Paypal and ebay clarified

[shardian]

For anyone considering selling on ebay:

First off, if you have less than 100 feedbacks you will be forced to accept paypal. This also means you will be forced to become verified, thus give paypal your bank info. You are also forced to accept all means of payment via paypal.
This isn't too abd of a deal though, since paypal allows personal accounts to accept 5 credit payments a year, right? WRONG!

They slipped in this new condition with the new ebay changes:

Personal accounts may not receive payments funded by credit card, debit card or Buyer Credit for eBay or eBay Express transactions without upgrading to Premier or Business accounts.

Good luck though finding this nice little tidbit out before selling on ebay. Honestly I wouldn't have a problem with that policy IF THEY WOULD STATE IT UP FRONT. In this case, I would have created a new account for ebay transactions, as they do allow you to keep a personal and a premier account with different bank and credit info. Now my long time paypal personal account is tainted. 

[SavannahLion]

Since eBay bought out PayPal (or the other way around, whatever), eBay has begun to redefine suck. eBay was fine, even fantastic, as an online marketplace. But the PayPal ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up policies has tainted the business.

The requirement to use PayPal if you have less than 100 feedback sucks ass. I've been a member since 1999. I don't do a lot of business, but I've been on eBay so long that member feedback actually expired forcing my feedback to below 100.

This isn't too abd of a deal though, since paypal allows personal accounts to accept 5 credit payments a year, right? WRONG!

They slipped in this new condition with the new ebay changes:

Personal accounts may not receive payments funded by credit card, debit card or Buyer Credit for eBay or eBay Express transactions without upgrading to Premier or Business accounts.

Despite that PayPal policies have continually redefined the meaning of suck, I always assumed that this was the policy right from the get go. This wasn't always the case?

[shardian]

Well technically they NEVER allow personal accounts to accept credit no matter their policy. I had a guy pay me once for an arcade part via credit - no ebay involved. The paypal help section of course said I could accept up to 5 without upgrading. However, there were no options for doing that! I looked everywhere. Finally, I clicked on the accept button, assuming that I would get a confirmation screen that would give me the choice of upgrading. Nope! I was instantly upgraded. I called CS and the guy was really rude. He grudgingly downgraded my account then gave me a lecture that this would be the first and last time they do that for me. And no, he did not tell me how to accept credit without upgrading.

[SavannahLion]

Apparently that's typical of eBay/PayPal. From 1999 to around 2007, I have never once needed to communicate in any form or way with either company. When I finally do need to talk to them about a compromised account, they attempted to force me through so many  hoops that I finally refused to budge any further and reported eBay to BBB (got a response from the, "CEO," with additional hurdles to go over. What a load of crap  ), reported the fraud to my bank and sent a formal complaint.

eBay is utter and complete crap with their customer service. I can accomplish more with a lot less with say, my utility company, than I can with eBay. eBay needs to take pointers from other larger companies, like AT&T, PG&E or whatever. eBay and PayPal still behave as if they're this little backwater company terrified of global marketing. ---smurfing--- ---punks---.

[Donkey_Kong]

Just out of curiosity mostly, why not just get the business account? I mean is there some disadvantage to it over a personal?   

[shardian]

Just out of curiosity mostly, why not just get the business account? I mean is there some disadvantage to it over a personal?   

There is quite a bit of difference. With a personal account, I can accept bank transfer and paypal funds payments free of charge. With an upgrade, I get charged a full fee scale even when a person pays with paypal funds.

They assume that everyone who sells on ebay is a power seller business person. That is not the case and totally defeats the original purpose of ebay. I have now sold twice on ebay since I have been a member

[Jdurg]

I am honestly shocked that there hasn't been a mass lawsuit against them for their monopolization of the "service" they provide and their "cahoots" with E-Bay.  There seems to be plenty of ground for it these days.

[Ginsu Victim]

It has certainly discouraged me from ever selling anything on there.

[SavannahLion]

I am honestly shocked that there hasn't been a mass lawsuit against them for their monopolization of the "service" they provide and their "cahoots" with E-Bay.  There seems to be plenty of ground for it these days.

Probably because there are no grounds for that kind of lawsuit. They would argue that Google's service is enough to break the monopolization of PayPal.

If anything, there should have been a class action lawsuit based on their overall business practices. http://paypalsucks.com/ is just one of several places that despise PayPal practices.

[RayB]

It costs about 5% to receive payments via Paypal as a verified business account.

Sending payments costs nothing.

[ark_ader]

Its the price you pay for doing business on a convenient platform.

Get over it!

I sell and buy via Paypal and its secure.

Want people to pay via cheque and money order?  Haha!  Dig yourself a hole or be a victim.

I cannot understand the issue here.

Its life.  We all pay it out through our nose anyway. 

Get used to it or don't use it.   

[shardian]

First off, taking it up the tail pipe w/o complaint is why this country is going down the creek without a paddle. Enough of that though...

I have no problem paying fees for services rendered...as long as they are clear up front. Paypal is WELL KNOWN for having deceptive and unclear service agreements. THIS is what I have a problem with.

Oh, and Paypal=secure? WTF are you smoking? They will drain your account with no justification during a 'resolution process', and you will never see your money again no matter how much evidence you provide on shipping if the buyer scams you. Did I mention that paypal also has it in their CSA that you can't file a chargeback with your credit company?

BTW, Saint just told me that he is going to start charging for posts (retroactively, I might add) for anyone with "ark" in their title. He has put me in charge of collecting. Since you obviously have no problem with excessive fees, I'll gladly accept paypal.

[ark_ader]

First off, taking it up the tail pipe w/o complaint is why this country is going down the creek without a paddle. Enough of that though...

I have no problem paying fees for services rendered...as long as they are clear up front. Paypal is WELL KNOWN for having deceptive and unclear service agreements. THIS is what I have a problem with.

Oh, and Paypal=secure? WTF are you smoking? They will drain your account with no justification during a 'resolution process', and you will never see your money again no matter how much evidence you provide on shipping if the buyer scams you. Did I mention that paypal also has it in their CSA that you can't file a chargeback with your credit company?

BTW, Saint just told me that he is going to start charging for posts (retroactively, I might add) for anyone with "ark" in their title. He has put me in charge of collecting. Since you obviously have no problem with excessive fees, I'll gladly accept paypal.

Your bank account is protected under federal law.  Paypal does not empty your accounts.  Please show me some factual proof.  Paypal is secure.  Again show me some proof to your claims. If there isn't any then retract what you have said in your posts and I will forgive you.

If you were as good as being funny as being factual then I wouldn't need to seek clarification would I? 

[Ginsu Victim]

First off, taking it up the tail pipe w/o complaint is why this country is going down the creek without a paddle. Enough of that though...

I have no problem paying fees for services rendered...as long as they are clear up front. Paypal is WELL KNOWN for having deceptive and unclear service agreements. THIS is what I have a problem with.

Oh, and Paypal=secure? WTF are you smoking? They will drain your account with no justification during a 'resolution process', and you will never see your money again no matter how much evidence you provide on shipping if the buyer scams you. Did I mention that paypal also has it in their CSA that you can't file a chargeback with your credit company?

BTW, Saint just told me that he is going to start charging for posts (retroactively, I might add) for anyone with "ark" in their title. He has put me in charge of collecting. Since you obviously have no problem with excessive fees, I'll gladly accept paypal.

Your bank account is protected under federal law.  Paypal does not empty your accounts.  Please show me some factual proof.  Paypal is secure.  Again show me some proof to your claims. If there isn't any then retract what you have said in your posts and I will forgive you.

If you were as good as being funny as being factual then I wouldn't need to seek clarification would I? 

Do you believe anyone at http://paypalsucks.com?

[ark_ader]

First off, taking it up the tail pipe w/o complaint is why this country is going down the creek without a paddle. Enough of that though...

I have no problem paying fees for services rendered...as long as they are clear up front. Paypal is WELL KNOWN for having deceptive and unclear service agreements. THIS is what I have a problem with.

Oh, and Paypal=secure? WTF are you smoking? They will drain your account with no justification during a 'resolution process', and you will never see your money again no matter how much evidence you provide on shipping if the buyer scams you. Did I mention that paypal also has it in their CSA that you can't file a chargeback with your credit company?

BTW, Saint just told me that he is going to start charging for posts (retroactively, I might add) for anyone with "ark" in their title. He has put me in charge of collecting. Since you obviously have no problem with excessive fees, I'll gladly accept paypal.

Your bank account is protected under federal law.  Paypal does not empty your accounts.  Please show me some factual proof.  Paypal is secure.  Again show me some proof to your claims. If there isn't any then retract what you have said in your posts and I will forgive you.

If you were as good as being funny as being factual then I wouldn't need to seek clarification would I? 

Do you believe anyone at http://paypalsucks.com?

Its all BS to get you all upset.  I read the site and thought it sounded like a bunch of kids getting upset.  I wouldn't call Shardian a kid, but hes right in the same ballfield as these guys.  What a bunch of  .  I hope they get sued.

So any more sensible and factual proof you guys like to point out? 

No?

Hmmm.  Thought so.   

[shardian]

Your PAYPAL accounts, dumbass.

They put holds on your accounts now after sales, just in case there is a complaint. They can freeze your account whenever they feel like it, and yes, they can empty your account (or accounts if you also have a personal account too). Oh sorry, PAYPAL accounts. Since you have no common sense, I figure I better clarify once more.


And just so you know, I used to praise paypal too...before I ever had issues with them. I had a deadbeat seller steal my money and paypal said tough luck. I also had a bad seller give me broken stuff, and after a claim paypal said 'tough luck'.

[shardian]

If anyone files a lawsuit against paypal, it will be Visa and Mastercard's lawyers. 

[RayB]

Guess what... just don't link a bank acct. Or don't confirm it. I have my bank acct linked to it for transferring money FROM PP TO the acct but not the other way around. I have never "confirmed" it.

Or how about this... Don't link any accts at all. Just withdraw funds from PP via their debit card. If you never leave thousands in there, they will never freeze thousands.


*Edit*: PinballJim beat me to it...

[SirPeale]

I am honestly shocked that there hasn't been a mass lawsuit against them for their monopolization of the "service" they provide and their "cahoots" with E-Bay.  There seems to be plenty of ground for it these days.

Probably because there are no grounds for that kind of lawsuit. They would argue that Google's service is enough to break the monopolization of PayPal.

IIRC eBay has forbidden the use of Google checkout.

[SavannahLion]

Never buy anything using Paypal unless you use a credit card (or debit card with a bank that treats you right).  If you have any problems with an item, immediately file a chargeback - don't ever bother with the Paypal dispute process, they're doing everything they can to push you past that 60 day window you have with your card.  (same deal with sellers, if they hold onto your item for more than a week or two, zap the charge)

Knock on wood, I haven't lost a significant amount of money with Paypal yet. But this is exactly what you need to do with, not just PayPal, but eBay as well. Within two days of screwing around with eBay's  up policies, I turned around and reported the problem and filed complaints with my bank and the BBB. At one point, I was talking with my bank while I was in a chat session with eBay and relaying what was being communicated to me.

At one point in the conversation (with the CEO no less), PayPal actually "ordered" me to fax a copy of my Drivers ID, bank account information and a police report. WTF?!? Yeah, I recognize when I'm being stroked thank you very much. When I listen to George Carlin's "Customer Service" routine, I can't help but think he somehow knew about PayPal.

Probably because there are no grounds for that kind of lawsuit. They would argue that Google's service is enough to break the monopolization of PayPal.

IIRC eBay has forbidden the use of Google checkout.

I have heard of that but I never got around to testing it out. That's just damn stupid.

[shardian]

IIRC eBay has forbidden the use of Google checkout.

Yes, they have. It is spelled out in their payment section.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

Also note on that page two things:
-Ebay reserves the right to force you to use paypal.
-It is POLICY that you are not allowed to encourage or discourage any payment method over another. If you have them in the payment acceptance section (even if forced), you can have your auction pulled for stating you would prefer one over the other.


The guy who bought my computer has refused to communicate with me over payment, so I am taking my time shipping the thing. It is simple courtesy to respond to a ---smurfing--- email, you know?

[HaRuMaN]

The guy who bought my computer has refused to communicate with me over payment, so I am taking my time shipping the thing. It is simple courtesy to respond to a ---smurfing--- email, you know?

Be careful with that...  Buyers can now leave sellers negative feedback and not have to worry about retaliation.   

[shardian]

Be careful with that...  Buyers can now leave sellers negative feedback and not have to worry about retaliation.   

Yeah, and I have the buyers name, home address, and paypal email. Sellers, keep that in mind...you know...for no reason. 

[ark_ader]

Your PAYPAL accounts, dumbass.

They put holds on your accounts now after sales, just in case there is a complaint. They can freeze your account whenever they feel like it, and yes, they can empty your account (or accounts if you also have a personal account too). Oh sorry, PAYPAL accounts. Since you have no common sense, I figure I better clarify once more.


And just so you know, I used to praise paypal too...before I ever had issues with them. I had a deadbeat seller steal my money and paypal said tough luck. I also had a bad seller give me broken stuff, and after a claim paypal said 'tough luck'.

Whoa hold on there fella.

Look at your original post. Ebay does not empty bank accounts.  Plain and simple.  If you sell dodgy stuff then its only right and fair that your funds get held up.  Its close to escrow as you can get without calling it escrow.  Ebay has to cover themselves. 

If you are a naughty boy, then you deserve to get the grief.

Calling anyone dumbass is clear proof that you have lost the conversation, and started in with the insults.  When you make a statement, back it up with credible proof, not some flake website.

Get a grip and leave the legal mumbo jumbo to those who are qualified.  I love paypal, and ebay.  Its the best thing since sliced bread.  If you do not like their service quit and start a garage sale.   

Jeez!

[SirPeale]

It's not the naughty ones that get the grief; it's the honest sellers.

And since eBay owns PayPal...

[protokatie]

-Ebay reserves the right to force you to use paypal.
-It is POLICY that you are not allowed to encourage or discourage any payment method over another. If you have them in the payment acceptance section (even if forced), you can have your auction pulled for stating you would prefer one over the other.

If true (I don't use either service so I don't know the policies) then that sounds like an antitrust lawsuit in the making. Esp the forcing you to use Paypal if they so choose, as it makes competition (IE with Debit and Credit companies) irrelevant.

[grantspain]

i thought paypal was an insurance company

[shardian]

Whoa hold on there fella.

Look at your original post. Ebay does not empty bank accounts.  Plain and simple.  If you sell dodgy stuff then its only right and fair that your funds get held up.  Its close to escrow as you can get without calling it escrow.  Ebay has to cover themselves. 

If you are a naughty boy, then you deserve to get the grief.

Calling anyone dumbass is clear proof that you have lost the conversation, and started in with the insults.  When you make a statement, back it up with credible proof, not some flake website.

Get a grip and leave the legal mumbo jumbo to those who are qualified.  I love paypal, and ebay.  Its the best thing since sliced bread.  If you do not like their service quit and start a garage sale.   

Jeez!

I was in the process of responding, but then realized it was a waste of time. Believe it or not, I had to go check your date of registration because I thought that you may just be an extention of Jim from the pre-ban era. Then I realized I was insulting Jim's intelligence, and had to throw that theory away.

Yes, you are officially more belligerent and annoying than pinballjim ever was. Congrats!

[ark_ader]

Whoa hold on there fella.

Look at your original post. Ebay does not empty bank accounts.  Plain and simple.  If you sell dodgy stuff then its only right and fair that your funds get held up.  Its close to escrow as you can get without calling it escrow.  Ebay has to cover themselves. 

If you are a naughty boy, then you deserve to get the grief.

Calling anyone dumbass is clear proof that you have lost the conversation, and started in with the insults.  When you make a statement, back it up with credible proof, not some flake website.

Get a grip and leave the legal mumbo jumbo to those who are qualified.  I love paypal, and ebay.  Its the best thing since sliced bread.  If you do not like their service quit and start a garage sale.   

Jeez!

I was in the process of responding, but then realized it was a waste of time. Believe it or not, I had to go check your date of registration because I thought that you may just be an extention of Jim from the pre-ban era. Then I realized I was insulting Jim's intelligence, and had to throw that theory away.

Yes, you are officially more belligerent and annoying than pinballjim ever was. Congrats!

Contratulations to you sir, as you are on my muted list. I used to really enjoy your posts but recently you have been in decline.  Bye. 

[Ginsu Victim]

Wow....you don't agree with him, so you just shut him out completely?

[shardian]

Wow....you don't agree with him, so you just shut him out completely?

I'm not complaining. I was going to ignore him anyway. I enjoy posting here, but belligerent ---uvulas--- like that who are only here to cause trouble cause me stress I don't need.

[Ginsu Victim]

Calling anyone dumbass is clear proof that you have lost the conversation,

Later....

Contratulations to you sir, as you are on my muted list

Clearly the winner of the conversation is the one who shoves his fingers in his ears and yells "LA LA LA, I'M NOT LISTENING!!!"

[shardian]

Some people just have horribly opaque rose colored glasses glued to their head, and are not in touch with reality.

It's not the first time the guy has entered a thread like a bull in a China shop. I was more than likely harboring a bit of irritation from the get-go.

[Ginsu Victim]

I hear ya. (He can't....but I can)

[protokatie]

It's not the first time the guy has entered a thread like a bull in a China shop.

Not to deride the thread, but: Mythbusters tested that one. The bulls didnt break a single plate, but actually ran eloquently around the shelves. Suprised the busters, and myself the first time I saw it.

Maybe: "Auditor's office like a tornado" would be more apt... 

[ark_ader]

Wow....you don't agree with him, so you just shut him out completely?

I'm not complaining. I was going to ignore him anyway. I enjoy posting here, but belligerent ---uvulas--- like that who are only here to cause trouble cause me stress I don't need.

Making a comment like that about Ebay which is completely then be expected to get some rough feedback.  We ALL DO NOT HAVE TO agree with you all the time.  Go take a walk in the park and chill out.  I did and I feel a lot better for it.
 

Calling anyone dumbass is clear proof that you have lost the conversation,

Later....

Contratulations to you sir, as you are on my muted list

Clearly the winner of the conversation is the one who shoves his fingers in his ears and yells "LA LA LA, I'M NOT LISTENING!!!"

I was going to mute him then realised that two wrongs do not make a right.  Besides Shardian does come out with some really good posts unlike his current offering.  I can always mute him later if he gets my goat again. 

It's not the first time the guy has entered a thread like a bull in a China shop.

Not to deride the thread, but: Mythbusters tested that one. The bulls didnt break a single plate, but actually ran eloquently around the shelves. Suprised the busters, and myself the first time I saw it.

Maybe: "Auditor's office like a tornado" would be more apt... 

Yeah sorry about that.  I should be more sympathetic. 

I love mythbusters.

Maybe I need to restart that mini cab to get me in a positive frame of mind.   

[Ginsu Victim]

I was going to mute him then realised that two wrongs do not make a right.  Besides Shardian does come out with some really good posts unlike his current offering.  I can always mute him later if he gets my goat again.

Well, thank goodness for that. If it were just some newb troll, I could see ignoring him, but Shardian contributes a lot around here (well, maybe not a LOT.....a lot of posts j/k). Imagine someone setting u_rebelscum or Peale to ignore....definitely would say WTF there.

Set chadtower to ignore and you'd cut out half the internet and free up a lot of bandwidth.

[grantspain]

ark is originally the U.K,whats the chance he is from yorkshire or lancashire

[ark_ader]

ark is originally the U.K,whats the chance he is from yorkshire or lancashire

Cheeky sod.

Yes I'm from Lancashire.

I'll be over there on the 1st of July. 

Want some hotpot sending?

No red cabbage I'm afraid.

[Ed_McCarron]

So, one thing is still up in the air.

Can paypal freeze  your BANK account, or just the .37 most people keep in their paypal accounts?