Advice on Star Trek Cock-pit.

[stan2323]

I got a Star Trek Cock-pit recently.  It does not work.  When turned on there is no sound, not even a pop, or picture, not even a flicker.  The lights on the coin door come on.  The transformer is working.  Since there is no sound or picture I suspect it is the boards.  It came with 2 sets of boards.  See the picture below for the difference between the sets. 

This is the set that was in the game.  The wires go from the outside plugs to push things on the back of the red connectors that push into the connectors on the boards.  See the black arrow in the picture that points to both ends of the wires. 



This is the 2nd set.  The red connectors that connect to the board are connected to a flat connector on the outside of the box.  I think it is a JAMMA connector?  This makes me think that they came from an upright machine.  See the white arrows in the picture that point to both ends of the wires.



I think the boards would be the same so I the first thing I plan to do is swap the boards out one at a time and see if it works.  Is this a good idea?  Any other advice would be appreciated.  What would you do if it were yours?

Below are some more pictures for GP. 
Close up of boards.

Inside the seat.

Inside the monitor.

Outside.




Boards side by side.

[TOK]

Cool score! I love this game. Whats funny is that I didn't initially play it in arcades because I'm not really into Star Trek, and the split up screen makes it look a lot harder than it actually is. I finally gave it a chance when I was tired of everything else and got hooked on it.

Just from what I've read on newsgroups and stuff, the Sega vectors are pretty finicky. If it still has the Electrohome monitor in it, they're not very highly regarded. I don't know much more about the game or board variations, but the edge connector on it isn't JAMMA, Star Trek is too old for that.

Here is a page with FAQ's and .PDF's on Sega hardware. Hope it helps.
http://users.rcn.com/jenison/mars/

Possibly heresy, but if I found the monitor and boardsets were both dead, I'd probably make it a dedicated MAME machine, running Star Trek on a 19" 4:3 LCD. Good luck!

[stan2323]

Cool score! I love this game. Whats funny is that I didn't initially play it in arcades because I'm not really into Star Trek, and the split up screen makes it look a lot harder than it actually is. I finally gave it a chance when I was tired of everything else and got hooked on it.

Just from what I've read on newsgroups and stuff, the Sega vectors are pretty finicky. If it still has the Electrohome monitor in it, they're not very highly regarded. I don't know much more about the game or board variations, but the edge connector on it isn't JAMMA, Star Trek is too old for that.

Thanks.  I am a huge Star Trek Fan and I am making the game room a Star Trek theme. 

The monitor is a Tempest monitor.  When I was working on it a few minuets ago I saw the Tempest burned into the monitor when I look at it at an angle. 

Here is a page with FAQ's and .PDF's on Sega hardware. Hope it helps.
http://users.rcn.com/jenison/mars/

Possibly heresy, but if I found the monitor and boardsets were both dead, I'd probably make it a dedicated MAME machine, running Star Trek on a 19" 4:3 LCD. Good luck!

Thanks for the link and the dedicated Mame is what I was considering as the last resort.

[S0L]

Apologies as I can't offer any advice that would help, but I've never seen a Star Trek Cockpit and that is one amazing looking machine. It looks in spotloss condition too!

Very nice, I hope you manage to get it working!

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S0L
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[Minwah]

Nice machine - good luck!!

[Level42]

Possibly heresy, but if I found the monitor and boardsets were both dead, I'd probably make it a dedicated MAME machine, running Star Trek on a 19" 4:3 LCD. Good luck!

DAMN, where is that vomiting smiley when you need it !!!!!!


YUGH !!!!!!!!!!!


An LCD for a Vector.......THE HORROR !!!!

A Tempest monitor is 99% likely a WG6100 so you're not only lucky to get what looks like a minty ST cockpit, but also have a "good" vector monitor in there.

Edit: Doesn't look like a WG at all.........that is the original Electohome G08. Buy a fire extinguisher......

I guess they replaced the tube with one from a WG6100 that were mostly in Tempests, both monitors use the same tube.

Here's the G08 Faq:
G08 FAQ


(HEY, I SHORTENED A LINK ! )

Instead of just swapping boards, I think you should check all voltages going to the monitor and the board-set first. If both monitor AND pcb don't seem to do anything, there could be something as simple as a blown fuse or another common fault not delivering power to the parts.

Lovely cab  !!!! And I really hope you can restore it !

[ArtMAME]

If you do a dedicated MAME, at least use a CRT monitor, don't use no stinkin' LCD man...  Even better yet, get an SVGA arcade monitor from HAPP or Arcadeshop and run it at 800x600. 

I have an 19" SVGA arcade monitor in my dedicated MAME Tempest and it looks great without the maintenance hassles of a color vector monitor or original boardset.

[Level42]

Nothing looks like a real vector. Nothing.


But I like your solution better than a LCD....

[ArtMAME]

Nothing looks like a real vector. Nothing.


But I like your solution better than a LCD....

I agree, nothing better than a Vector.  I got the Tempest cabinet as an empty, and I just happened to have an extra SVGA sitting around.  Works great and my wife loves the Tempest game.

[TOK]

I thought LCD's did vectors a little better than standard CRT's, which was the basis for my comment. I didn't think about the black level not being as good because on the cab I have with the LCD I use a tinted bezel that fixes the poorer black level.

[ChadTower]

I thought LCD's did vectors a little better than standard CRT's, which was the basis for my comment. I didn't think about the black level not being as good because on the cab I have with the LCD I use a tinted bezel that fixes the poorer black level.

Some do and they are getting better.  They aren't there yet, though, and it's possible they won't ever be.

[RayB]

Man, there was one of those on Ebay a few years back for $99 and no one was biting. Of course, it had been converted to "Road Riot" and was yellowed. But my gut kept telling me to buy it and MAME it... heheh. The $200 shipping stopped me. I still kind of regret it... Would be like a geek centerpiece to have that thing... I could sit in it and watch movies from "the captain's chair". HAhahaha

[Matthew Fisher]

I thought LCD's did vectors a little better than standard CRT's, which was the basis for my comment. I didn't think about the black level not being as good because on the cab I have with the LCD I use a tinted bezel that fixes the poorer black level.

Isn't that a little like saying that a dime does a better job than a nickel at imitating a twenty-dollar bill?   

Seriously, great score and I hope you can get it working and that it doesn't catch on fire.  Please don't mame that thing!

[tta583]

I vote fix the vector.  Have you tried Chad?  http://www.arcadecup.com/

I have never used him but have read nothing but great things for a long time.  He hangs out a lot at KLOV.  He may be around here as well but I'm not over here all that much.  His site says he does a G08 for 120 (including return shipping).  5 bucks less than even the ever popular 6100.  I want to say he even includes a 90 day warranty.  Don't hold me to that.  He shoots for like a 10 day turn around.

Like I said, I have never used him as I generally punish myself with my own repairs. The only reason I bring it up is, well, I like the idea of a real vector and if he were around he tends to offer advice but is not much for tooting his own horn and pushing a service sale.  His rep tends to speak for itself as I see it.

good luck,

Brent

[ArtMAME]

Yes, Chad is great.  I sent him an Asteroids monitor for a cabinet I was reviving.  Got it back, stuck it in the Asteroids cabinet, works great.  My friend really loves that Asteroids machine now.

[Level42]

There's an Amplifone (Working) for sale on KLOV.

http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=823899&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

$750,- freaking dollars.


I paid that for my SW cockpit (incl. 25" Amplifone )

[Havok]

Make him an offer - you might get it for less. And when you get it working, I'm coming over!

[stan2323]

Update

The game came with a manual.  I had copies made of the fold out schematics in the back of it so I could use them in the shop and write on them to keep track of what I tested.  When I test something and it is good I highlight it in green on the drawing. 

I played Star Trek on my MAME machine to see what I should see on the monitor and hear.  I should see SEAG on the screen first and I should hear it a sound when a coin is inserted. 

I have been checking and tracing circuits the last couple of days. 

First I check the fuses in the monitor, power supply, and EMI filter, and they are all good.   I also inspected all the plugs and wiring I could see looking for a bent pin or broken wire they looked OK.  I checked the pot for the volume, switch inter locks, power switch, and the coin switches, they were easy to test and working.  Then I checked the transformer, and power supply, both good, putting out the right voltage.  Next I pulled out the board box and took the boards out to clean out the dust that had build up inside.  I inspected each one looking for burn contacts and other signs of damage.  I put them back together and installed the board box.  Then I check the AC voltage at the monitor and it was good.  It is looking more and more like the circuit boards. 

Scheduled for testing tomorrow is game buttons speakers, counter, and dial.  I am also going over the schematics of each board to see if I can do any testing on them.  I will swap out the boards one by one to see if that helps. 

Now with the symptoms I have, no picture, no sound when coin is inserted I suspect the boards are not out putting anything.

Thanks for your suggestions your advice is appreciated.  If I can not make any head way I will think about sending one set of boards to Chad.

Stan

[Level42]

Good work so far (right steps).

One question, do hear any deflection chatter on the monitor ? Do you see the neck-glow ?

[stan2323]

Buttons, dial, and speakers are good. 

I do not see any neck glow.  I thought you had to have a signal to the monitor to have neck glow.  The input to the monitor has 2 wires that have .64 volts the others near 0 the readings are 0 to .6 mille volts and fluxuates.  As I said before the AC to the monitor at 92 voltsthat is should be.

When first turned on I hear something that sounds like a TV first turning on.  After that I hear nothing. 

What is deflection chatter? 

Stan 

[Level42]

As long as the monitor is powered up and it's properly working, there should be some neckglow, even with no signals.

Deflection chatter is the sound coming from the yoke around the CRT when there are deflection "signals" going through it. It sounds a bit like a rattling sound. The frequency changes with the signal it gets fed, f.i. if there are a lot of small items to be drawn on the screen it will rattle "faster" (higher freq.) than when there are only a low number of items on screen.

You can hear it pretty well on this video I shot from my Star Wars:

Right after I turn it on you hear it starts that sound:

[stan2323]

No deflection chatter and like I said before I do not see any neck glow.  This would mean the monitor needs work. 

Witch should I do first trouble shoot the monitor or the circuit boards?

Stan

[Level42]

Tough call. Bet you don't have another vector monitor around to test the boards with. You could do the swap thing first, worth a try at least. If you get any sounds that's a good thing already.

The monitor could be an easy fix if it's just some fuse, but I doubt that's the case. I'm not familiar with the G08's common problems, check out the FAQ I linke to earlier for any info about that.

Are you registered to the KLOV forum or RGVAC ? There's more chance of people knowing more about this game than here.

I actually already opened a thread about your cab there asking for some help:
http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=2&Number=823941&an=0&page=1#Post823941

So far, not really useful but there seem to be some guys who own a cab/boards.

[stan2323]

I have tried to get an account there before but I can not.  I have a Webmagic account and there is a link that said if you have an account and need a user name for the message board click here but I cannot figure it out.  I enter my info and it said that email is already in use.  I have not registered before.  I would like to chime in on that other board but without an account I can not.

Thanks for starting a topic for me.

Stan

[RayB]

Web Magic = Klov

Log in via Klo'v front page message board log in.

(its a stupid set up they have)

[Level42]

Yeah, it's so stupid, I forgot how I finally succeeded in getting registered...

[stan2323]

Web Magic = Klov

Log in via Klo'v front page message board log in.

(its a stupid set up they have)

I am on the KLOV home page logged in but when I go to the message boards I am not logged in.  I have used my KLOV, Arcade-Museum, and VAPS at all log in screens that come up.  No luck with anything I tried.  Worst part about it is I can not even use the search without being logged in.

I guess they want to keep new people out.   

Stan

[stan2323]

Not being able to get to KLOV is a pain as I can not use the search there to look for help.  If someone here could do a quick search there and post any links that may help I would appreciate it very much.  I need info on testing/repair of the monitor, monitor boards, and the game boards.

I moved the game into the house to be able to work on it more often and in a better environment.  I started where I left off last time and was setting up to test the XY timing board and XY control board.  I did not have a chance to test as after about 5 minutes of being turned on it blew the main fuse in the filter/voltage selector box.  Well I got another fuse and it blew that one right away.  Now I have to start from the beginning to look for a short on the main lines or a ground. 

I was wondering if it should be a fast acting fuse or a slow burn?  I can not find anything that said in the manual.  The old one looked like a slow burn.  It has the fuse wire coiled like a slow burn not straight like fast acting.

Stan

 

[stan2323]

I THINK there is a short in the transformer.  That is the reason I am blowing fuses.  Any one know where I can get another transformer?  I can not find the voltages of the lower 3 windings on the right so I can not figure out the turns ration.  If I knew the voltages of them I could replace it with several transformers of the right turns ration.  I am doubtful that I will find an exact replacement. 

When I disconnect the transformer and turn on the unit the fan runs and it does not blow the fuse. 

Any other advice?

Transformer has these # on it
560-0055-F
TEX TRANS
P603582
1187-8138

See the attached diagram for measurements of the resistance of the windings of the transformer.

[Kevin Mullins]

As I said before the AC to the monitor at 46.5 volts

Sounds about right for one side of the power supply.
But you should get that reading from the center pin to each of the pins to either side of the center pin.
(around 90VAC if you take a reading from the two outer pins)

When I disconnect the transformer and turn on the unit the fan runs and it does not blow the fuse. 

Which side of the transformer are you disconnecting?

If you disconnect the OUTPUT side and the fuse does not blow, then it's not the transformer.
If there are multiple outputs that can be disconnected then connect them one at a time until the fuse blows. This should narrow it down a bit if it's a component other than the transformer itself.

You seem to be well on your way with some good troubleshooting. 
But sometimes you come across a machine that may have multiple issues, so don't give up.

[stan2323]

Which side of the transformer are you disconnecting?

I disconnected the input to the transformer.  I pulled the whole transformer/board/power supply out to work on it.
 
I think I have multiple issues.  1st transformer, 2nd boards, 3rd monitor.  I think the transformer is going to be a show stopper.  I have been researching it on the net and had no luck. 

Stan

[SirPeale]

That's a question to ask @ RGVAC.

[stan2323]

Someone in another form suggested a new power supply.  If I went that route I would get rid of the current transformer and power supply and replace them.

Any body know if a computer power supply will work?
I need +5, -5, +12, and -12V in the DC range.  The others voltages are AC that I could use transformers for.
I am thinking this one may work.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2143207&Sku=ULT33134

[TOK]

I don't consider myself an expert, but I'd suggest getting a real arcade game supply. They usually have a 5 volt adjustment knob on them in case the board is a little flakey, and the machine you have is among the flakiest. 

I don't think you're really saving any money going that route either. The Golden Tee power supply I bought cost less than that.

[stan2323]

I am not looking to save money per say.  I am looking for the best way to do this.  I have not found an arcade power supply that has +12, -12, +5, and -5. 

To be truthfull I am not sure where to begin to look for one.  I go to google and type in power supply or arcade power supply and do not find anything that looks like it will work. 

Where can I find an arcade power supply?

Stan

[RayB]

Stan... try "the usual" arcade parts places.

[stan2323]

Stan... try "the usual" arcade parts places.

What are they?  I have not had to go tracking down parts like this before.

[RayB]

Read the Wiki.

[stan2323]

Just from what I've read on newsgroups and stuff, the Sega vectors are pretty finicky. If it still has the Electrohome monitor in it, they're not very highly regarded.

that is the original Electohome G08. Buy a fire extinguisher......

Seriously, great score and I hope you can get it working and that it doesn't catch on fire. 

I don't consider myself an expert, but I'd suggest getting a real arcade game supply. They usually have a 5 volt adjustment knob on them in case the board is a little flakey, and the machine you have is among the flakiest. 

From another form.

You'll probably come out ahead if you just buy a new power supply.  I think those were famous for catching fire! 

You have not inspired my confidence.  After more digging looking and so on I am beginning to think a Mame may be the way to go.

Keep it original

Disadvantages – May burn down my house, may have to discharge a fire extinguisher in the house, may take long time to find parts, may take long time to fix, may have many issues, once fixed requires close monitoring, requires regular maintenance, may be very expensive, it will break again sooner or later, and the WORST of all I may not be able to play the game for a year or more.

Advantages – It will be original hardware, monitor, and game play. (These do not hold up for me.)

MAME it

Advantages – I have a 21 inch CRT and a 19 inch CRT one of witch will work, I have a computer that will work, I can do it relatively quick in a week or so, I can play other spinner games also if I want to, do not have to worry about fire from the power supply or monitor, do not have to worry about regular maintenance, parts I would need are readily available, will play so close to the original that very few people will be able to tell the difference, and the BIGGEST I can play the game in a week or so. 

Disadvantages – It will not be original hardware, monitor and it will look a slight bit different. (These do not hold up for me.)

Can anyone give a better argument to not MAME it?  I want logical arguments.

I know I am going to get flamed, harassed, and all kinds of people saying I am the devils spawn and a lot of other names that can not be mentioned here.  They need to remember they had the chance to bid on it and buy it the same way I did on Ebay.  THEY COULD HAVE SAVED IT IF THEY WANTED TO PUT THERE MONEY WERE THERE MOUTH IS BUT THEY DID NOT BUY IT I DID.

Stan

[TOK]

My feeling is that if you MAME it as a Star Trek, you're not doing any irreparable damage to it, you're just adding a monitor and computer to play the original game. The cab doesn't really lend itself to playing much else (you could play a few other spinner games on there), so it's not like you're hacking the controls off and turning it into a Street Fighter II.

I was kind of under the impression that an LCD created more accurate looking vector display, but most seemed to disagree with that. As much as I love the dedicated stuff, I think this is a case where I'd probably MAME it to play the original game.