building an NES PC...only for NES emulation

[hulkster]

i did a search for NES PC on here, but didnt turn up any results relating to what i want to do....however i'm sure someone has already asked this question before.  i actually may have myself a few years ago, but ive forgotten  so here goes...

there are tons of people out there doing NES PC's...i googled....but most of those people want to use the NES PC for all kinds of extra crap.  i JUST want it to run NES emulation/roms.  so no complex video, or nintendo 64 cpu power requirements or anything like that, just simple nes emu.  with that in mind, i want to build this with as little cost as i can.  i already have most of the hardware, cept for the mini-itx board ill need to put in the NES. 

so first of all, i have a few questions.  i went to newegg and found this board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813185103 .  its $25 after mail in rebate, and its got the cpu already built into the board (800mhz).  i went to this site http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Nintendo-NES-PC/ and looked at everything this guy did...however he has a whole lot of other emu's that he's putting on there, so im hoping i can save some $$ by building a very low horsepower pc.  here's what ive got so far without having to spend money:

1.  NES w/ 2 controllers (hoping to use those...whether i mod or buy usb converted NES pads, i want to use the NES controllers)
2.  laptop hard drive
3.  laptop CD Rom drive
4.  extra case fans if necessary

what i think ill need:

1.  mini-itx mobo with cpu - $30
2.  IDE converter to plug drive into mobo - $10-15
3.  RAM - i need DDR 266 but i think the old laptop i have should have that, but if not - $20 or less
4.  external power brick - $??

so here are my questions:

1.  im assuming my 800mhz cpu/mobo is plenty for nes emulation right?
2.  OS - can i just use dos or will i run into driver issues with the controllers and such?
3.  i can probably find a tutorial on how to convert existing NES pads to usb, but ive never soldered anything in my life soooo....yeah....should i just buy some converted NES usb pads??
4.  any other suggestions before i embark on this venture??

any help would be greatly appreciated. 

[ChadTower]

DOS is touchy at best with USB drivers.  Best to use Linux if you want USB.

Why a CD drive?  If you're going to use USB you can save a lot of space by using a cheap USB thumb drive instead of bulky optical drive.  You can save even more space if you decide to boot from one or use a compact flash-IDE adapter.  Doesn't cost much to do either and for something as simple as an NES emulator you could easily back the flash drive up for when it eventually wears out.  Make another copy, pop it in, and you're good.

[Ginsu Victim]

800mhz is plenty for NES (SNES and Genesis, as well)

Linux or Windows. DOS is not recommended for USB devices.

There's tutorials online for converting pads. Also there are adapters
http://www.retrousb.com/index.php

I agree with Chad about the CF to IDE adapter. Forget a CD drive.

[hulkster]

thanks for the tips Chad.  

ive never used or installed linux so i was kind of shying away from that....but im always open to trying  

CD drive because...um....well yeah.  i dont know why, i guess because i saw all the other tutorials talking about it.  

about the hard drive...are you talking about booting to a usb flash drive?  i need the hard drive space for roms, screenshots, etc, and i dont have any flash drives big enough to hold all of that.  i know that space is somewhat of an issue, but if i can knock out the cd rom drive, then that gives me extra room.  

and explain more about the compact flash-ide adapter...you lost me there.

[Ginsu Victim]

Pick up a compact flash and one of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10310

[ChadTower]

about the hard drive...are you talking about booting to a usb flash drive?  i need the hard drive space for roms, screenshots, etc, and i dont have any flash drives big enough to hold all of that.  i know that space is somewhat of an issue, but if i can knock out the cd rom drive, then that gives me extra room. 

and explain more about the compact flash-ide adapter...you lost me there.

Thumb drives of 8gig are easy to get now.  If you can come up with more than 8gig of NES ROMs and screenshots send the new discoveries our way.   

The tutorials with CD drives are old.  That's why they have CD drives.

[hulkster]

about the hard drive...are you talking about booting to a usb flash drive?  i need the hard drive space for roms, screenshots, etc, and i dont have any flash drives big enough to hold all of that.  i know that space is somewhat of an issue, but if i can knock out the cd rom drive, then that gives me extra room. 

and explain more about the compact flash-ide adapter...you lost me there.

Thumb drives of 8gig are easy to get now.  If you can come up with more than 8gig of NES ROMs and screenshots send the new discoveries our way.  

The tutorials with CD drives are old.  That's why they have CD drives.

   oh...yeah i guess i just assumed that the roms (even though they are only 20k or something) plus screenshots would be lots of hd space.  sorry for the retarded moment   

so based on that....if i go to the CF route, how many gigs would be enough for OS, screens, FE, roms, etc etc??

[Ginsu Victim]

I have, so far as I know, the entire NES collection on one CD. You don't need much space at all.

[hulkster]

I have, so far as I know, the entire NES collection on one CD. You don't need much space at all.

so thats around 700mb or so (minus dupes and crappy roms i wont play).  so that leaves screens and OS, plus drivers if i need them.  so....2-4gb?

are there drawbacks to using usb flash drives vs. cf ?  as in...speed?  im not talking about slowdown on playing the games, just booting up and such.

[ChadTower]

so based on that....if i go to the CF route, how many gigs would be enough for OS, screens, FE, roms, etc etc??

If you buy a new one you'll have trouble finding one that isn't many times the capacity you need.

[hulkster]

well i can get a 1gb CF card... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211189 

[ChadTower]

Or you can get a 4gig card for $4 more... hell the 2gig cards are the same price as the one you posted. 

[ChadTower]

Because they aren't really available.  I've never actually seen one.  They made a splash whey they were supposedly released but I don't know anyone who was able to get one.

[ChadTower]

Have a schematic for using a real NES pad with that?  Or is that a miniUSB on the side?

[hulkster]

Or you can get a 4gig card for $4 more... hell the 2gig cards are the same price as the one you posted. 

okay, so i get that 4gb card, with the adapter...and i'm looking at $20 total for the hard drive space.

what about my performance question?  any downside to using CF?  im not expecting lightning fast bootups, but i dont want it taking forever either.

[ChadTower]

Or you can get a 4gig card for $4 more... hell the 2gig cards are the same price as the one you posted. 

okay, so i get that 4gb card, with the adapter...and i'm looking at $20 total for the hard drive space.

what about my performance question?  any downside to using CF?  im not expecting lightning fast bootups, but i dont want it taking forever either.

I don't know but I'm sure that info is out there.  If some people are using them for MAME cabs I can't see them being a problem for an NES emulator.

[Ginsu Victim]

If some people are using them for MAME cabs I can't see them being a problem for an NES emulator.

By your use of the words "an NES emulator", that leads me to believe you're in the group of people who call it N-E-S (en ee ess).

I've always called it the "Ness", and I'm not alone, but it seems from discussions elsewhere that I'm in the minority.

"Ness" just seems easier to me...

[ChadTower]

By your use of the words "an NES emulator", that leads me to believe you're in the group of people who call it N-E-S (en ee ess).

I've always called it the "Ness", and I'm not alone, but it seems from discussions elsewhere that I'm in the minority.

"Ness" just seems easier to me...

Or... proper written English generally dictates that "an" is used before acronyms that start with a soft consonant or a vowel. 

[Ginsu Victim]

Right, which is how I came to that conclusion

[ChadTower]

Right, which is how I came to that conclusion

So, since it is an acronym, that has no real bearing on how I would actually say it.    

Though you are right I would say N-E-S.  I work in corporate software where people have whole conversations mostly in acronyms.   

[Ginsu Victim]

I write how I speak, as I try to get my voice across through my typing. So I would write "a NES (ness)" because that's what I hear in my head. It's incorrect when written, but that's how my brain works.

I'm a lefty. We're just different...

[ChadTower]

I'm a lefty. We're just different...

Or not.  So am I.   

[Ginsu Victim]

I just KNEW you would be when I said that. 

[ChadTower]

I just KNEW you would be when I said that. 

Heh.  I bet there are a lot of lefties here.  It's that kind of place.

[Franco B]

Ok, so there is N-E-S, NEZ, or NESS from what I have heard over the years. The latter can only remind me of one thing.

[Ginsu Victim]

I just KNEW you would be when I said that. 

Heh.  I bet there are a lot of lefties here.  It's that kind of place.

What I thought, too. We're wired different, so we take things and wire them....different.

[hulkster]

okay then, so here's what i have so far (prices are rounded up):

1.  mobo - $30 after rebate
2.  4gb cf card - $15
3.  cf card to IDE adapter - $4
4.  vga to compositie video adapter - $5
5.  audio to composite audio adapter - $5???
6.  80 watt picoPSU - $30 (this is debatable...how else do i power my system?  can i rig up a laptop external power brick??)

[massive88]

Its an acronym for Nintendo Entertainment System, not a new, different word.

As long as you arent a person who says "L-O-L" or even worse "lawl" in real life though, carry on.   

[Ginsu Victim]

I say both "en ee ess" and "ness", but I suppose I started calling "ness" because of Nester and Howard.

[Ginsu Victim]

As long as you arent a person who says "L-O-L" or even worse "lawl" in real life though, carry on.  

No, definitely not one of those. Matter of fact, I never even use lol online.

[SithMaster]

okay then, so here's what i have so far (prices are rounded up):

1.  mobo - $30 after rebate
2.  4gb cf card - $15
3.  cf card to IDE adapter - $4
4.  vga to compositie video adapter - $5
5.  audio to composite audio adapter - $5???
6.  80 watt picoPSU - $30 (this is debatable...how else do i power my system?  can i rig up a laptop external power brick??)

I think you will need a desktop based power supply though I'm sure when the left handeds get around to it they will tell me how wrong I am.

Which vga to composite adapter are you looking at?  The problem I see is no support for Duck Hunt but I'll forgive you if there will be a picture filled post showing your work on this.

This reminds me of the Nomad link

edit- http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-kit

[gonzo90017]

If you wan't to save a little more money you can hook up your controllers to your pc using the DirectPad pro method along with using NTpad XP's drivers.

[hulkster]

okay then, so here's what i have so far (prices are rounded up):

1.  mobo - $30 after rebate
2.  4gb cf card - $15
3.  cf card to IDE adapter - $4
4.  vga to compositie video adapter - $5
5.  audio to composite audio adapter - $5???
6.  80 watt picoPSU - $30 (this is debatable...how else do i power my system?  can i rig up a laptop external power brick??)

I think you will need a desktop based power supply though I'm sure when the left handeds get around to it they will tell me how wrong I am.

Which vga to composite adapter are you looking at?  The problem I see is no support for Duck Hunt but I'll forgive you if there will be a picture filled post showing your work on this.

This reminds me of the Nomad link

edit- http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-kit

thanks sithmaster....ive done a little more research and ive seen one build where a guy uses a 55watt psu...but its not one of the picoPSU's or anything.  its more like your standard ATX psu but more of a rectangle shape.  i might be able to find a slim psu from an old pc at work.  i saw those picoPSU's and the kit and everything, but they are just a little too expensive.  i know $50 isnt all that much, but every time i start talking about "another project" my wife gives me the evil eye followed by "you dont NEED it".    

anyway, i think ill just try to compare the price difference between the picoPSU and a standard PSU.

[hypernova]

This is a Ness.

[Blanka]

May I ask the question why?
Why put a system to emulate a system inside a system that does 30$ second hand that already does exactly that en does that extremely well?
Or do you want this:
http://hangarcatblues.blogspot.com/2007/06/nes-cartridge-sd-card-8-bit-heaven.html
So you can play zillions of unbought stuff?

[Kangum]

i have a nes to usb adapter and it works really well. I use the nes max with it  . works decent although i think there is like 10 year old cheetos and ruffle chips stuck in it or something. 

at least if you go the usb adapter route instead of build yourself you can swich from nes , nes max , nes advantage and back again. wich is pretty cool.

[hulkster]

May I ask the question why?
Why put a system to emulate a system inside a system that does 30$ second hand that already does exactly that en does that extremely well?
Or do you want this:
http://hangarcatblues.blogspot.com/2007/06/nes-cartridge-sd-card-8-bit-heaven.html
So you can play zillions of unbought stuff?

the same reason everyone in this forum builds an arcade machine to play zillions of unbought stuff when they can just play it on their pc with a keyboard....because they want to relive the experience as close to what they remember as a kid.  playing zelda with a 8 way joystick and push buttons just doesnt capture the old school feeling like actually playing on a tv with NES controllers. 

for the record....i cant believe you asked that question in this forum of all places.   

i have a nes to usb adapter and it works really well. I use the nes max with it  . works decent although i think there is like 10 year old cheetos and ruffle chips stuck in it or something. 

at least if you go the usb adapter route instead of build yourself you can swich from nes , nes max , nes advantage and back again. wich is pretty cool.

so instead of doing the whole parellel cable hack that ive seen....just pony up and buy the usb adapters?

[Mauzy]

Are you going to add SNES support?


Before the argument starts, Ive always said "sness" or "super En EE Ess". None of this "Ess En EE ESS" crap...

[nullb0y]

i had a parrallel hack at one point
It worked fine for older game controlers
No reason not to do it that way
Soldering is fun ^_^

[hulkster]

i had a parrallel hack at one point
It worked fine for older game controlers
No reason not to do it that way
Soldering is fun ^_^

well speaking of that, ive been trying to figure out how i want to interface the controllers.  i could get one of those NES to usb adapter things...which would mean id have to not use the NES controller ports on the NES itself.  thats the more expensive option actually, cuz ill have to buy adapters which are $22 a pop.  id rather spend the money on the motherboard and other essential components since my budget is very limited. 

the parallel hack ive seen and i guess i could do that.  ive seen it done two ways though.  one way is to actually make the end of the NES controller a parallel end.  the other way that ive seen is to wire the actual front ports on the NES to the parallel port on the mobo.  the only drawback to that is that ill have a parallel cable sorta sticking out the back of the NES.  that would however be the cheap option because i already have the parallel cable and wires and such.  ive never soldered though 

finally on a different note, back to the psu ordeal.  im probably going to have to spend like $50 on the picoPSU kit (comes with power brick).  im open to other options though that dont cost as much.

[Ginsu Victim]

Are you going to add SNES support?


Before the argument starts, Ive always said "sness" or "super En EE Ess". None of this "Ess En EE ESS" crap...

I obviously say "sness" as well.

[gonzo90017]

If you use controller extensions you can use whatever control you want.

[nullb0y]

I would go with the parallel option
But buy the small plugs from rat shack
it wont stick out very far at all

[NiN^_^NiN]

I previously did this with a 600mhz mini itx and it worked fine i dont remember if i used dos or windows then dos as im not sure if the soundcard drivers are available for dos

I just used the parallel port to use 2 nes pads and use Gamelaunch to run the games in dos it worked great.

You can always gut the 2 nes controllers and wire them to serial if you wanted.

But just get an old nes use a dremel to cut out all of the posts inside the case that the screws use and throw the mini itx in there with a CF card and your basically done

[hulkster]

well i've rethought this....at least for now....

i just purchased 2 NES usb controllers.  not the adapter thing, but two new NES pads with usb ends.  i have an old laptop that still works and i think what im going to do is put NES emu and roms on it and just plug up my controllers to that and test with that for a while and see how i like it.  if i end up wanting to play SNES games in the long run, i'll probably end up opting for a larger hard drive so i can put snes roms on it as well.  and the other good thing is that by keeping the pads usb, i can always hook them up to my mame cab and play making it a little more universal.

[SithMaster]

May I ask the question why?
Why put a system to emulate a system inside a system that does 30$ second hand that already does exactly that en does that extremely well?
Or do you want this:
http://hangarcatblues.blogspot.com/2007/06/nes-cartridge-sd-card-8-bit-heaven.html
So you can play zillions of unbought stuff?

That would a better option for me but at that price I can just buy the games I want.

As for the PSU well yeah when I found that pico one I thought it was expensive too but a cheaper one might be found on ebay.  Otherwise I don't see why one can't be found that was designed for a mini motherboard.

Would it be possible to just use the laptop for this just without the screen?

[hulkster]

May I ask the question why?
Why put a system to emulate a system inside a system that does 30$ second hand that already does exactly that en does that extremely well?
Or do you want this:
http://hangarcatblues.blogspot.com/2007/06/nes-cartridge-sd-card-8-bit-heaven.html
So you can play zillions of unbought stuff?

That would a better option for me but at that price I can just buy the games I want.

As for the PSU well yeah when I found that pico one I thought it was expensive too but a cheaper one might be found on ebay.  Otherwise I don't see why one can't be found that was designed for a mini motherboard.

Would it be possible to just use the laptop for this just without the screen?

well i dont think the mobo will fit in the NES case.  that's the whole point of the mini-itx board i guess.  i mean, i dont know for sure, but im assuming thats why everyone buys a new mini mobo for it.  i think for the time being though, ill just get the laptop loaded with all the stuff i want...put it in my entertainment center and maybe put a usb hub in front of it or something.  it wont look as cool as a NES, but it will accomplish the same thing, but without all the money spent.