty empty... no matter what section your tickets were, you probably could have moved down to an awesome seat!

[Paul Olson]

Jesus, even the course descriptions are vague.  That could be teaching you some solid stuff or it could be teaching you surface only user abilities.  The descriptions are not specific enough.

Figure out what you want to do and move into that.  Too many of us start a degree program, discover 75% of the way in we don't really like it, but finish it anyway.  Then spend the next 15 years in a career that isn't fun.  Now is the time to figure out what you enjoy about engineering and chase it, even if that means taking a step or two backwards after you discover the path. 

I am hoping that the courses will teach a lot. I talked to one of the instructors on Friday, and he at least seems interested in the subjects, so there is hope. I took a surveying class this semester; the instructor only agreed to teach because all he had to do was read a powerpoint every day and give tests. About halfway through, he decided to actually teach, and it turned out OK, but it was bad in the beginning. I already took an intro programming course, and I am pretty confident that at least the next one will bbe good.

Nearly every civil major I have talked to has said the same thing. "I just need to graduate, I don't need to learn all of this". It is sad seeing more than 90% of the class not even trying.

I decided that I would rather face a possibly harder time finding a job in Computer Engineering, than live with a boring job in Civil. I need to make the change now before I take more classes in civil. I have heard from quite a few people that CE is a good degree to find work with, so I might not even be making it harder to find a job. In the current economy, civil is not that great for jobs either. There are a lot of guys getting laid off around here.

Thanks for the input!

Paul

[RayB]

People are getting laid off in every field, so don't take that as a measure of what your job market will be in 4  years from now.

To add to the above, the University you go to matters too. Go to Waterloo (Ontario). 

[ChadTower]

Nearly every civil major I have talked to has said the same thing. "I just need to graduate, I don't need to learn all of this". It is sad seeing more than 90% of the class not even trying.

This observation alone should be enough to tell you what the field is like once you graduate.  Do you think lousy students turn out to be strong workers?

[Paul Olson]

Yeah, that is what made me start thinking about making a change.

[(+_+)]

I'd do it if that's what interests you. Don't forget, you still have 20 years of work ahead of you. Better to do something you like than to do something you already have a gut feeling about that you won't. Also, just a warning about Game programming at your age. It may not be good for your health and family. I couldn't find the page that contained the article I wanted to post. I read it years back and no matter how much I love games (and believe me I do) and my desire to write games, it scared me away taking the plunge. I believe I was about 30 at the time. 60 to 80 hour weeks, lower salary than other IT areas. This is especially truth at the intro level.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-139833.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2655/so_you_want_to_be_a_game_.php

[ChadTower]

I read it years back and no matter how much I love games (and believe me I do) and my desire to write games, it scared me away taking the plunge. I believe I was about 30 at the time. 60 to 80 hour weeks, lower salary than other IT areas. This is especially truth at the intro level.

That's pretty much right and what moved me away from that field.  Not a ton of it to be had in MA anyway but what I was able to find around here was all very long hours and lower pay than the same level of programming in any other area.  They count on the fact that guys want to do it rather than just want to make a living.  I have a wife and kids I'd rather be with.

[RayB]

Yeah, that is what made me start thinking about making a change.

On the other hand, will those 90% lazy asses actually get jobs? Good jobs? Get promoted, etc? Could be good for you after all. 

[ark_ader]

I'm a big believer when it comes to computer or IT related skills, that you should have experience.  The only way to get that experience is working with the material in a live environment.  The catch 22 is getting employed when you have no skills.  So I always advise people who are truly or keenly interested in the field, is to go into self study.

All my main core IT skills I achieved was in doing.  Of coarse most of the technologies that are in use today did not exist when I started out, but when something new arrived I was on the scene.  My genre was networking.  I could foresee networking being the next big thing, next to computer repair.  The level of study was incredible.

If I have to guide someone today, I would advise self study.  Build a lab and get some experience, join a start up or temp into an existing company via helpdesk.  Get the degree when you can afford it.  I cannot remember how many clueless dolts  I had to train who had degrees fresh from college.  They knew the mechanics, but could not put into practice any current skills in a live environment.

Yes there is something to having a Computer Science degree.  An employer will look at that degree thinking the guy or gal had what it took to achieve the goal, and would take that achievement and use it for the good of the company.  Or a degree can put you on a short list of candidates suitable for the job.  I don't believe in that crap.

I hire people that have the experience or the desire to learn.  the cost of getting the degree in the first place should be enough to deter most in this most saturated field.

So nope it is not worth it, until you are a skilled and successful IT tech, and want the challenge to cap off your skills when you are older and more patient to get anything from it. 

[Paul Olson]

I'm already there with the older part. I graduated from High School around the time most of the kids at school were born. I am already 2 years into it, so I will be getting a degree, the only question is which one. I have a friend who is a game developer, and I will be having a long chat with him pretty soon. I signed up for an intro class on the video game emphasis. It will be interesting if nothing else, although it did bump me up to 20 credits for the semester.

I tried to work for a long time without going to school, and I don't think it is worth it. Most people who are good at what they do will do pretty well without a degree, but they would be better off with the degree. In our society, that diploma is worth a lot, whether trying to find a job, or trying to get promoted later. I do agree about waiting though. A lot of the kids at school don't really want to learn anything, and they don't try. The older guys like me, who have had crappy jobs for 20 years or so, well, we are just a lot more motivated to learn.

I switched my schedule today. Just the idea of taking classes that interest me was enough to help me make the decision. I don't know how it will turn out, but the idea of actually having a job that is line with my interests is very nice. It sounds like the job market is actually pretty good around here, so that is a plus also. It will take a lot more work now, but I am way more willing to work hard at something I enjoy.

It has been about a year since I took a programming class, I guess I better do a bit of self-study over the break. 

[DaveStall]

We hire both Computer and Electrical Engineers where I work (I am a EE myself) and the core classes are pretty much the same.  When you get into the last year and a half or so, when the EEs are taking more advanced electrical classes, the computer engineering guys are taking programming classes.  One thing to note however is that the level of programming you get into isn't nearly as deep as a computer science major would be taking.  We would never consider hiring a computer engineer to do serious code work.  If you are really serious of getting into game development you would be much better served by getting a computer science degree.  Regardless, all three choices are good ones as the number of people graduating in electrical engineering and computer science is so low right now that companies are not able to fill their needs.  Unless the economy completely disintegrates, you won't have any problem getting a job in either engineering choice or computer science.

Then again, with the amount of work we might be seeing in infrastructure development over the next few years, civil engineering might be a pretty decent field to be in as well.

Dave