Whitewater shop job w/pics

[Wade]

I decided to tear down and clean up this game to help it sell (selling this and a Diamondplate Whirlwind). Both appear to be sold, but if the buyer falls through I still wanted this game to be as nice as I could realistically make it without serious expense.  There are still a few missing/busted boulders and a couple of other things keeping it from being 100%, but it still turned out nicer than I thought it would.

There are 3 pages of pics, in approximate order of the progress.  I'll attach some highlight pics later (can't reach them from here).

http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/WhitewaterProgress

What was done:

Cabinet:
Completely washed and repainted coin door
Head stripped and repainted
Washed all boards and everything in head
New head decals
Head bolts repainted or polished
Cabinet vacuumed out
Legs (non original black) repainted
New leg levelers

Playfield:
Mine kickout touched up and mylared
Everything removed and washed except pop bumpers
All under-playfield assemblies removed and cleaned
All inserts cleaned with q-tips from below
All lamp boards removed and washed
Playfield cleaned and polished
All new star posts and clear posts
All metal posts polished and some replaced
New Bigfoot ramp and ramp decals
Bigfoot removed and all parts cleaned
Bigfoot got a bath
Upper playfield stripped and bottom sanded and sealed
Upper playfield wiring washed
All but 4 visible screws/nuts/washers polished
Slingshots cleaned
All new rubber
Polished apron
Cleaned coils and wrappers
New shooter rod, tip, springs, and sleeve
New insanity falls ramp decals
New green targets
Ramp protectors
All ramps hand cleaned, polished, and flame polished
Many screws replaced with new

Thanks,
Wade

[hatrick]

Wow, great job. That looks really nice. Some blue GI lights on the playfield would look pretty cool on that machine...kinda give it a "water" look.

[ace3093]

WOW!!

That looks amazing. I wish my Whitewater looked this clean. What a difference new clear ramps make. Mine are kind of dirty and faded. Your's are crystal clear.

Great Job.

How long did the job take?

[RichSorr]

great job! those ramps look incredible

[Wade]

Thanks guys!  All those ramps are original except for the Bigfoot ramp.  I hand polished them and then flame-polished them and they look better, but nowhere near as nice as brand new ones.

I'll finally try to get the attachments added.

Thanks,
Wade

[Wade]

Mostly "Before" pictures.

[Wade]

More pictures.

[Wade]

Even more.

[Wade]

More.

[Wade]

Make it stop!!!

[Wade]

More.

[Wade]

It's really the last one.

Wade

[ace3093]

Did you buy new ramps or did you clean the ones you had? If you cleaned them how did you do it?
Also did you choose to leave the bolders off of the jet bumbers or did you not have the bolders in the first place? I like the look with out it seems like the machine has more light.

[Wade]

Did you buy new ramps or did you clean the ones you had? If you cleaned them how did you do it?
Also did you choose to leave the bolders off of the jet bumbers or did you not have the bolders in the first place? I like the look with out it seems like the machine has more light.

It didn't have the boulders when I got it, and I never found a decent deal on replacements.  Busted ones usually go for $50+ each on ebay.  The buyer was fine with it (may or may not get replacements, I really don't know).  It bugged me at first because I was used to seeing the game with boulders, but after having the caps for a few weeks I guess I just got used to them.  Part of the reason I sold the game is because getting all the new parts to make it as nice as I really wanted would have cost a small fortune.  Basically, an extra $1000.

Wade

[ChadTower]

Nice... but the before pics look like the finished job of half the guys I know.     What was wrong with the ramps?  They looked far better than half the Whitewaters I've seen to start with.  No missing chunks or cracks or anything.

[Wade]

No, Whitewater bashing is not allowed.   I personally think it's one of the best late model pins ever made.  It's been on TreasureCove's survey Top 10 or Top 5 list as long as they've been doing it, and I agree 100% with that rating.

Chad, yeah it wasn't too bad to start out and I've seen a lot of beat-to-death Whitewaters, but it could have been better.  It had your basical operator shop job, and dirt was in every nook and cranny.  The bottom of the whirlpool was black, as were the light boards and the playfield edges around the hole.  Bigfoot was freakin nasty.  I think the techs who'd worked on the game over the years just used him as their grease rag to wipe their hands on.  I really like my games to be clean.

I spent probably 20 hours 2 years ago fixing some things and doing the head decals and cleaning the head and boards.  This round I spent 40 hours or more I'm sure.

I wasn't sure if I was going to sell it or keep it when I started shopping it, so I wanted to get it as nice as I could in case I kept it.  The ramps had a lot of normal ball trails (some of which I couldn't polish out), some deep scratches from prior work on the game, and the entrances were busted up on some of them (the metal protectors hide most of that).  One of them has several extra holes that aren't original.  Most of the screw holes were too large so they didn't hold the metal side pieces well, so I cut extra clear plastic from a bad ramp in a small rectangle, drilled a new hole the correct size and put the plastic under the original hole, then tightened down.  Worked great.

Compared to the reimport World Cup Soccer I sold a few years ago, this game was actually cleaner to start out, but the WCS cleaned up much better (those ramps came out like NEW) and had only one busted part.  On this (domestic) game, so many parts had been been busted, either by the ball or a tech breaking/overtightening it.  It also had a lot of electrical hacks, and the WCS had none (but needed new connectors in the head).  Overall this game was in far worse condition, but is far more desirable and thus more expensive.  Sometimes I really miss that WCS.

Wade

[ChadTower]

No, Whitewater bashing is not allowed.   I personally think it's one of the best late model pins ever made.  It's been on TreasureCove's survey Top 10 or Top 5 list as long as they've been doing it, and I agree 100% with that rating.

TC's list has always been at least as much about ROI than it has quality of a given game.  I like the game - I just don't see it being as pricey as it tends to be.  That's just personal preference, though, since I like the preDMD games a whole lot more.

[Wade]

Well, I agree that TC's list isn't the best list around, and the price has been climbing for that game for a while.  I probably should have held on to it longer .  But I really do think it's a super game.  I've long considered it my pinball grail game, and I assure you I didn't sell it due to disappointment in the fun department.

Wade

[Wade]

"The price is rising on whitewater" is one of the biggest myths perpetuated by RGP.

I was offered one in 2002 that was in decent shape and told "the price is going nowhere but UP!!! on this title."

Price? $1,500.  You can get decent ones for that on E-bay regularly.

Everyone says they love it, but they never own it long.  It's constantly changing hands.  See also Bram Stoker's Dracula and The Shadow.

I can't stand the theme, music, artwork, or playfield layout.  Other than that, it's alright.   

I disagree on all points, except for your personal lack of appreciation for the game, which you're entitled to.  The rest is all just speculation or personal perspective, no real fact.  Please start a fresh topic so we can discuss why we do or don't like certain games, and value trends.

Wade

[Wade]

That just supports my argument that the price is going up.  The vast majority of WH2O's on ebay are in poor condition and need hundreds of dollars in repairs, and yet the average is $1650.  Nicer ones typically sell for $2000+.  You can find many examples of this on RGP, too.  It's extremely
hard to find a nice WH2O these days for $1500, even with pin prices slumping in general.

How nice was that $1500 one you passed on?

It's hard to be sure about market trends, especially since price depends so much on condition.  It could be that WH2O prices are higher now due to the condition being nicer and the expensive parts it takes to make them nice.  Entirely possible.

Figure the price of repro parts.  Full set of ramps is $600+, boulders $300, plastics $100, decals $250.  And that doesn't even include all the misc parts that add up to hundreds if you're shopping one out.  So even if you buy a $1000 beater WH2O, you'd have $2500 into it to make it nice not even accounting for labor.  This supports the price point.  If a one is nice enough already that it is beautiful and needs absolutely nothing, then it will likely get $2000+ because just some of the parts are worth that much.

I don't agree with the "high turnover" thing because it seems everyone I know with one simply won't let it go.  I always considered it my single must-have pin.  But there's no reliable data either of us have to support our positions one way or the other.  Your assertion that 83 sales is related to high turnover of the game is purely an assumption.  It could just as easily mean that a lot of people like the game, or it's a hell of a game for its price range.

Regardless, turnover could mean anything, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good the game is.  Part of the reason I let mine go is because it was too valuable and parts were too expensive for my blood.  I needed to downscale my collection cost-wise, and raise some cash for other things.  I'd be willing to bet the new owner will keep it long term, and he has gone through a lot of pins!

Bottom line... my firm position is still that it's one of the best pins ever made.  Awesome flow and shots, great layout, family friendly, great 5-way combo, extremely challenging rules that keep even the best players coming back for more.  Just a super all-around game.  All that said, it's all taste, so don't anyone seek one out just based on my love for the game.

TTYL,
Wade

[Wade]

It's your number one keeper that you dumped all that worked into... and you're selling it. 

 

Again, very nice work.

 

I really had to, and I hated to.  I have no pins at all right now, if that's any consolation.  I didn't sell it while I still kept others, know what I mean?

Thanks for the compliments, it's appreciated.

Wade

[ChadTower]

Those prices are all outdated.  You can't apply pin prices from a year ago to the current market.  It has dropped like an anvil.  A guy here on the local collector's circuit was trying to sell a nice Whitewater and had to keep cutting price until it finally went at $1200.  That's not specific to this game - they're all decreasing like that.  A titles are dropping substantially, B-C games are barely selling, project B-C games aren't selling at all and guys are resorting to bulk offers.  People are freaking out about fuel costs and the projected colder than average winter.  Too many guys have their savings tied up in pins with the assumption that if they needed money they could just cash out a pin... and now that isn't happening.  It is going to get far worse for them before it gets better.

[Wade]

I live in BFE (basically 3+ hours from any large metro area) and in one week, I sold this and Whirlwind for $3200 to someone who drove 4 hours to get them.  So call it $1600 each.  And both games had advertised issues - Whirlwind had a weak flipper, intermittent drop target, and really needed a shop job.  The WH2O had a reset problem, several wiring hacks, a consistent ball hang that needed repaired, was missing the topper dome and two boulders, had broken boulders, some bad ramps, the wrong legs, and had some cabinet fading.

The buyer is very happy with the purchase and price, and he wasn't a "know nothing" retail buyer, he's been a collector for 5+ years.  Since they sold so quickly and I had many interested parties for the games individually, I think I could have sold them for more if I had been willing to break them up, and after cleaning up the WH2O.  But in the past I've had to wait MONTHS to sell games since there's no local market so I didn't want to hold out, as much as I wanted to get the cash and be done with it.

I guess pricing is just an opinion anyway, it's not as predictable as car prices or home prices for example.  So we could argue forever about it.  I agree with you and pinballjim though that game prices in general have been falling the last year or two.  But I also think WH2O has been increasing for the past 5+ years.  Just my opinion and perspective of course.

Wade

[Wade]

Too many guys have their savings tied up in pins with the assumption that if they needed money they could just cash out a pin... and now that isn't happening.  It is going to get far worse for them before it gets better.

I hope that's not true for many pin collectors at all.  Doing so would be just foolish.

Wade

[ChadTower]

I hope that's not true for many pin collectors at all.  Doing so would be just foolish.

I've heard the strategy straight out of the mouth of several collectors.  The rationale has been that you can keep your savings tied up in an account that is gaining below inflation or you can tie it up in pins that get more enjoyment than 2% interest is worth.  It is how many of the middle class guys have large collections.  Note that I'm not saying it's a good strategy.  I'm just saying there are definitely guys out there doing it and they are starting to dump games fast as winter approaches.  There are games here now that are being advertised at prices that would have gotten you called a lowballing a-hole for offering 12 months ago.

[shardian]

I've heard the strategy straight out of the mouth of several collectors.  The rationale has been that you can keep your savings tied up in an account that is gaining below inflation or you can tie it up in pins that get more enjoyment than 2% interest is worth.  It is how many of the middle class guys have large collections.  Note that I'm not saying it's a good strategy.  I'm just saying there are definitely guys out there doing it and they are starting to dump games fast as winter approaches.  There are games here now that are being advertised at prices that would have gotten you called a lowballing a-hole for offering 12 months ago.

The day I spend savings funds on a pin is the day I hand over all financial responsibilities to the wife. That is incredibly stupid. Now I can see the collectors who bulk buy, restore, and sell as an income or to offset pin costs, but to straight up invest your savings in pins? That is soooo asking for trouble.

[ChadTower]

Note that a lot of collectors are also single child men in their 40s or 50s that never got married.  The risk is lower.  Plus they're all ME ME ME.

[Wade]

I hope that's not true for many pin collectors at all.  Doing so would be just foolish.

I've heard the strategy straight out of the mouth of several collectors.  The rationale has been that you can keep your savings tied up in an account that is gaining below inflation or you can tie it up in pins that get more enjoyment than 2% interest is worth.  It is how many of the middle class guys have large collections.  Note that I'm not saying it's a good strategy.  I'm just saying there are definitely guys out there doing it and they are starting to dump games fast as winter approaches.  There are games here now that are being advertised at prices that would have gotten you called a lowballing a-hole for offering 12 months ago.

Well, that's just crazy.  A fool and his money are soon parted, right??

Wade

[Pongo]

Ok, I'm really late to this thread, but I just wanted to say how awesome things look.

I've got a Whitewater myself (I've had it for about 2 years now) and I still play it every chance I get. Definately one of the greatest pinball machines I've played. This was a birthday present for my wife and it cost a bit more than I was planning, but oh so worth it!

I consider mine to be in great shape and very clean, but looking at all your new ramps makes me drool! The only real issue with mine is that the whirlpool ramp has a small crack in it. (Just a visual thing, doesn't affect gameplay at all) I managed to get a new ramp, but have not done the install on it yet.

Awesome to see some others out there. I'd love to come across one "in the wild" some day and throw a new HS on it!