Thai Teen Nabbed in 'Grand Theft Auto' Copycat Killing

[Dartful Dodger]

Thai Teen Nabbed in 'Grand Theft Auto' Copycat Killing

Police in Bangkok said that the youth "had wanted to find out if it was as easy in real life to rob a taxi as it was in the game."

I guess this means it's not.

[ark_ader]

It could have been far worse.

Driving on the sidewalk or shooting down police helicopters, is all I do in GTA SA.   

[ChadTower]

"We are urging all video-game arcades to pull the game from service," said a spokesman for New Era Interactive

GTA in the arcades?

[shardian]

As in all of these cases, the game is irrelevant and should not be blamed. The kid is a ---smurfing--- psycho. Period.

[Malenko]

was arrested late on Saturday after he was found trying to steer a cab backwards out of a Bangkok street with the severely wounded driver in the back seat

I call BS, you cant kill the taxi driver in the cab with a knife, only a gunshot can do that in the game. If you kill them outside of the cab you cant get the body back in. 



Why do people try to blame video games when its the people doing the crime that are at fault.

[Malenko]

As in all of these cases, the game is irrelevant and should not be blamed. The kid is a ---smurfing--- psycho. Period.

Im still waiting for the day some kid does open heart surgery in the street and saves someones life cause he played Trauma Center on DS

[RayB]

Heh.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyDNwjWHqbk[/youtube]

[hypernova]

As in all of these cases, the game is irrelevant and should not be blamed.

It's totally the knife's fault.  Why can't anyone see that?

As insane as those countries are, I'm surprised they don't take knives off the shelves.

[SavannahLion]

"We are urging all video-game arcades to pull the game from service," said a spokesman for New Era Interactive

GTA in the arcades?

It's probably what they call whatever a PC gaming center is there. You'll note in the main article that he had an allowance of 100 baht which, apparently, isn't enough to play the game. Why his mother gave him 500 baht one day to buy two knives is beyond me.

That cheese dick, Jack Thompson, is guaranteed to be all over this. I'll bank he'll bring this up in some tirade in the near future.

[Dartful Dodger]

After he buys his way out of jail he should spend a few hours practicing driving in reverse before retrying that mission.

[ChadTower]

A 19 year old with an allowance and whose parents still control what he plays obviously isn't right.  The media will nicely gloss over that fact.

[RayB]

That cheese dick, Jack Thompson, is guaranteed to be all over this. I'll bank he'll bring this up in some tirade in the near future.

Kind of hard for him to do anything other than harrassment, now that he's been disbarred. And I presume CNN and other large media are smart enough not to let him speak on the issue due to that little fact.

[miles2912]

Classic deflection.  Blame someone/something else to defer attention to the fact that you are an idiot.  What do you bet that some kind of drug was involved.

[RayB]

I will bet 6 baht !

[koolmoecraig]

Of course the kid was crazy but don't try and tell me that these kinds of games have no effect on children.  It's not a perfect world and not everyone is created or raised equally(parents obviously deserve some of the blame but only to a certain extent). Games like this can have a real effect on kids.

A 30 second commercial has been proven over and over again as effective in influencing adults and childrens behavior.  It's laughable to think that an undeveloped/under-developed child wouldn't be influenced at all after playing these games for however many hours they take to complete.

[Malenko]

Of course the kid was crazy but don't try and tell me that these kinds of games have no effect on children.  It's not a perfect world and not everyone is created or raised equally(parents obviously deserve some of the blame but only to a certain extent). Games like this can have a real effect on kids.

A 30 second commercial has been proven over and over again as effective in influencing adults and childrens behavior.  It's laughable to think that an undeveloped/under-developed child wouldn't be influenced at all after playing these games for however many hours they take to complete.

but that is what is debatable. I played Super Mario Bros as a kid, I didnt go around jumping on turtles, seeing how high I could jump on a flag pole, or grab flowers expecting to shoot fireballs. Even when I was young I could tell the difference between real and fake, what I can do and cant do, and most importantly what I should and shouldnt do.

I will give you the fact games arent the same as when I was a kid but I was only like 14 when Mortal Kombat came out and while I was certainly awestruck at how cool and realistic the game looked I never once thought I could shoot ice out of my hands, teleport, or rip someones head off. I did think it would be cool to drop into a split and punch someone in the balls, but I never tried it.

The one major reason I dont believe the hype about video games being the influence that they are claimed to be is the fact its so one sided. All you hear about is idiot kids doing something they shouldnt then blaming a game the ESRB says they shouldnt be playing in the first place. As I said before, once a kid grows up to become a lawyer because of Pheonix Wright, or a surgeon because of trauma ceneter,etc,etc then I'll start to believe

[ChadTower]

It's laughable to think that an undeveloped/under-developed child wouldn't be influenced at all after playing these games for however many hours they take to complete.

If it weren't a game, it would be a movie, a TV show, a book, another kid, a billboard, a rock... something would be influencing that kid.  You can't ban everything just because there are a few people with mental problems.

[AtomSmasher]

I agree to an extent that little kids shouldn't be playing M and AO rated games for the same reasons I don't think an 8 year old should be watching an R or NC-17 rated movie.  Parents need to enforce the video game ratings as strictly as they do the movie ratings.

On a similar note, according to the FBI, the juvenile violent crime rate is at a 30-year low, so it's not like games like GTA have caused an epidemic of violence among the youth.

[Dartful Dodger]

The military and police use images of people for target shooting.

A round target is just as good for practicing your aim, but they use images of people to numb the shooters senses to shooting people.

I've said this a dozen times already, I went to school to be a game programmer I wanted to write the next best fighting game.  In college I was a news report on how a couple of 5 year old boys kicked a 5 year old girl unconscious in the snow and left her to die.

The boys were play power rangers, it happened in some overly sensitive country and they immediately pulled Power Rangers.  At first I thought that was nonsense, but then started thinking about it and realized that these 5 year olds were just imitating a kids show.

After that I changed my dream.  I love to play these games and they are protected by the first amendment, but I didn't want to be the one who created a game that indirectly caused a cabbie to lose his life.

[RayB]

Yeah, as a kid I had a friend who always wanted to wrestle, thanks to him watching WWF (pre name change). So what? He also watched hockey and there's fighting in that. Should we ban hockey and wrestling? OR should parents be required to take parenting classes and freakin BE PARENTS ??

[AtomSmasher]

The boys were play power rangers, it happened in some overly sensitive country and they immediately pulled Power Rangers.  At first I thought that was nonsense, but then started thinking about it and realized that these 5 year olds were just imitating a kids show.

If power rangers caused this to happen, then how come incidents like this didn't spring up everywhere power rangers was popular?

Kids have been playing games like cops and robbers or cowboys and indians for hundreds of years (and I'm sure variations of those games for thousands of years) and occasionally the kids get out of hand and seriously injure someone while they're playing.  The problem didn't suddenly start occuring with the advent of violent tv shows or video games.

[koolmoecraig]

I'm not saying we should ban anything.  I'm just saying you cannot discount the influence these games have.  Not all people are wired the same mentally.

Why have any limits on games at all? 

Why not have a game where you are a pedophile trying to rape children?  How about games that reenact the the Holocaust where you try to kill as many Jews as possible by coming up with new, more efficient ways to kill them? How about a game where you play as your favorite serial killer?  Maybe a 9/11 flight simulator game?

Where do you draw the line on what is a "reasonable" level of violence? Do you not draw any line and just let the free market determine EVERYTHING?

I'm sure I sound like an old man but I don't think as adults that we can fully understand what these games are doing to kids.  We grew up in a time where there where more innocent games were the norm and then they slowly got more and more violent(and obviously more realistic).  These kids know the most violent games from the time they first pick up a controller.

These aren't just quick, cartoonish violent games like the Mortal Kombat series.  These are basically full immersion crime and murder "simulators".  They aren't cartoonish in their portrayal of violence.  They strive to be as realistic as possible.

Video games are different than watching sports, tv shows and movies in that you are actually participating. You are making the decisions to kills and whatnot. Not just observing which even still can be influencing enough.

Obviously most kids are never going to become violent in real life due to video games but as I said, not all people in this world are wired the same mentally and not all kids have parents who watch over them closely enough, whether it be a single parent or a lazy parent.

You just cannot say that it has ZERO effect.

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm not saying we should ban anything.  I'm just saying you cannot discount the influence these games have.  Not all people are wired the same mentally.

That's all I'm saying too.  I like to play these games, but I understand that these games have a negative impact on people and I didn't want to be the cause of that.

Maybe I'm doing just as much harm by supporting these games, but that's a line I don't currently plan on drawing.

[AtomSmasher]

You just cannot say that it has ZERO effect.

Well considering that last year the violent crimes among juveniles was the lowest it's been in 30 years, I would say it doesn't have a very significant effect.

I remember reading about research that had just concluded something like a 5 or 10 year study on children and video games, and it found that kids who didn't play games were far more likely to be anti-social, along with several other results which contradict the video game/violence corrilation (it was the first ever long term study on children and video games, and was done by an independent group).  I'll try some google-foo and see if I can find a link with the actual details of the study.

[shardian]

Video games do not influence people who are 'wired wrong'. They are already wired wrong - the game didn't do anything by your own arguement. Anything can influence them to do what they do. It just so happened to be a video game this time. It could have been a book, a movie, a tv show, a commercial, something they saw on the news, something someone described to them, etc.

Speaking of books, there is some sick ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- in some books readily available and innocent looking on the shelf. I guess no one cares what is in books though, because dumb ass 'wired wrong' people don't read them.

[AtomSmasher]

I found the research that I heard about, although it wasn't as long term as I remembered it being, but contrary to other research, they studied real children and families in real situations.

It was done at the Harvard Medical School and funding by the Dept. of Justice.  One interesting thing they found was that boys who don't play video games are much more likely to get into trouble.

They wrote a book with their findings called Grand Theft Childhood
http://www.grandtheftchildhood.com/GTC/Home.html

They also recently did an interview on G4, which I know the channel is pretty biased on the topic, but it's worth a watch since the researchers do most of the talking: http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/videos/21264/Face_Time_Lawrence_Kutner_and_Cheryl_Olson.html

[Ed_McCarron]

Why not have a game where you are a pedophile trying to rape children?  How about games that reenact the the Holocaust where you try to kill as many Jews as possible by coming up with new, more efficient ways to kill them? How about a game where you play as your favorite serial killer?  Maybe a 9/11 flight simulator game?

Because they probably wouldn't sell well?

[koolmoecraig]

Why not have a game where you are a pedophile trying to rape children?  How about games that reenact the the Holocaust where you try to kill as many Jews as possible by coming up with new, more efficient ways to kill them? How about a game where you play as your favorite serial killer?  Maybe a 9/11 flight simulator game?

Because they probably wouldn't sell well?

Here.  Let me help you out with your selective quoting.  Your forgot my next two sentences:

"Where do you draw the line on what is a "reasonable" level of violence? Do you not draw any line and just let the free market determine EVERYTHING?"

[Ed_McCarron]

Woops, unintentional.  I missed that part in my quick reading...

[Malenko]

Why not have a game where you are a pedophile trying to rape children?  How about games that reenact the the Holocaust where you try to kill as many Jews as possible by coming up with new, more efficient ways to kill them? How about a game where you play as your favorite serial killer?  Maybe a 9/11 flight simulator game?

Because they probably wouldn't sell well?

I was going to reply with about the exact same thing. There is virtually no demand for such games so there would be no potential profit.  And for the record I used MS FLight sim to crash into the twin towers years before al queda (spelling?) did

No matter how you look at it the teen is trying to weasel his way out of taking responsibility for his actions. What video game did hitler play that inspired him to kill the jews? Was it the same one Pol Pot played?

Im not saying theres no influence, but if a video game can make you want to kill then you werent raised right, and that is not the games fault.

This is getting a little too PnR for me so I dont think Im gonna reply anymore.

[Ummon]

There was a certain remove from real violence old games had. It was because they couldn't, and didn't really seek to, emulate reality. Most games now are essentially surrogate realities too close to our own. Of course there's going to be cross-over, and there has been.

[saint]

I think one point that's missing is the piling on effect. Growing up I had a variety of balancing influences on me. It's a far different picture for kids today, and they get hit with a lot more violence from an early age than we ever did.

• Yeah, road runner and bugs bunny had violence, but I only got to see them on Saturday mornings if I got up on time. I spent more time playing baseball or tag or whatever with the neighborhood kids than I did watching TV. You can watch cartoons 24/7 now and there's a hell of a lot of violence in many of them.
• My first video games were Donkey Kong and Kangaroo -- not Grand Theft Auto and Crazy Taxi. I scored points by jumping barrels or punching monkeys - not running over people and killing them.
• There is a lot more violence celebrating music now than there was back in the 60's - 80's or so. "I shot the sherrif" is a lot more benign than "Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha" or "---stingray---, you think I won't choke no whore til the vocal cords don't work in her throat no more?!... Texas Chainsaw, left his brains all danglin from his neck, while his head barely hangs on Blood, guts, guns, cuts Knives, lives, wives, nuns, sluts"

Video games are violent, tv and movies are violent, online videos are posted of teens beating the crap out of someone, music is violent, etc, and all this is advertized to make the kids want it. Yeah, there's good stuff out there too, but the sheer volume of violent stuff is staggering. To top it off, the violence is celebrated and portrayed as cool -- not portrayed as something to shun or avoid.

Today's kids are inundated. Anyone who thinks this doesn't have an influence on how kids think is fooling themselves. Unless you home school and keep your kids pretty strictly controlled, parents today have a hell of a lot harder time raising their kids than my parents generation did.

I don't allow most violent music or video games in my house, I control television access, monitor their Internet usage, etc, but I'm not naive. I know when they're at school or a friend's house they're being exposed to stuff I don't want them exposed to.

You can't show breasts on TV, but you can show someone getting capped. We've got some screwed up priorities in this country, and it has an effect on our youth.

[AtomSmasher]

We've got some screwed up priorities in this country, and it has an effect on our youth.

Although not the effect most people think since the studies show that kids who play video games are less prone to violence and the violent crime rate among youth has been dropping ever since video games have become more realistic.

[AtomSmasher]

I was just reading through some of the info on the site I linked to earlier and theres a lot of interesting stuff there.  Heres a few bits I thought were interesting.

MYTH: The growth in violent video game sales is linked to the growth in youth violence — especially school violence — throughout the country.

FACT: Video game popularity and real-world youth violence have been moving in opposite directions. Violent juvenile crime in the United States reached a peak in 1993 and has been declining ever since. School violence has also gone down. Between 1994 and 2001, arrests for murder, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assaults fell 44 percent, resulting in the lowest juvenile arrest rate for violent crimes since 1983. Murder arrests, which reached a high of 3,800 in 1993, plummeted to 1400 by 2001.

I'll just add that the crime rates released by the FBI for 2007 show that the rates are still dropping.

The more M-rated titles on a child’s list of five games he or she “played a lot in the past six months,” the more likely the child was to be involved in these problem behaviors at least once during the past year.  Heavy game play (every day, or more than 15  hours per week) was also linked to increased risk. Even so, most kids who played M-rated games or who played more than 15 hours per week did not have significant problems or get into trouble. The authors emphasize that a one-time survey cannot prove cause-and-effect.

“We can’t say whether games like Grand Theft Auto encourage aggression, whether aggressive kids like GTA, or if other factors affect both of these,” notes Olson. “But parents should definitely keep a closer eye on children who play mostly violent games, or play for many hours per week.” She also recommends limiting violent game use by children with aggressive temperaments, developmental delays or emotional problems, since they may react differently.

MYTH:School shooters fit a profile that includes a fascination with violent media, especially violent video games.

FACT: The U. S. Secret Service intensely studied each of the 37 non-gang and non-drug-related school shootings and stabbings that were considered “targeted attacks” that took place nationally from 1974 through 2000. (Note how few premeditated school shootings there actually were during that 27-year time period, compared with the public perception of those shootings as relatively common events!) The incidents studied included the most notorious school shootings, such as Columbine, Santee and Paducah, in which the young perpetrators had been linked in the press to violent video games. The Secret Service found that that there was no accurate profile. Only 1 in 8 school shooters showed any interest in violent video games; only 1 in 4 liked violent movies.

Boys who rarely or never played video or computer games were more likely to get into fights or have problems at school. For some boys, not playing may be a marker of social problems. (This does not mean that not playing video games caused their problems!)

I highly recommend anyone who has concerns on one side or the other of this debate read that site as their findings were very interesting.

[Ed_McCarron]

I don't allow most violent music or video games in my house, I control television access, monitor their Internet usage, etc, but I'm not naive. I know when they're at school or a friend's house they're being exposed to stuff I don't want them exposed to.

"Thats it, kids.  Turn that computer off.  No more Oregon Trail for you - you keep giving the natives dysentery!"

[Ummon]

"Thats it, kids.  Turn that computer off.  No more Oregon Trail for you - you keep giving the natives dysentery!"

Heh.

Atomsmasher, granted, there is more reporting of sensational things, things that have happened in dense urban centers for a long time that didn't get on national news, etc before the last decade or two. However, there are things that didn't happen before. School shootings is one of them.

The other thing is the very fact that people enjoy producing media with violence, let alone excessive violence in them, I think is an indication of it's personal security. Sure, there are some who might enjoy or/and use such things to get relief from their lives so that they don't actually go out and do such things. That isn't healthy either. In light of these, one doesn't even have to question the sources of these various studies into crime.

[AtomSmasher]

However, there are things that didn't happen before. School shootings is one of them.

Huh?  School shootings (and school killings in general) have been occuring long before violent video games existed.

[RayB]

Look, bottom line, "kids today" shouldn't be playing GTA, since it's just not appropriate. That's a parent's responsibility. But if the kids sneaks in a few rounds at a friend's house, it's still not going to turn them into murderers. They may act out in imitation. I have no doubt about that. But it's a big leap between imitating (just as I too played "cops n robbers" as a kid, complete with toy cap-guns), and inflicting pain on another.

What DOES promote and cause child violence is anger, hatred and ignorance. A child who is angry will lash out. A child who hates, will lash out. And without proper guidance from adults, the boundaries of right and wrong aren't so clear. Empathy of another is taught. You teach a kid to not squeeze the kitty like that, and you teach them why. You teach kids to "imagine themselves in other's shoes". Without that teaching, they just won't care. Where things break down and cross the line is when kids are so angry and/or brought up to just not care about another's pain and suffering. They may cross the line. They may even do so while imitating something they saw, but the movie, or game is not the CAUSE.  Talk about "desensitizing to violence" all you want, it's not the motive for inflicting pain on another.

Raise a kid in an environment where he feels worthless, like he has nothing to lose, and a lot of bad things can happen.