Vinyl rules !

[Level42]

Just bought Amy Winehouse's Back to Black on 100 gr. vinyl and man does it sound sweet on my Technics SL 1410 with Empire cartridge.

No digital medium beats good old vinyl.

Period.

[Ginsu Victim]

(Insert Amy Winehouse joke here)

[Level42]

Pffff, I don't give a ---Cleveland steamer---.

I enjoy the music and don't give a ---Cleveland steamer--- about what artists do in their free time.

Much like people should judge politicians.....judge their work, not their private life.

[ChadTower]

This is why he had to go to rehab... and he bought a missle command cabaret.

[Ginsu Victim]

Pffff, I don't give a ---Cleveland steamer---.

I enjoy the music and don't give a ---Cleveland steamer--- about what artists do in their free time.

Much like people should judge politicians.....judge their work, not their private life.

So if a really good album came out, but the artist sent a dollar from every sale to NAMBLA, you'd be cool with that?

[CheffoJeffo]

Oh yeah, vinyl's awesome.  Lots of hiss and popping.  Just great.  No loss of fidelity AT ALL.

Get out of the 70s.  Being in love with vinyl isn't even retro-cool anymore.

And tube amps suck too, don't they Jim ?

My uncle is a maniacal audiophile and his turntable and tube amps sound better than anything I have ever heard before. Sadly, I have to wait until he dies to experience that kind of quality on a regular basis.

Maybe you should stick to stuff that you know something about ... or have at least taken the time to Google ...

[mountain]

Oh yeah, vinyl's awesome.  Lots of hiss and popping.  Just great.  No loss of fidelity AT ALL.

A well cared for vinyl record on a quality player will always sound better than digital. It is actually a GAIN in fidelity.

Get out of the 70s. 

Something funny about saying that on this site...

[RayB]

No hiss and pops on a new record. Play it on a laser turntable and you'll NEVER get any wear.

[ratzz]

Vinyl rules ...

Its not just the warmth from the recording, but its the whole experience of vinyl.

Big artwork etc., makes for a much more pleasant music experience.

Problem is, it so bloody expensive now, and I can't get some of my old stuff on vinyl any more.

[ChadTower]

Sadly, I have to wait until he dies to experience that kind of quality on a regular basis.

Nice priorities.   

Why are you guys letting jim troll you again?

[Ginsu Victim]

No hiss and pops on a new record. Play it on a laser turntable and you'll NEVER get any wear.

They make LASER ones?!?

[CheffoJeffo]

Why are you guys letting jim troll you again?

Because you've been slacking ...

[DaveMMR]

Oh yeah, vinyl's awesome.  Lots of hiss and popping.  Just great.  No loss of fidelity AT ALL.

It's not a problem if you give even a minimum amount of care. Maybe you should try cleaning your records before playing them.     Storing them properly helps too!

They make LASER ones?!?

Yes they do, but they are expensive.  Personally, I'll stick with the stylus until I win a lottery or something.

Level42, where do you buy your current release vinyl?  I usually go online to find them (my latest and favorite acquisition: Nirvana's Nevermind) but I see prices are getting a little out of hand for what I used to get for the price of a CD.  

There was a Virgin Megastore in my area near the mall (Westbury for you LI-ers) but they closed down.  They had lots of good recent releases on vinyl.  

[DaveMMR]

Modern recordings that were mastered for CDs sounding better on vinyl?  Get real.

Modern recordings recorded digitally also exhibit limitations.   I pulled the ole "Bob Dylan" argument out before...

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/08/71636

...but it makes sense. 

But whatever, Jim.  If you dislike vinyl, whatever.  Have a nice day. 

[Edgedamage]

Oh yeah, vinyl's awesome.  Lots of hiss and popping.  Just great.  No loss of fidelity AT ALL.



Get out of the 70s.  Being in love with vinyl isn't even retro-cool anymore.

Maybe if you worked in professional audio you would know what you were talking about. You must pay Saint some good cash to still be here, any other forums you would have been tossed on your ass 2651 posts ago.
"The resurgence of vinyl centers on a long-standing debate over analog versus digital sound. Digital recordings capture samples of sound and place them very close together as a complete package that sounds nearly identical to continuous sound to many people.
Analog recordings on most LPs are continuous, which produces a truer sound -- though, paradoxically, some new LP releases are being recorded and mixed digitally but delivered analog."

"A digital recording is not capturing the complete sound wave. It is approximating it with a series of steps. Some sounds that have very quick transitions, such as a drum beat or a trumpet's tone, will be distorted because they change too quickly for the sample rate.
In your home stereo the CD or DVD player takes this digital recording and converts it to an analog signal, which is fed to your amplifier. The amplifier then raises the voltage of the signal to a level powerful enough to drive your speaker.
A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog. It can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion. This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound. But there is a downside, any specks of dust or damage to the disc can be heard as noise or static. During quiet spots in songs this noise may be heard over the music. Digital recordings don't degrade over time, and if the digital recording contains silence, then there will be no noise."

Like it or not as soon as you convert analog to digital you loose information. But PJ you are smarter than everyone here so I will just walk it off.

PS. For the record I do work in a professional audio environment.

[Edgedamage]

Maybe if you worked in professional audio you would know what you were talking about.

Oh come now.  I gotta be a professional to listen to music?

 

Anyway, yes, you repeated my main point.  Lots (all?) of modern vinyl releases are from recordings that were made and mixed digitally.  Whenever I see some hipster clutching a new record and talking about fidelity I feel sorry for him.  :/


I'm with you guys on the old stuff.  There's some music from the 60s I enjoy, and the mp3s and CDs that are available are -terrible-.   The masters are lost and the musicians' minds are gone.  Short of spending $500 on a sealed LP there's not much I can do, and I wouldn't be able to open it anyway.  :/

Anyway troll bait what I meant was before opening your mouth and sticking your foot in it do a little research first. Pro trolls always create two user names I bet your first one was Tommy. Do you think I am picking on you? Well hmmm...someone who spends as much time as you do on a public forum, posts stupidity for the most part, needs a hobby. How about shutting us all up and build the best Mame cab ever seen here. I built a cab have you?

[CheffoJeffo]

[DaveMMR]

I'm with you guys on the old stuff.  There's some music from the 60s I enjoy, and the mp3s and CDs that are available are -terrible-.   The masters are lost and the musicians' minds are gone.  Short of spending $500 on a sealed LP there's not much I can do, and I wouldn't be able to open it anyway.  :/

Who's spending $500 on old stuff?  I buy records from the 60's, 70's and 80's, unsealed (with few exceptions you don't want sealed that old - the shrink wrap after all this time may have warped the record, and records outside of the US were not shrink-wrapped) for $5 or $6 tops and they still sound good.   Again, they were well taken care of (e.g. not left outside the sleeve).   

[saint]

Maybe if you worked in professional audio you would know what you were talking about. You must pay Saint some good cash to still be here, any other forums you would have been tossed on your ass 2651 posts ago.

paypal to saint@arcadecontrols.com

I can't tell the difference but I'm not an audiophile by any means. I do know several musicians, and they all swear that vinyl has the best sound.

[Edgedamage]

Maybe if you worked in professional audio you would know what you were talking about. You must pay Saint some good cash to still be here, any other forums you would have been tossed on your ass 2651 posts ago.

paypal to saint@arcadecontrols.com

I can't tell the difference but I'm not an audiophile by any means. I do know several musicians, and they all swear that vinyl has the best sound.

Nice to see you still find us funny after all these years. 

[ChadTower]

Because you've been slacking ...

Hey!  I'm not a troll.  I'm a wise ass.

[Edgedamage]

Because you've been slacking ...

Hey!  I'm not a troll.  I'm a wise ass.

At least you know what you are talking about. So I guess you are wise for an ass.

[ChadTower]

At least you know what you are talking about. So I guess you are wise for an ass.

I know you know I know what I'm talking about... but do they know I know you know I know?

[Edgedamage]

At least you know what you are talking about. So I guess you are wise for an ass.

I know you know I know what I'm talking about... but do they know I know you know I know?

[Singapura]

Yo Level, to bad I missed you when I was in Holland  . I could have brought you some very nice vinyls from Singapore. There's a large audio scene here with everything from turntables to Imods. I'm more into portable stuff myself but there are some guys with tables costing upward from EUR5000.

oh, and before people start ranting about audiophools, try googling for sales figures for vinyl. Former CD buyers left that media in the shop and bought online and... on vinyl.

[bishmasterb]

Just curious:

Is the claim from vinyl enthusiasts:

A) Vinyl reproduces content more accurately (to the source material) than CD digital audio
B) Vinyl reproduces content more accurately (to the source material) than is possible by any conceivable digital recording method
C) Vinyl produces a sound that is more pleasing to the ear
D) Something I'm missing
E) Some combination of the above choices
F) "Do not attempt to question the audiophile gods mortal!"

[mameotron]

Actually, when you get down to the quantum level, there is no smooth analog curve.  Electrons jump from one shell to the next in discrete steps, much like digital waveforms.  My quantum CD player has the best possible sound.  Period.


Come on, are we still having the analog vs. digital argument?  I thought that was over 20 years ago.  I do agree with Dylan's rant about modern media,  but only if we're talking about MP3s.  Talk about a craptacular loss of quality...

[mpm32]

For a recording to truly sound better than digital it must be;

Recorded in analog
Mixed/Engineered in analog
And mastered in analog

Add digital in there at any point and due to the nature of it you will be missing bits.

In the olden days, lol when there were still a ton of analogue studios there used to be something called the SPARS code on the back of CD's.

I would always look for AAD feeling that this would give me the best sound.  (Analog Recording, Analog Mixing and Digital Mastering.  On a CD there will always be a D at the end for mastering.


There is a resurgence for analog recording and I think there will be some new analogue studios that will be popping up.  But as long as people love their pro tools digital will always be number one.
I'm pretty sure The White Stripes and The Raconteurs record, mix and master to analog.  There are many others and it is a good idea to research before making a purchase of a new artist on vinyl.  A digital master stamped onto vinyl will most time sound like crap.  Get the CD.  But if you find some all analog process on vinyl, there is nothing warmer and real sounding.  The caveat being a good engineer and mastering.

Most of today's recordings are so over-compressed for the loudness wars and so over processed and produced that they end up sounding so plastic.

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.htm

Take James Brown's Sex Machine, if you get a good recording you can hear Melvin Parker's bass drum pedal squeaking.  That lends a certain realness to the recording.  Today that would be processed out or they would've fixed it and made him play it again where it may have lost something.



P.S.  I am a musician I don't just play one on TV.


Spinning my vinyl on a Thorens TD147.  When I have the time, which is rarely.

[bishmasterb]

Actually, when you get down to the quantum level, there is no smooth analog curve.  Electrons jump from one shell to the next in discrete steps, much like digital waveforms.

That is until you get down to the sub-quantum ether, at which point, continuous smooth motion returns and the possibility of true hi-hi emerges!    

[mpm32]

Oh and be careful of the 80 gram, 100 gram pressings.  They try to make you think that it will sound better.

But if you have a crappy recording pressed into a 100 gram record all you will get is a heavier piece of crap.

The above does not hold true for good recordings.  When you can find them I would get the heavier pressing.

But then again this depends on the record pressing plant.  It it much more difficult to get good consistent pressings especially since most of the knowledge base was lost with the closing of most of the plants.

[danny_galaga]

Actually, when you get down to the quantum level, there is no smooth analog curve.  Electrons jump from one shell to the next in discrete steps, much like digital waveforms.  My quantum CD player has the best possible sound.  Period.

many, many magnitudes of difference between the size of an electron and the 'size' of a digital package of information. besides which, both the piece of vinyl AND the digital recording consist of electrons...

[danny_galaga]

oh, and vinyl definitely rules (",)

[richms]

I have heard some systems that people rave about being awesome and have another zero on the end of the price of mine (one was close to an extra 2 zeros) - and I was not impressed.

Firstly, the bass out of the tube amps was hollow, weak sounding, like the port tuning was all crap and there was no control over it (Think some rap lovers car). The volume it started to distort was quite low. Sure, it went a lot louder then that, but it was seriously unpleasant to listen to, if that's the "warmth" of a tube amp, then I will take my stone cold 500 watts of mosfet power any day.

That was all off a CD.

When we tried a turntable here at my place (was some esoteric thing with a giant pully on it and a stylus that cost more then my computer) - it couldn't go loud without getting really bad feedback at some low frequency that started making my woofers hit their limit. And that was at a volume well under what I normally listen to it at. Would have being lucky to be 75dB I would think. (That was on my mosfet amp into my nice inefficiant non ported speakers) Apparantly it was my fault for not having a subsonic filter on my preamp. Never needed to remove bass before except at extreme volumes that would make the cd player skip, but I dont do cd's anymore

I am firmly in the PC, good DAC and lots of power amp side of the fence for music. LPs have no random, no ability to leave it going for hours on end while doing other things, no downloads to play on it. I get a hell of a lot more enjoyment from music this way. Till the old gits next door start complaining.

[Ummon]

I have heard some systems that people rave about being awesome and have another zero on the end of the price of mine (one was close to an extra 2 zeros) - and I was not impressed.

I'm not saying your system blows, though it's very likely your hearing is screwy. What I mean is that most things today are what's called 'hyped', which means a boosting of the lows and highs and a cut in the mids. Most people are used to this and hearing something truly full range sounds, say, gamey to them. I was a victim of this, particularly as I listened to a lot of scooped-mids metal, until I realized it and my ear changed.

Not that there aren't great solid state systems out there, and not that digital isn't great. They offer different things, though.

[RayB]

Maybe it's been mentioned and I didn't notice, since I just skimmed the most recent posts, but people need to know that most digital format players don't just decode sound data in "steps" and leave it at that (well maybe ultra cheap junk does). There is something called interpolation where the decoder performs a calculation of the "line" between those sample "steps". The result is much closer to an analog "wave" than the stair-step analogy. And plus, any real advanced players do that interpolation using a technique similar to bezier curves rather than simple linear interpolation. The end result is a smoothly curving waveform just like an analog one, though probably not matching the source exactly--close enough though to not matter to the human ear.

[DaOld Man]

oh, and vinyl definitely rules (",)

I was hooked on digital until I saw this.
Im a vinyl man now..

[richms]

Yeah, that pics alright except from the neck up...

And its latex isnt it?

[Ummon]

Maybe it's been mentioned and I didn't notice, since I just skimmed the most recent posts, but people need to know that most digital format players don't just decode sound data in "steps" and leave it at that (well maybe ultra cheap junk does). There is something called interpolation where the decoder performs a calculation of the "line" between those sample "steps". The result is much closer to an analog "wave" than the stair-step analogy. And plus, any real advanced players do that interpolation using a technique similar to bezier curves rather than simple linear interpolation. The end result is a smoothly curving waveform just like an analog one, though probably not matching the source exactly--close enough though to not matter to the human ear.

Ah, I missed this. Good show.

[ark_ader]

So is vinyl expensive?

I want to put it on the sides of my cab.

[Singapura]

Firstly, the bass out of the tube amps was hollow, weak sounding, like the port tuning was all crap and there was no control over it (Think some rap lovers car). The volume it started to distort was quite low. Sure, it went a lot louder then that, but it was seriously unpleasant to listen to, if that's the "warmth" of a tube amp, then I will take my stone cold 500 watts of mosfet power any day.

Like almost anything, it's not the price that makes the quality. If you have a $50,000 high end amplifier and don't pay attention to how you set it up, it WILL sound like crap. Just like a pro football player will play crap if he's out of shape. On the other hand, even an expensive crap amplifier, say a BOSE system can sound okay with the right setup. I owned a very nice tube amp but sold it because I don't have time to listen to it properly and my living room has bad acoustics. It did sound heavenly in my previous house though. I stick with portable now because I'm on the road most of the time. If you think bass out of a tube amp sucks, you should try this one:



The Darkvoice will match any solid state amp in bass output (it's a headphone amp btw).

[Blanka]

I have to say that digital can sound better than vinyl. Not as romantic, but my SACD's clearly sound better. The warmth of the bass is every bit as good as the vinyl, but the channel separation, the dynamic range and the noise level are much better. With a good 5 speaker setup (not .1 per se) you really enter the live stage. I have DSD recordings from old tapes from Frank and Ella, that sound awesome, but some modern Philips Pentatone recordings are total amazing. Sadly the creators Sony and Philips do more work on branding LCD TV's and crappy light systems like Ambilight.
And on the amplifier side: ever heard a Sony DSD SACD amp or a Tripath T-class amp or ? If you know that, A and A-B class are ancient dinosaurs. The T-amp is a switching amp controlled analog, and it is really really good. Yet a 2x100 watt RMS thd <1% amp fits in a MacMini and is 85% energy efficient. Vinyl sure is romantic, but DSD and D and T-class amps  are there to stay.