UPDATED! *New Design* UAII - Critique My Control Panel

[web.geek]

I am beginning the design phase of my second cab. I completed my first almost 4 years ago using the Ultimate Arcade II plans. I was pretty happy with that cab, so I will be using UAII again. Unfortunately, I didn't really document the process on that one, but I have a pseudo-project site with a few pictures of the finished project.

Meanwhile, I am going to document the heck out of this one. So I would like to begin by posting my conceptual design for the 2-player CP for feedback. Thanks for everyone's help here, even though you may not have been aware you were helping!

Updated pic (Sep-20-2008)

[web.geek]

I am also looking for cpo suggestions. I was considering one design for the top level and an alternate design for the 1p and 2p level. While I consider my self "technically" creative, I am nowhere near "artistically" creative. Any ideas?

[somunny]

Personally, I like the "double-decker" designs and think they look very interesting when built, however:

• IMO, there's way too much unused real estate on that top deck.  I think it benefit you to streamline the layout up there.
• I don't get the six button config for players 1 and 2.  Doesn't seem very ergonomic to me - but - you're the one who has to play it. 

[web.geek]

Thanks for the feedback. I figured I might have to explain myself on some of the layout choices.

		1		2			3
	4		5
		6

I figured I would use a 6-button layout, even though I didn't use many of the 6-button games on my first cab. I would say that 85-95% of the games we played use only 1-3. The layout was chosen to accomodate the vanguard button layout, since this is a game I would likely to play. I should be able to remap buttons 4, 5, and 6 as necessary in mame, right?

I also realize that there is unused real estate on the top level. Any ideas how I can improve it? I don't want to move the controls too far from the front, because I don't want people to have to over reach. I also don't want to put the controls too close to the display. Any thoughts on improving the layout?

Now that I look at my 1st cab design, it does appear that I could spare 2-3 inches in depth. That might help...I'll mod and post an update

[web.geek]

Updated pic in original post.

I really want a dedicated 4-way diagonal, because Q-bert was always a favorite of mine; but I don't like the placement. Not sure there is much to be done about it, however, because I want minimal interference with the trackball (for Golden Tee). All suggestions are welcome.

More cp explanation:
* Wanted Robotron/Smash TV layout for each player
* Must have dedicated 4-way for Ms Pac Man, Donkey Kong, etc
* Wanted top fire joystick for games like BattleZone (any others?)
* Need trackball room for Golden Tee
* 2" Front lip on CP for attaching USB Steering Wheel (other options?)

[web.geek]

So here is a new design from the ground up. My goals:

Dedicated 4-way joystick for Ms. Pac Man (for the wife)
Diagonal 4-way for Q*bert (I can't seem to play it any other way)
Dual joysticks per player for Smash TV, etc.
Rotary joysticks for Ikari Warriors, etc.
Top Fire joysticks for Battlezone, etc.
Dual spinners for Sprint, Arkanoid II, etc.
Trackball (obviously)
Vanguard button layout (since fighters aren't that important to me)

Thoughts?

[javeryh]

I think you are trying to cram too much on one CP.  At the very least I'd reconfigure the 6 buttons for each player into something Street Fighter friendly.  I don't know.  I hate critiquing CPs because what's good for me might not be good for you.  I wouldn't put something on a MAME CP for one game only unless it is a game you absolutely positively can't live without.  For example, Ikari Warriors is a fine game but I would never go through the trouble of adding proper controls for it and sacrifice the aesthetics and playability of a bunch of other stuff.  If you want an "all-in-one" CP I'm not sure it exists but there are lots of elegant ones that play 90% of what's out there just fine.  That's just me though...   

[somunny]

My opinions (again):

• Get rid of the group of three buttons (presumably for Missle Command - unless you are a huge fan).  It's easier to use three buttons from the P1 or P2 six button groupings.
• I would also get rid of at least one group of two buttons adjacent to the left hand four-way.  Again, just my opinion.
• Go back to the double-deck design!  You don't see them very often.

[Keroppi]

+1 for the double decker. A much more interesting design than the re-do.

[Mauxe]

Have you considered looking at using a rotating control panel?

I have been working out how to fit all of my controls on a single board and decided that I really like the idea (challenge?) of seperating into 3 seperate panels.

The 2-tiered layout does look cool though - I especially like the way that P! and P2 are flared out to the side to make room for the trackball.

[DaveMMR]

I vote to go back to the Double Decker as well but less controls would be better.  Personally, I've never missed a second spinner and every control uses the same cache of buttons.  Sometimes less is more, at least to make the panel more friendly to guests. 

Sorry, I'm totally not digging the six button layout you have.  I read your reasoning but when you're go to play SFII (one of the few reasons to have six buttons in the first place anyhow), you or you're guests are going to be hating it. 

But at least you're joysticks aren't angled anymore. 

[web.geek]

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone! It helps me with my OCD and Perfectionist nature

I have been cruising klov.com and prioritizing the games I would play if I had all of the ROMs . It has convinced me that there are more 6-button games that hold my interest than I originally thought; therefore, I am going back to a more traditional button layout.

DaveMMR - I have seen other debates about angling the joysticks. What is the biggest drawback with angling them? Wouldn't the angle be intuitive in my double deck design where P1 and P2 CPs are angled out?

Mauxe - I have been thinking more about multiple specialized CPs, but I would probably go with swappable instead of rotating. Have you designed/built your CP yet?

[DaveMMR]

DaveMMR - I have seen other debates about angling the joysticks. What is the biggest drawback with angling them? Wouldn't the angle be intuitive in my double deck design where P1 and P2 CPs are angled out?

Intuitive?  The answer is: "it depends".   Forget about authenticity for a second, my whole argument with angling joysticks is that you're assuming someone is going to be standing square with the controls.  Even with the shape of the wood guiding people, angled sticks leave little room for error.  The Gauntlet CP is always my favorite example.  The outer controls were still lined up with the monitor so people could space themselves out any which way but still know, intuitively, which way is up. 

If you do a search (which you have, I see), some people swear that there are no problems with the angled sticks while others regret the design decision, saying that there's weird discombobulation when trying to move, some even being accused of assigning friends "broken sticks".

But forget about 4-player cabs and let me address more specifically, your layout since you asked: As much as I'm not a fan of angling sticks on 4-player CP's, there is absolutely no need to angle sticks on a 2-player cabinet.   Many builders, myself including, have had no problem fitting 2 people with as little as 24" width.   (For the record, my panel is 25" - trackball, spinner and 6-buttons each - with not so much as an elbow, accidental bump, etc. during a game - and I'm a big dude.)   Just looking at my cab while standing at 45-degrees to the screen, I can tell you right now it's not as optimal as it would be to stare straight at it while playing. 

[web.geek]

Okay, I think I'm going with this double decker design. I mocked it up in cardboard, and the control positions feel pretty comfortable. One final question though.

I tested Championship Sprint (a favorite "wheel" game) using the trackball, and it was very playable (in fact I may have improved over using the wheel). I then tried Discs of Tron and the crosshair was very jittery. Has anyone gotten DoT playable with a trackball instead of a spinner? How about Arkanoid? If I can get those games to play with the trackball, I can avoid adding spinners.

[DaveMMR]

AFAIK, I don't recall very many 4-way games that were 2-player simo (oops - see edit).  (I found 40 results in MAWS using those requirements and that includes clones).  I would ditch one and put the single 4-way in between the 2 trackballs so 12-year-olds can giggle and you'll give each Marble Madness participant a little more room.  Or just add a single spinner where you'd put the rightmost 4-way.   

EDIT: I just noticed the rightmost 4-way is angled, which I assume is for Q*Bert/Congo Bongo.  Disregard most of above, though I would still space out the trackballs a little.  You have the room, it seems.   

[arzoo]

As an owner of a two-deck cp, I'm definitely a fan. I really liked the look of your first design, but it's best if the p1 and p2 controls are not angled. One thing you could do is swap out the sticks on the top deck for a single u360 (which can be programmed as a 4-way diag for Qbert). Then you'll have room for a spinner which I would definitely include.

[web.geek]

Here is a new design for your viewing pleasure. All  comments welcome

Edit: I also have a question about encoders for this layout over here

[DaveMMR]

Woo-Hoo, it looks like a bra!  Just kidding - it has the shape, yes, but it'll look different when the controls are on it. 

It looks good.  Maybe put a button on either side of the trackball (for ambidextrous play) or take them off entirely (for more room).   Also, if you want buttons by the trackball, keep in mind that one of the few dual-trackball games is Cabal and it has two action buttons (fire and grenade).   

[web.geek]

Woo-Hoo, it looks like a bra!  Just kidding - it has the shape, yes, but it'll look different when the controls are on it. 

Oh my god, you are right! Must have been a Freudian thing, but now that's all I see. 

It looks good.  Maybe put a button on either side of the trackball (for ambidextrous play) or take them off entirely (for more room).   Also, if you want buttons by the trackball, keep in mind that one of the few dual-trackball games is Cabal and it has two action buttons (fire and grenade).   

Great advice. I have been crawling through MAWS trying to maximize options while minimizing controls. Thanks for the catch.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Love the multi-tiered design.

[web.geek]

Final Design. All buttons, joysticks, and trackballs have been ordered.

I am looking for help on the upper deck graphics. I am no artist  , but I tried to "simulate" what I was looking for. I need a 3-1/2 inch blue glow around the left trackball and a 3-1/2 inch red glow around the right one. Lightning of the corresponding color should sprawl out from each glow. I used the sample from mamemarquees.com to do the mock-up, but I need a standard "300 dpi" version for printing. I am looking to match this marquee. If anyone would be willing to freelance this, pm me with a quote. The dimensions are roughly 36" wide by 11" high (at the tallest points). I can provide more exact dimensions.

Thanks for everyone's input.

[DeLuSioNal29]

When I designed my marquee, I also mocked up the lightning background in lo res.  I just told Scott at Mamemarquees.com to replace it with a high res version on his end of things and it worked out perfectly.

Maybe you can ask him?

~ DeLuSioNaL

[somunny]

Take your time on the cpo and, if need be, hire someone to get what you're looking for.  The unique design deserves equally unique artwork, IMO.

[pinballwizard79]

I would move the joys & buttons up far enough where your hands can actually rest on the control panel.

Otherwise its going to feel like you are standing up & typing.

Just my $0.02

[swaffar]

hey... i can't help but notice you have your pinball buttons on the sides of the upper deck.  first of all, that's gonna feel strange.  second (and most importantly, you MUST use two different buttons.  one for flapper and one for nudge.  otherwise you'll kill every play with TILT and it'll be useless.  you could just not assign a nudge, but i wouldn't recommend it.  you could simply use your player 1/2 coin and start for these and assign a different button to pinball coin, start, plunger.

just some things to think about.  not sure how important pinball is to you, but i find myself playing pins as much as arcade games.

[web.geek]

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't updated this thread in a while, because I have been re-thinking the whole design. I am becoming more and more disenchanted with the fankenpanel, double-decker idea. I must be reading too many resto threads 

I am leaning toward swappable panels: 1 for two-player/two-joystick and 1 for for two-trackball/one-4way. I'm even re-thinking the UAII cab and using Lusid's or another design.

hey... i can't help but notice you have your pinball buttons on the sides of the upper deck.  first of all, that's gonna feel strange.  second (and most importantly, you MUST use two different buttons.  one for flapper and one for nudge.  otherwise you'll kill every play with TILT and it'll be useless. 

Regarding your original comment, I do have separate nudge buttons. They are under the flipper buttons. It's just hard to represent in a 2-D top view drawing. I too was not happy about the upper level pinball buttons, but since pinball was secondary, I was still deciding what to do. The location in the design was sort of a "placeholder."

[cmoses]

Been looking at a lot of control panel threads as I will soon be planning my own.  I have a couple of questions, most of these I have asked myself in trying to determine what I want and what I need on my panel.  I just acquired a NFL Blitz 99 cabinet and will be using the 4 player control panel, but converting it to a 2 player.  I want there to be plenty of room, something that was lacking on my first cabinet.

1. Do you really need the dual trackballs?  I orignally thought about this as well, but really only know of one game, Marble Madness, that would use it.  They could be used in racing games for steering but I do not think that would be the best option.  Also how often, in the grand scheme of things, will you have two player playing Marble Madness.

2. Dual spinners would be used more.  All the racing games, Super Sprint, Ivan Stewart Off Road, Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat, Fire Truck, etc.  Would allow you to use the spinners for steering and the buttons for gas, brake, etc. 

3. I think your Pinball buttons all need to be on the outside of the control panel, perpindicular to the screen.  Even if your control panel is wide it will feel more natural there.  I would also recommend they be on the same level horizontally and not one on top of the other.

4. If you use U360's you get the advantage of using the maps and would not have to have a dedicated 4-way in the middle.  They map for diagonal games and work great with Q*bert and Congo Bongo.

Hope this makes sense.