What to do during Fumble?

[shardian]

During break, we were watching Sportscenter. They showed the fumble during MNF where the Pats defenders kept trying to pick it up and run with it. I said "WTF were they thinking! You're supposed to fall on the damn ball". My Coworker then said college and pro coaches teach players to 'Scoop and Score'. I then said I have NEVER heard of any coach teaching that dumbass philosophy. Trying to pick up the ball during a fumble has like a 90% epic fail ratio.

So, has anyone else ever heard of a coach actively teaching his players to try and pick up a loose ball?

[ChadTower]

Yes, I have heard it I don't know how many times.  It really depends on the defensive coaching philosophy.  Some will want you to just get the turnover.  Others actively teach that if there is the chance to score the risk is worth taking - they feel a TD is worth a couple of turnovers so if you only succeed 50% of the time it comes out the same.  It does seem the higher you go in competitive level the more they teach scoop and score. 

So you can't really vote one or the other - both are taught depending on what the coaches want. 

I have seen hybrids, too.  Some coaches will tell the smaller players to scoop and the bigger guys to fall on it.  Theory there is that the smaller guys have a much higher probability of being able to pull it off than a guy who weighs 300lb and isn't going to outrun anyone even if he gets it.

EDIT:  Just remembered another factor.  I played for a coach that told us to scoop if the ball is outside the hashmarks, fall inside the hash.  Theory there is that outside the hash you are almost never going to get caught by anyone on the other side of the field, reducing the amount of opponents that have a chance to get to you.

[Ginsu Victim]

This is what I do for every scoop. It's what coach used to call the "bean dip".

[Kevin Mullins]

It does seem the higher you go in competitive level the more they teach scoop and score. 

Agreed.
Players abilities get better as they grow into higher levels. So the probability of pulling off a scoop and score get higher.

From a mid-high school to high school level point of view ...... fall on the ball.
And even then it not only tends to be based on the coaches mentality but the players abilities. We have a couple players that can pull it off every time, yet it's taught to play it safe and fall on the ball. Whether it's our own fumble or the other teams, the idea is that WE get the ball.

So yeah, mixed bag of theory and opinions on that subject.   

[JamIt]

Also, don't discount game elements such as time on clock and field position.  Coaches often will lean one way or the other based on these elements.

From my (now) Fantasy football perspective, I'd wish the Eagles would scoop and score given any opportunity 

[ChadTower]

From my (now) Fantasy football perspective, I'd wish the Eagles would scoop and score given any opportunity 

Next time draft the Buccaneers.  They are the masters.

[Malenko]

I was taught fall on the ball. Coach said "its better you fall on it and not go anywhere then for the other team to get it".

[hypernova]

What's the difference?  NFL players can't even properly fall on the damn thing.  It still manages to pass through two or three sets of hands.  It really baffles me how a ball can be practically motionless on the field, and some idiot comes flying in and can't grasp the thing.

I would say in the middle of the field, you'll see more falling, but outside the tackle box and where the lines clash, where the quicker players are, they will attempt a scoop.

[ChadTower]

What's the difference?  NFL players can't even properly fall on the damn thing.  It still manages to pass through two or three sets of hands.  It really baffles me how a ball can be practically motionless on the field, and some idiot comes flying in and can't grasp the thing.

Try it sometime.  Footballs bounce in unpredictable ways, you are moving at 100% effort with no regard to precision, and every other player isn't going for the ball.  Every opposing player near but not close enough to the ball is taught to ignore the ball and hit you.  So maybe you have a perfect bead on the ball when you dive for it but that changes when the first person dives at your legs, the second one at your back, and the third at your head.

[shardian]

What's the difference?  NFL players can't even properly fall on the damn thing.  It still manages to pass through two or three sets of hands.  It really baffles me how a ball can be practically motionless on the field, and some idiot comes flying in and can't grasp the thing.

Try it sometime.  Footballs bounce in unpredictable ways, you are moving at 100% effort with no regard to precision, and every other player isn't going for the ball.  Every opposing player near but not close enough to the ball is taught to ignore the ball and hit you.  So maybe you have a perfect bead on the ball when you dive for it but that changes when the first person dives at your legs, the second one at your back, and the third at your head.

This was perfectly shown during the Michigan/Penn State game. Penn State player tried to scoop a ball at like the 5 yard line. A Michigan player flew in and went straight for his legs as he touched the ball. Michigan ended up keeping the ball.

If he would have fell on it, Penn State would have had 1st and goal.

That reminds me of another point that makes me wonder the logic of teaching scoop in higher levels of the game. In the NFL, even the defensive ends are damn fast. The second it takes a skill player to lean over to get the ball would let a linebacker or tight end close almost 10 yards. It is almost impossible for a fumble to land more than 10 yards away from a group of players.

[ChadTower]

No, but you're only counting on one guy.  A swarm style of defense, which most nfl teams use now, would have 5 guys around the ball by the time everyone knows it is out.  You have to figure that it takes 3-4 seconds for everyone to realize the fumble has happened.  A lot of time it just comes down to who notices the fumble first.  If that person is near the ball, they try to scoop, and if they aren't near it they scream FUMBLE at which point guys just start knocking the crap out of any opponent near them because of the "if you can't get it make sure an opponent can't either" strategy.

As for that scenario you present, a lot of coaches will gladly take that risk because there is no downside.  Either you get a game changing TD off defense or you have Michigan trapped inside their own 5.  It's win-win and you go for the strip on the next play.  Football is all about risk and percentages and when there are no negative scenarios you generally go for the gold.

[ChadTower]

Best... block... I've seen in a long time.

[hypernova]

What's the difference?  NFL players can't even properly fall on the damn thing.  It still manages to pass through two or three sets of hands.  It really baffles me how a ball can be practically motionless on the field, and some idiot comes flying in and can't grasp the thing.

Try it sometime.  Footballs bounce in unpredictable ways, you are moving at 100% effort with no regard to precision, and every other player isn't going for the ball.  Every opposing player near but not close enough to the ball is taught to ignore the ball and hit you.  So maybe you have a perfect bead on the ball when you dive for it but that changes when the first person dives at your legs, the second one at your back, and the third at your head.

My point is there are plenty of times that the ball is just sitting there screaming to be fell on, and they still can't do it right, even when there's no one to affect their attempt.  I'm not discounting the difficulty of doing it while it is in motion, I'm referring to the times when it is just sitting there, lightly rocking back and forth, or otherwise not moving much at all.

That was a sweet block.

[Kevin Mullins]

Best... block... I've seen in a long time.

Hell yeah !! 
There's no better hit than when they don't even see it coming.
(yet I wouldn't go as far as to call them dumb ... they were just focused on the ball)

Gotta plug High School Football while I'm at it. 

[ChadTower]

There's no better hit than when they don't even see it coming.

Erm, yeah there is.  It's better when they see it coming and you decleat them anyway because you're just better than they are.  The best part of a football game is the fourth quarter in a close game when one team buckles down to run out the clock on the ground.  You know you're going to run, they know you're going to run, so let's line up and see who is still standing in 5 minutes.

As for picking up a nonmoving ball... it's still harder than you're saying.  Leave a ball in traffic and then run over and pick it up between cars.