Author Topic: So . . . I'm not the only one that thinks that the Wii's motion sensors suck (Read 13955 times)

shmokes · « **Reply #40 on:** July 18, 2008, 12:16:27 pm »

A negative one.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #41 on:** July 19, 2008, 02:07:43 pm »

Quote from: shmokes on July 17, 2008, 09:48:18 am

I wonder if Bust-a-Move and the like aren't achieving 8-player simultaneous by having one player use a nunchuck tethered to another player's remote. The system was designed for only four simultaneous players (look at the lights on the controller).

That didn't actually occur to me. Seems to be much easier and more plausible to use the accessories for players 5-8.

Not that it matters much for BaMB! It's already established that most light control on the WiiMote is done by the console, not by the controller itself. A developer could theoretically selectively light additional LED's beyond the typical 1,2,3,4 assignments. ie, player 5 could be LED's 1+4, 6 == 2+4, 7 == 3+4 and 8 could be 1+3+4 or whatever. That scheme doesn't exactly address usability issues though. I wouldn't want to play positions 5-8 because I wouldn't care to remember what light combination meant what.

Quote from: ahofle on July 17, 2008, 01:21:35 pm

Looks like you are correct. From gamespot:

Quote
The only clever thing about the versus mode, and perhaps Bust-A-Move Bash! on the whole, is the way you can have eight players on four sets of controllers by having one player use the Wii Remote while the other uses the Nunchuk or the Classic Controller. The Nunchuk doesn't work so great, but the Classic Controller is unsurprisingly the best way to play the game, which makes the inability to use it anywhere besides the versus mode supremely frustrating.

That's interesting. Not saying Gamespot is wrong but check out the box art. When they pop that number on the WiiMote like that, isn't it supposed to denote the maximum number of simultaneous supported controllers? Not necessarily the maximum number of players? In fact, Nintendo explicitly defines what that symbol denotes on their webpage:

Quote

Wii Remote:
The Wii Remote is the unique wireless controller for the Wii console. The following icon depicts how many Wii Remotes can be used at the same time during play (up to 4).

Oops.

Kind of a bummer really. I thought it was pretty cool that someone figured out how to break the 4 controller limit on the Wii.

Oh well.

jfunk · « **Reply #42 on:** August 01, 2008, 08:39:56 am »

The video of the development tools in action actually gives me hope for the motion plus....

Engadget Link

ahofle · « **Reply #43 on:** August 01, 2008, 11:37:55 am »

Quote from: jfunk on August 01, 2008, 08:39:56 am

The video of the development tools in action actually gives me hope for the motion plus....

Engadget Link

Holy lord, after seeing that lightsaber demo, I have no doubt that the Wii could potentially host the greatest Star Wars game ever. I suppose it's too late for that SW game that's reportedly already in the works though.

patrickl · « **Reply #44 on:** August 01, 2008, 03:54:36 pm »

Indeed that looks promising. I'd be interested to see this improved controller in a tennis game.

I doubt it will be able to react fast enough for a sward fighting game though.

ahofle · « **Reply #45 on:** August 01, 2008, 04:40:49 pm »

There is a sword/fencing type game in the new Wii Sports Resort. Granted, the demo I saw did not look nearly as impressive as the lightsaber demo in that video jfunk just posted.

EDIT: here is the video. Looks jumpy and questionably responsive although that could just be the crappy youtube codec. Skip to 4:25 to see the sword game.

shmokes · « **Reply #46 on:** August 02, 2008, 03:29:14 am »

I read a review from someone who played it at E3. He said it did not feel 1:1, but that it did feel good and was lots of fun. In fact everyone who played Wii Sports Resort seemed to love the sword fighting by far the most.

Quote from: ahofle on August 01, 2008, 11:37:55 am

Holy lord, after seeing that lightsaber demo

Come on now . . . you heard the guy in the video. That is a sword fighting demo. He didn't say anything about lightsabers.

ChadTower · « **Reply #47 on:** August 02, 2008, 06:53:02 pm »

Quote from: shmokes on August 02, 2008, 03:29:14 am

Come on now . . . you heard the guy in the video. That is a sword fighting demo. He didn't say anything about lightsabers.

He did say "laser sword" at 3:05.

ahofle · « **Reply #48 on:** August 21, 2008, 04:24:59 pm »

Well it looks like another lightsaber game is coming to Wii, and no mention of taking advantage of the Wii Motion Plus. WTF is wrong with these developers?

http://wii.ign.com/articles/898/898724p1.html

Hemi · « **Reply #49 on:** August 21, 2008, 08:18:07 pm »

I'm wondering how well they tested the Wii-mote before the initial release. They had to have known it didn't react perfectly and had they tested it correctly the first time, we would not have to spend the extra cash for an add-on that should have already been included.

Better late than never.

AtomSmasher · « **Reply #50 on:** February 26, 2009, 11:21:44 pm »

Quote from: bishmasterb on July 17, 2008, 07:40:57 pm

Just a clarification, sorry if this has been addressed already:

Does this hardware add-on work transparently with all existing software, or does it only provide benefit to software specifically written to take advantage of it?

Today I got to do a lot of work with the new Motion Plus and I can definately say that only software written specifically for it will take advantage of it, which means it won't help old games.

However, it is pretty freaking awesome how accurate it is. This is definately the wiimote we all thought the original was going to be.

AtomSmasher · « **Reply #51 on:** February 27, 2009, 02:05:20 am »

I just saw that EA recently announced Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10 and Grand Slam Tennis are both going to support the MotionPlus, which could make it a must have item for the Wii.

http://www.gamecyte.com/tiger-woods-10-grand-slam-tennis-swing-into-june-with-motionplus-support

Red · « **Reply #52 on:** February 27, 2009, 04:03:08 am »

Is this new MotionPlus an add-on item to go on the orginal wiimote controller or is it a whole new wiimote controller with MotionPlus built in? Thanks.

patrickl · « **Reply #53 on:** February 27, 2009, 04:17:12 am »

Quote from: Red on February 27, 2009, 04:03:08 am

Is this new MotionPlus an add-on item to go on the orginal wiimote controller or is it a whole new wiimote controller with MotionPlus built in? Thanks.

Did you try clicking on the link above? Or to read the first post in the thread?

Red · « **Reply #54 on:** February 27, 2009, 07:43:03 am »

Another accessory to buy, ugh. Hopefully they will include this MotionPlus into a new wiimote model as I don't think too many people are going to buy this add-on just to have a correct functioning wiimote that should have been incorporated from the beginning.

ChadTower · « **Reply #55 on:** February 27, 2009, 10:36:44 am »

Any games that aren't golf or tennis that use it? Can't say I care much about either one on the Wii. If I want to play a sport I'll do it outside.

AtomSmasher · « **Reply #56 on:** February 27, 2009, 11:08:44 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on February 27, 2009, 10:36:44 am

Any games that aren't golf or tennis that use it? Can't say I care much about either one on the Wii. If I want to play a sport I'll do it outside.

http://www.gamecyte.com/ea-confirms-motionplus-support-for-dead-space-wii

Plus the game I'm working on will use it, but it's a minigame collection and we're only using the Mo-Plus to enhance the games, we're not designing any games exclusively around it (not yet anyways).

It's really simple for developers to use, it only took me half a day yesterday to re-write our controller class to support it (so now we can easily use it throughout our game), so I'm sure it'd take someone who knew what they were doing only an hour or so

My guess is that virtually every Wii game in the future will support it in one way or another. If they don't, then they are incredibly lazy and the game probably sucks anyways.

ChadTower · « **Reply #57 on:** February 27, 2009, 11:32:50 am »

Cool! That is definitely more my style of gaming. Until I get the opportunity to wander around shooting zombies IRL, that is.

danny_galaga · « **Reply #58 on:** March 01, 2009, 07:09:24 am »

Quote from: AtomSmasher on February 27, 2009, 11:08:44 am

Quote from: ChadTower on February 27, 2009, 10:36:44 am

Any games that aren't golf or tennis that use it? Can't say I care much about either one on the Wii. If I want to play a sport I'll do it outside.
http://www.gamecyte.com/ea-confirms-motionplus-support-for-dead-space-wii

i guess this will mean a new gun accessory too, since i dont suppose the motion plus is going to fit into existing guns...

shmokes · « **Reply #59 on:** March 03, 2009, 12:35:42 am »

I bet it gets incorporated into new controllers, though, so you won't even need the add-on except to bring your old controllers up to speed. I'll bet 6 months after the release that Nintendo doesn't even sell controllers without Motion Plus integrated into it. They won't make as much money off each controller sale as they would for every controller+motion plus they sell, but they'll want to take care of the fractured market and the confusion that the peripheral will create as soon as possible.

danny_galaga · « **Reply #60 on:** March 03, 2009, 02:00:09 am »

yeah, thats my guess too. im a bit bummed they didnt do it sooner. im getting my housemate a wii fit for her birthday at the end of a month. and then getting myself a wii to use it on

patrickl · « **Reply #61 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:36:00 am »

Quote from: shmokes on March 03, 2009, 12:35:42 am

I bet it gets incorporated into new controllers, though, so you won't even need the add-on except to bring your old controllers up to speed.

Would that technically even be possible? If the distribution of the sensors changes over the controller, then wouldn't the way you interpret the data need to change too?

ViciousXUSMC · « **Reply #62 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:57:27 am »

There is nothing wrong with the Wii motion sensors, I can tell you this as an educated programmer for the Wiimote.

I have written several scripts for the wimote for my PC and some of the other community created scripts are just totally awesome. Its a matter of how you interpreted the signals & data the wiimote gives you.

With a program like winremote you can see there are many many different inputs from the wiimote and they are accurate and consistent. Still it was not made for 1:1 motion mapping and thats what this new accessory does.

The wiimote is made up of tilt sensors, accelerometers, lots of stuff.

So many of the flaws in the controls were the flaw of the game programmers not the hardware. That can be seen even in more recent games that are much better than older games.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #63 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:51:44 am »

Quote from: patrickl on March 03, 2009, 04:36:00 am

Quote from: shmokes on March 03, 2009, 12:35:42 am
I bet it gets incorporated into new controllers, though, so you won't even need the add-on except to bring your old controllers up to speed.
Would that technically even be possible? If the distribution of the sensors changes over the controller, then wouldn't the way you interpret the data need to change too?

It would appear so, but they've probably worked out that older games would (should) simply discard the extra packets. According to the Wikipedia, the MotionPlus contains a passthru port. So logically, it's possible to create a new version of the WiiMote, all the extra hardware will be packed in pretty tight though.

But from a marketing standpoint, Nintendo might not want to. Each MotionPlus might work out to be an extra $20 in Nintendo's pocket. Or, they might make a feel good gesture and include it as a pack-in with some games like they did with the N64 Ram expansion. AFAIK, Nintendo isn't suffering for too much money at this point. We'll just have to wait and see.

AtomSmasher · « **Reply #64 on:** March 03, 2009, 10:56:53 am »

Quote from: ViciousXUSMC on March 03, 2009, 05:57:27 am

There is nothing wrong with the Wii motion sensors, I can tell you this as an educated programmer for the Wiimote.

I have written several scripts for the wimote for my PC and some of the other community created scripts are just totally awesome. Its a matter of how you interpreted the signals & data the wiimote gives you.

With a program like winremote you can see there are many many different inputs from the wiimote and they are accurate and consistent. Still it was not made for 1:1 motion mapping and thats what this new accessory does.

The wiimote is made up of tilt sensors, accelerometers, lots of stuff.

So many of the flaws in the controls were the flaw of the game programmers not the hardware. That can be seen even in more recent games that are much better than older games.

The problem with the wiimote is that the accelerameters (the only sensors on the wiimote, which also act as tilt sensors since gravity is always pulling them down) is that they max out very easily and when you stop moving the wiimote, they continue to move for a moment. Plus, they are constantly shaking a little bit when you are holding it, so you can't make it too accurate. In a game I made, I averaged the sensor data over the last 3 ticks and I still had to put in a minimum threshold on the movement, overwise it just jittered around. With the motion plus, its a whole new ball game. We all thought the original version of my game was quite fun and accurate enough, but it was a world of difference after modifying it to use the motion plus. I wasn't expecting the difference to be that drastic, but now the original version seems alsmost unplayable because it is no where near as precise.

It's like switching to HD tv. Before you have it you feel your old tv is doing a good enough job, but once you switch you realize you can never go back.

*edit* I just realized I said the accelerometers are the only sensors in the wiimote, but there are also the IR sensors which are quite accurate, but have nothing to do with what we're talking about.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #65 on:** March 03, 2009, 11:16:46 am »

Quote from: AtomSmasher on March 03, 2009, 10:56:53 am

In a game I made, I averaged the sensor data over the last 3 ticks and I still had to put in a minimum threshold on the movement, overwise it just jittered around.

Yeah, I didn't notice it at first (novelty) but that jitter really drives me crazy now. Some games are alright with smoothing the jitter out, but others... meh well. Worse, the Wii control panel suffers from jitter. All those Wii updates and Nintendo can't be bothered to smooth the jitter out? One of my friends thinks part (but not all) of the jitter might actually arise from a persons heartbeat. That seems strange to me, since it implies the sensor is more sensitive than it actually appears to be.

ChadTower · « **Reply #66 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:19:31 pm »

To bring up an old thread because I was looking at Xmas gifts...

...I gotta say the list of supported games for this add-on is disappointingly low. To be mild about it. $:-\$

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #67 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:26:25 pm »

Wii Sports Resort is pretty fun, though...

ChadTower · « **Reply #68 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:31:29 pm »

$60 for the three other Motion Plus units fun?

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #69 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:35:54 pm »

There are more games coming out that will support it. I plan on buying a black wiimote motionplus bundle, then if we get a game that uses it, I'll buy the motionplus attachment for our other wiimote. Luckily there's only two of us.

ChadTower · « **Reply #70 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:37:52 pm »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on December 14, 2009, 02:35:54 pm

There are more games coming out that will support it. I plan on buying a black wiimote motionplus bundle, then if we get a game that uses it, I'll buy the motionplus attachment for our other wiimote. Luckily there's only two of us.

I dunno, man. Looking at the list of games on Wikipedia, it is really thin, even in planned titles.

Hoopz · « **Reply #71 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:38:09 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on December 14, 2009, 02:31:29 pm

$60 for the three other Motion Plus units fun?

Yep. Even if you just get two of them, it's pretty fun.

shmokes · « **Reply #72 on:** December 14, 2009, 03:43:05 pm »

They should be free. It should be treated like any defective product. Nintendo should announce a giant recall for their defective product and give away free motion plus units to everyone. That would solve support for the device too.

hypernova · « **Reply #73 on:** December 15, 2009, 06:15:38 pm »

Tiger Woods '10 is a good reason as well for the WM+. I got four of them for those two (WSR) games alone.

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #74 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:31:23 am »

Quote from: hypernova on December 15, 2009, 06:15:38 pm

Tiger Woods '10

Is that with or without the virtual harem feature?

Hoopz · « **Reply #75 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:43:13 am »

Quote from: HarumaN on December 16, 2009, 08:31:23 am

Quote from: hypernova on December 15, 2009, 06:15:38 pm
Tiger Woods '10

Is that with or without the virtual harem feature?

Isn't it more than 10 now?

ChadTower · « **Reply #76 on:** December 16, 2009, 10:45:00 am »

I fear the next Wiimote attachment for Tiger Woods games.


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