Dragon's Lair , Aaron Giles is going to use directshow for Laser Disc Emulation

[mrclean]

Aaron Giles is going to use directshow for Laser Disc Emulation.

http://www.aarongiles.com/?p=234

[TheShanMan]

Good news! Seems like it won't be too long before we'll be able to play it in MAME. I wonder what, if any, advantages (or disadvantages) it will have over playing in Daphne.

[headkaze]

So I take it the metadata he's captured in the VBI is the same data stored in a frame file for Daphne. Sounds like some nice progress.

[Mr. Do]

Good news! Seems like it won't be too long before we'll be able to play it in MAME. I wonder what, if any, advantages (or disadvantages) it will have over playing in Daphne.

Maybe this?   

[um3k]

Good news! Seems like it won't be too long before we'll be able to play it in MAME. I wonder what, if any, advantages (or disadvantages) it will have over playing in Daphne.

Don't forget the sizing estimates that Aaron threw out there the first time around with Laserdisc support (http://www.aarongiles.com/?p=188 12/4/2006 - can you believe that long ago!).  We're looking at over 35gb per game!! (assuming 30min length)  Unless there is some serious compression going on, the entire set of Laserdisc games will be enormous!

[mrclean]

Maybe this?   

Jame's it seems that this artwork would work well in a vert mode, are those plans for a custom .lay file ?

[mrclean]

We're looking at over 35gb per game!! (assuming 30min length)  Unless there is some serious compression going on, the entire set of Laserdisc games will be enormous!

personally i'm only likely to only have 3 games.. DL1,DLII and Space Ace however even with the available space your right that's alot! But personally id rather it be acurate then worring about capacity

[Cananas]

We're looking at over 35gb per game!! (assuming 30min length)  Unless there is some serious compression going on, the entire set of Laserdisc games will be enormous!

personally i'm only likely to only have 3 games.. DL1,DLII and Space Ace however even with the available space your right that's alot! But personally id rather it be acurate then worring about capacity

Don't forget all American Lasergames, if you have a lightgun.

[RoomTenONine]

This news caused quite the stir over on the Daphne forums (big suprise  ).  I'd like to see this happen simply to give Daphne some competition and hopefully spark some new innovation.  Not that I'm ungrateful for Daphne and the developers there, but I do tire of their elitist attitude towards new fans/users. 

To be honest though, I just got the HD versions of DL and SA converted to Daphne compatible files and all is working VERY well.  They look and sound so damn good that I doubt I'd switch to another emulator for this...unless it handles the same files and does something more/better.  For example, lack of the fastboot option on the DLP enhanced ROMs is a PITA.

[mrclean]

To be honest though, I just got the HD versions of DL and SA converted to Daphne compatible files and all is working VERY well.  They look and sound so damn good

Just curious what software you used / converted these with, did you get the blu-ray or hddvd etc  ?

[RoomTenONine]

To be honest though, I just got the HD versions of DL and SA converted to Daphne compatible files and all is working VERY well.  They look and sound so damn good

Just curious what software you used / converted these with, did you get the blu-ray or hddvd etc  ?

I pulled them from the HD PC versions which are DVD (not the BD or HD-DVD formats).  I used primarily Sony Vegas for this.  I used the 4:3 ratio footage, not the widescreen.

FYI (and if this is a no-no, go ahead and delete) there is a torrent of HIGH DEF SA and DL with the Daphne format files out there (not from me).  I ended up pulling it down to compare to what I created (just getting into Vegas).  The torrents actually have a few incorrect ogg files (too short) that end up cutting off scenes in a matter of seconds.  I assume you'd be able to just pull the correct sound file from an older Daphne friendly version and replace it, but I just used what I made because I knew it worked.

[Ummon]

This news caused quite the stir over on the Daphne forums (big suprise  ).  I'd like to see this happen simply to give Daphne some competition and hopefully spark some new innovation.  Not that I'm ungrateful for Daphne and the developers there, but I do tire of their elitist attitude towards new fans/users. 

What I think comes across as elitism or whatever to newbs is really a tiredness of people not reading the docs and faqs and stuff. I think Daphne is great. It does well what it aims to do. What new do you think they need to do?

I am certainly curious, though, to see where LDs are going in Mame.

[jasonbar]

Not that I'm ungrateful for Daphne and the developers there, but I do tire of their elitist attitude towards new fans/users. 

As a stumbling newbie, I had nothing but good experiences & worthwhile help from folks over there, including the guy developing the software.   I got Daphne running just great & haven't had to go over to the Daphne forum in ages--I'm all set, laser-wise!  :]

Thanks,
-Jason

[mrclean]

To be honest though, I just got the HD versions of DL and SA converted to Daphne compatible files and all is working VERY well.  They look and sound so damn good

I pulled them from the HD PC versions which are DVD (not the BD or HD-DVD formats).  I used primarily Sony Vegas for this.  I used the 4:3 ratio footage, not the widescreen.

FYI (and if this is a no-no, go ahead and delete) there is a torrent of HIGH DEF SA and DL with the Daphne format files out there (not from me).  I ended up pulling it down to compare to what I created (just getting into Vegas).  The torrents actually have a few incorrect ogg files (too short) that end up cutting off scenes in a matter of seconds.  I assume you'd be able to just pull the correct sound file from an older Daphne friendly version and replace it, but I just used what I made because I knew it worked.

I have seen the torrent your talking about, and they are PAL files..At least according to my daphne log file, its been converting them from PAL to NTSC for me.. And within game play daphne converts them to NTSC 23 frames to 29.97 frames etc, this can be annoying because during game play you will see a loading screen very briefly from daphne.
Unless  there is a way to turn off that loading of the files screen / have it hidden? But those files are a much more improved version of the Laser Disc Rips that were out, I'm really curious as to what the quality in MAME will look like once aaron is done.

[RoomTenONine]

To be honest though, I just got the HD versions of DL and SA converted to Daphne compatible files and all is working VERY well.  They look and sound so damn good

I pulled them from the HD PC versions which are DVD (not the BD or HD-DVD formats).  I used primarily Sony Vegas for this.  I used the 4:3 ratio footage, not the widescreen.

FYI (and if this is a no-no, go ahead and delete) there is a torrent of HIGH DEF SA and DL with the Daphne format files out there (not from me).  I ended up pulling it down to compare to what I created (just getting into Vegas).  The torrents actually have a few incorrect ogg files (too short) that end up cutting off scenes in a matter of seconds.  I assume you'd be able to just pull the correct sound file from an older Daphne friendly version and replace it, but I just used what I made because I knew it worked.

I have seen the torrent your talking about, and they are PAL files..At least according to my daphne log file, its been converting them from PAL to NTSC for me.. And within game play daphne converts them to NTSC 23 frames to 29.97 frames etc, this can be annoying because during game play you will see a loading screen very briefly from daphne.
Unless  there is a way to turn off that loading of the files screen / have it hidden? But those files are a much more improved version of the Laser Disc Rips that were out, I'm really curious as to what the quality in MAME will look like once aaron is done.

If you delete all the DAT files in your video folder and let the emulator parse the video on the next run you won't get those loads in between.

I believe the original Dragon's Lair and Space Ace were in 24FPS as you can see from the Advanced Video section on the Daphne wiki

About cartoon-based laserdisc games : Most cartoon games will look better if they are converted from 29.97 fps to their original 23.976 fps (namely Dragon's Lair and Space Ace). This is known as performing an 'inverse telecine' on the video. Since this is not required, we won't say anymore about it here.

https://www.daphne-emu.com/mediawiki/index.php/Disc2Mpeg

This is just like older style film footage that runs at 24fps.  Remember, 24fps is NOT PAL.  PAL runs at 25 fps and there are some real hurdles when converting film 24fps to the PAL framerate.  So I doubt those files are PAL, they are just the original film quality 24 FPS footage and because you have the VLDP emulating an NTSC machine it performs a 3:2 pulldown. converting it to 30fps for the NTSC standard.  I am no Daphne expert, but I'm just using what I know about DVD/film and basic AV to surmise that Daphne is acting just like your DVD or LD machine would with a 24fps film.

[RoomTenONine]

This news caused quite the stir over on the Daphne forums (big suprise  ).  I'd like to see this happen simply to give Daphne some competition and hopefully spark some new innovation.  Not that I'm ungrateful for Daphne and the developers there, but I do tire of their elitist attitude towards new fans/users. 

What I think comes across as elitism or whatever to newbs is really a tiredness of people not reading the docs and faqs and stuff. I think Daphne is great. It does well what it aims to do. What new do you think they need to do?

I am certainly curious, though, to see where LDs are going in Mame.

The elitism I've noticed towards newer users is there and this is coming from someone who isn't new to emulation.  You just catch more flies with honey IMO.  Yes we all can go read the FAQs, but to be honest the disparity between the FAQ and the wiki documentation and the disjointed jumping between the two (which one initially would not think is needed) can be frustrating for a new user.  If they don't want so many questions and are going to get upset when someone asks they should make the documentation more streamlined and obvious.  Also if you don't have the specific media they want (yet have a recent digital leisure game) and/or don't want to use the torrent feature you are out of luck in terms of help.  There are reasons folks may not want to torrent (or can't) and would like to use their own DVD rips of the files...a method once supported by the Daphne folks and now garners ill comments and no support.

Like I said, I am not ungrateful nor do I think they HAVE to follow any of my suggestions.  It is just my take on what I've seen in that camp over the last year or so.  A few years ago I was asking for help there and they were awesome.  I took a long hiatus from this hobby and since I've come back I've noticed a change with them.

As far as new features, support or use of the HD video from DL would be awesome.  Edit: I'd like to see nicer overlays and fastboot for all games and their daughter roms.

Not that I'm ungrateful for Daphne and the developers there, but I do tire of their elitist attitude towards new fans/users. 

As a stumbling newbie, I had nothing but good experiences & worthwhile help from folks over there, including the guy developing the software.   I got Daphne running just great & haven't had to go over to the Daphne forum in ages--I'm all, laser-wise!  :]

Thanks,
-Jason

Yeah, a while back I found them to be super helpful.  Recently attitudes have changed IMO.  I don't want to sound like I'm pointing the finger, just an observation.  Take it for what you will.

[mrclean]

  I just want to know that once MAME / Aaron decides to have a chd or actual mpeg rips or whatever the method he uses , can we the end users or i have a feeling someone I hope will implement a way for the blu-ray versions to be incorporated to also work with MAME. While i'm all for acurate emulation, nothing better than a clean crisp video / revised being able to play it as an option would be nice 

[RoomTenONine]

Did you delete the DAT files?  I guarantee it will fix the processing bar that shows up between certain frames.

I do hope someone ends up fully supporting the new HD files.  I don't see why we'd need Bly-Ray support when the PC HD version are just as good.

[Jdurg]

I just want to know that once MAME / Aaron decides to have a chd or actual mpeg rips or whatever the method he uses , can we the end users or i have a feeling someone I hope will implement a way for the blu-ray versions to be incorporated to also work with MAME. While i'm all for acurate emulation, nothing better than a clean crisp video / revised being able to play it as an option would be nice 

What will be allowed for use in MAME is whatever quality the original arcade cabinets used.  If they did not use an HD version, then MAME will not allow it.  To ask for it is like asking for MAME to take the low-res early arcade games and somehow "enhance" them to a super high-res modern day version.   

[RoomTenONine]

I just want to know that once MAME / Aaron decides to have a chd or actual mpeg rips or whatever the method he uses , can we the end users or i have a feeling someone I hope will implement a way for the blu-ray versions to be incorporated to also work with MAME. While i'm all for acurate emulation, nothing better than a clean crisp video / revised being able to play it as an option would be nice 

What will be allowed for use in MAME is whatever quality the original arcade cabinets used.  If they did not use an HD version, then MAME will not allow it.  To ask for it is like asking for MAME to take the low-res early arcade games and somehow "enhance" them to a super high-res modern day version.   

Well sort of.  The new HD versions of DL and SA are from the original film footage the same used on the original games.  They are simply a better video transfer.  This footage works perfectly with the original ROMs and DLP enhanced ROMs used in the arcade cabs.

[Ummon]

Well sort of.  The new HD versions of DL and SA are from the original film footage the same used on the original games.  They are simply a better video transfer.  This footage works perfectly with the original ROMs and DLP enhanced ROMs used in the arcade cabs.

I guess we'll just see.

[mrclean]

i suppose this is a silly question, i dont think that daphne supports it, will MAME ? unsure how the game worked if it was a laser disc or not but what ever happened to the "Hologram Time Traveler" game ? I have it on DVD from digital leisure & does anyone have a release date on digital leisures HD Dragon's Lair II ? i'd like an HD Rip of that on my machine as well

[Havok]

I'll be glad to see this happen in Mame - Daphne joystick support sucks. Plus I am looking forward to seeing some of the ALG games - something that Ownby doesn't want to or can't do.

[Ummon]

As with Time Traveler, I think the ALG games haven't been pursued for technical reasons; perhaps there's no access to the software of those. I thought they were pretty hokey so it doesn't matter to me. Now Cube Quest is a different story. I think I got to play that once at Six Flags Magic Mountain.