So, my MAME cabinet's Betson monitor blew up (Yet another monitor advice thread)

[mewyn]

Well, I've had the Betson 27" multisync for a about two years now and I was working on resetting up all my MAME favorite games again, when I got to Nemesis, it flaked out.  I power cycled it and an arc formed from the anode to I don't know where (seeing an arc, I was more concerned with getting away than anything).

My dad (an EE) and I will be looking at it this weekend, but the prospects are bleak for it.

Anyway, I'm more concerned right now with replacing it, as I've been horribly disappointed with the Betson.  First off, on the top of the tube the first 5 scanlines kinda swooped in and were curved.  Tried having the boards serviced, but that didn't help.  Problem two was the squishy sides.  UGH!  Three, when I started using it after a year in storage, it developed some magnetic spots on the grille and an alignment problem.

So, yah, if it's not a quick fix to get it back up and running, I'm done with the Betson (anyone in the Chicago area want to take it for spare parts? ), and I'm wondering if anyone has had problems with the WG D9400, OR alternatively if anyone knows where I can get a Wei-Ya/Billabs monitor from, with decent shipping in the US?

[MonMotha]

Well, I've had the Betson 27" multisync for a about two years now and I was working on resetting up all my MAME favorite games again, when I got to Nemesis, it flaked out.  I power cycled it and an arc formed from the anode to I don't know where (seeing an arc, I was more concerned with getting away than anything).

This sort of arcing is often just moisture near the anode cap.  Let it dry out and try again.  Define "flaked out".

Anyway, I'm more concerned right now with replacing it, as I've been horribly disappointed with the Betson.  First off, on the top of the tube the first 5 scanlines kinda swooped in and were curved.  Tried having the boards serviced, but that didn't help.  Problem two was the squishy sides.  UGH!  Three, when I started using it after a year in storage, it developed some magnetic spots on the grille and an alignment problem.

The first few lines squished is an annoying issue that fortunately can be resolved by using separate rather than composite sync if you are not already doing so.  If you are already using separate sync, then I don't know what to tell you.

For the magnetic spots, did you attempt the use of a degaussing coil (not just the built-in one)?  This can happen with any monitor.  Minor convergence issues can also accompany these magnetic spots and are sometimes fixed just by degaussing.  It is also possible that the position/orientation you had your monitor in was just not good.

The only issues I've heard of that can cause permanent failures with causes similar to what you indicate are failures of the mode switching stuff.  This tends to happen if you switch modes frequently and rapidly.  These monitors are not really designed for that.  However, what you describe does not sound like a permanent failure or certainly not something that can't be fixed.

These monitors aren't actually made by Betson, but Korean manufacturer Kortek.  Quality seems to vary widely and Betson clearly doesn't perform any further QA on them.  Big multisync monitors are complicated so there are always some quirks, but it sounds like you may have gotten a bit unlucky.  I've not had much issue with mine, but I don't use it for MAME, so I'm not constantly switching modes on it: though I do swap JAMMA boards frequently, including standard and medium res swaps, it's not like going back and forth between a frontend at SVGA and a game at CGA constantly like many MAME users do.

All that said, if you still want to dispose of it, I'll be happy to have somebody show up and pick it up for me.  I'm a reasonable drive away in Fort Wayne, IN, but I know someone in Chicagoland who would probaly be willing to hold on to it for me.  I need a 27" multisync for a cabinet I'm looking at.

Regarding replacements, the D9400 has mixed reviews.  WG has had serious problems with build quality (often worse than the worst of Kortek) sinc the late 90s, but some say they have improved since then.  The Wei-Ya/Billabs seem to work well, but they have a smaller dot-pitch which makes low res games look less "authentic" and some have reported them blowing up shortly after arrival (service was good, though).

[mewyn]

This sort of arcing is often just moisture near the anode cap.  Let it dry out and try again.  Define "flaked out".

Well, when switching resolutions (into Nemesis,  I'm unsure which resolution MAME chose) it made a very odd, almost grinding noise and then the tube powered off.  I restored the previous resolution (800x600) thinking it just really hated that resolution for some reason, and when I powered it up it made the same noise and then arced.  There was no visible moisture around this anywhere.

The first few lines squished is an annoying issue that fortunately can be resolved by using separate rather than composite sync if you are not already doing so.  If you are already using separate sync, then I don't know what to tell you.

I was using a separate V and H sync on this, unless the monitor takes the separate syncs and combines them.  I've heard many of these monitors have squished sides, so I think it's a chronic problem for them. 

For the magnetic spots, did you attempt the use of a degaussing coil (not just the built-in one)?  This can happen with any monitor.  Minor convergence issues can also accompany these magnetic spots and are sometimes fixed just by degaussing.  It is also possible that the position/orientation you had your monitor in was just not good.

Using a degaussing coil was going to happen, and I figured that would work.  In fact, I was going to order one from Happ, but... well...

The only issues I've heard of that can cause permanent failures with causes similar to what you indicate are failures of the mode switching stuff.  This tends to happen if you switch modes frequently and rapidly.  These monitors are not really designed for that.  However, what you describe does not sound like a permanent failure or certainly not something that can't be fixed.

Hmmm... I shall keep that in mind.  I am going to take a look at it when my dad gets back, pull out the boards, see if we can find the problem quickly.

These monitors aren't actually made by Betson, but Korean manufacturer Kortek.  Quality seems to vary widely and Betson clearly doesn't perform any further QA on them.  Big multisync monitors are complicated so there are always some quirks, but it sounds like you may have gotten a bit unlucky.  I've not had much issue with mine, but I don't use it for MAME, so I'm not constantly switching modes on it: though I do swap JAMMA boards frequently, including standard and medium res swaps, it's not like going back and forth between a frontend at SVGA and a game at CGA constantly like many MAME users do.

All that said, if you still want to dispose of it, I'll be happy to have somebody show up and pick it up for me.  I'm a reasonable drive away in Fort Wayne, IN, but I know someone in Chicagoland who would probaly be willing to hold on to it for me.  I need a 27" multisync for a cabinet I'm looking at.

Regarding replacements, the D9400 has mixed reviews.  WG has had serious problems with build quality (often worse than the worst of Kortek) sinc the late 90s, but some say they have improved since then.  The Wei-Ya/Billabs seem to work well, but they have a smaller dot-pitch which makes low res games look less "authentic" and some have reported them blowing up shortly after arrival (service was good, though).

Ick, I don't like some Wei-Yas have blown up after arrival.  Part of my leaning towards the WG is I'm within driving distance to the WG service facility, so if it were to die on me, I can get it fixed.

But anyway, this weekend I'm going to be looking at it, seeing if I can get it up and running again.  I'm likely to get rid of it and go with one of the other two, if it runs I'll probably sell it fairly cheap, but if I can't it's free to a good home.

[MonMotha]

This sort of arcing is often just moisture near the anode cap.  Let it dry out and try again.  Define "flaked out".

Well, when switching resolutions (into Nemesis,  I'm unsure which resolution MAME chose) it made a very odd, almost grinding noise and then the tube powered off.  I restored the previous resolution (800x600) thinking it just really hated that resolution for some reason, and when I powered it up it made the same noise and then arced.  There was no visible moisture around this anywhere.

The moisture won't be visible necessarily.  However, it sounds like the classic "mode switch" failure.  I don't have the manual for the monitor handy to troubleshoot it any further, unfortunately.  I can look later.  Ken, qrz, and grantspain are far more experienced with monitor repair than I am, so they may have other ideas, certainly.

Can you further describe what happened?  Were there any video oddities (visual) during this "grinding" noise?

The first few lines squished is an annoying issue that fortunately can be resolved by using separate rather than composite sync if you are not already doing so.  If you are already using separate sync, then I don't know what to tell you.

I was using a separate V and H sync on this, unless the monitor takes the separate syncs and combines them.  I've heard many of these monitors have squished sides, so I think it's a chronic problem for them. 

These are separate issues.  The side squishing is sadly far too common, though it can be partially resolved by properly adjusting things (which isn't easy with the number of adjustments these have).  "Curling" of the first several scanlines towards the right side of the display happened to me on playstation derived sources but was completely resolved by externally separating the composite sync I was feeding it.  This monitor uses digital sync separation which may have trouble with certain composite sync signals.

These monitors aren't actually made by Betson, but Korean manufacturer Kortek.  Quality seems to vary widely and Betson clearly doesn't perform any further QA on them.  Big multisync monitors are complicated so there are always some quirks, but it sounds like you may have gotten a bit unlucky.  I've not had much issue with mine, but I don't use it for MAME, so I'm not constantly switching modes on it: though I do swap JAMMA boards frequently, including standard and medium res swaps, it's not like going back and forth between a frontend at SVGA and a game at CGA constantly like many MAME users do.

All that said, if you still want to dispose of it, I'll be happy to have somebody show up and pick it up for me.  I'm a reasonable drive away in Fort Wayne, IN, but I know someone in Chicagoland who would probaly be willing to hold on to it for me.  I need a 27" multisync for a cabinet I'm looking at.

Regarding replacements, the D9400 has mixed reviews.  WG has had serious problems with build quality (often worse than the worst of Kortek) sinc the late 90s, but some say they have improved since then.  The Wei-Ya/Billabs seem to work well, but they have a smaller dot-pitch which makes low res games look less "authentic" and some have reported them blowing up shortly after arrival (service was good, though).

Ick, I don't like some Wei-Yas have blown up after arrival.  Part of my leaning towards the WG is I'm within driving distance to the WG service facility, so if it were to die on me, I can get it fixed.

But anyway, this weekend I'm going to be looking at it, seeing if I can get it up and running again.  I'm likely to get rid of it and go with one of the other two, if it runs I'll probably sell it fairly cheap, but if I can't it's free to a good home.

I think you will find that no monitor of this nature is 100% perfect.  These are complicated beasts that, frankly, aren't designed for what you want to do.  These are designed to give operators the flexibility of swapping games in a cabinet without changing the monitor.  Constantly switching between the highest supported mode (SVGA) and the lowest supported mode (CGA) with no down-time in between is probably just not something the designers anticipated.

When I say WG has had problems, I mean it.  There have been several reports of them blowing up straight out of the box.  I don't mean just shortly after arrival (they apparently do that, too), but the instant they get plugged in.  Apparently WG doesn't even power them on before sending them and they are often shipped set so incorrectly that powering them on with no signal causes things to pop.  They are also famous for absolutely terrible solder joints that fail randomly and intermittently.  Again, some say this may have gotten better in the past 6 months or so, but who knows.

[mewyn]

The moisture won't be visible necessarily.  However, it sounds like the classic "mode switch" failure.  I don't have the manual for the monitor handy to troubleshoot it any further, unfortunately.  I can look later.  Ken, qrz, and grantspain are far more experienced with monitor repair than I am, so they may have other ideas, certainly.

Can you further describe what happened?  Were there any video oddities (visual) during this "grinding" noise?

If I remember correctly, I remember seeing the game screen come up then go out really quick.  I think it was all too quick to notice any graphical distortions, but to my best recollection it looked like the image as a tube turns on then off.

These are separate issues.  The side squishing is sadly far too common, though it can be partially resolved by properly adjusting things (which isn't easy with the number of adjustments these have).  "Curling" of the first several scanlines towards the right side of the display happened to me on playstation derived sources but was completely resolved by externally separating the composite sync I was feeding it.  This monitor uses digital sync separation which may have trouble with certain composite sync signals.

As far as this goes, if I can get the monitor back up, maybe I'll look at it.  It's never been a huge issue with me, I would just prefer it to be okay.  Again, as far as I've been aware there's been no composite sync lines, it's being fed with 5-line VGA, red, green, blue, vsync and hsync.  Oh, and they were curled upwards to the left, not right.  Kind of like the electron beam was coming in for a landing

I think you will find that no monitor of this nature is 100% perfect.  These are complicated beasts that, frankly, aren't designed for what you want to do.  These are designed to give operators the flexibility of swapping games in a cabinet without changing the monitor.  Constantly switching between the highest supported mode (SVGA) and the lowest supported mode (CGA) with no down-time in between is probably just not something the designers anticipated.

When I say WG has had problems, I mean it.  There have been several reports of them blowing up straight out of the box.  I don't mean just shortly after arrival (they apparently do that, too), but the instant they get plugged in.  Apparently WG doesn't even power them on before sending them and they are often shipped set so incorrectly that powering them on with no signal causes things to pop.  They are also famous for absolutely terrible solder joints that fail randomly and intermittently.  Again, some say this may have gotten better in the past 6 months or so, but who knows.

Yah, there's give and take all along.  I've also been thinking, what other recommendations may be made if I were wanting to give up authenticity.  I'd like to still have pixels be as square as possible, but what other, more durable, solutions have people used?

[mewyn]

Well, good news.  I got the monitor working.  Seems all it wanted was a bit of a rest.  My dad and I went through some of the common trouble spots for a monitor, making sure as many of the components as we could were good, found that they all were, and decided to try to fire it up again.  Came up perfectly, well as perfectly as this monitor has been.

So all is well for me.  At this point, I'm going to keep using it for a while.  I may sell it in time if I feel I want something different.

[Ummon]

Perhaps there was moisture in it afterall.

[miles2912]

Well, good news.  I got the monitor working.  Seems all it wanted was a bit of a rest.  My dad and I went through some of the common trouble spots for a monitor, making sure as many of the components as we could were good, found that they all were, and decided to try to fire it up again.  Came up perfectly, well as perfectly as this monitor has been.

So all is well for me.  At this point, I'm going to keep using it for a while.  I may sell it in time if I feel I want something different.

Did you remove all the non 60hz resolutions?

[MonMotha]

It's not non-60Hz that causes the problem.  Changing the horizontal frequency is what causes huge, nasty transients until all the s-correction and such can catch up.  If you're running a MAME frontend at SVGA or VGA and the games are CGA, that's a lot of switching, and eventually you may have problems.

[Ummon]

I have a spare, fresh chassis for any kind of related eventuality.

[retrometro]

From the posts you see in this forum, you'd think that only Wells Gardner monitors blow up.