the water car, water4gas

[squirrellydw]

OK, I know the 1st website looks chessy but do you think it can work as they say?

Just want to know if you think it can work, what side affect or damage to the car it might cause etc.

www.water4gas.com

http://blogs.tampabay.com/energy/2006/10/heres_a_truly_o.html
this site has videos from FOX and CNN

[Grasshopper]

It can't work because it violates the law of conservation of energy.

[protokatie]

It can't work because it violates the law of conservation of energy.

Yeah, no kidding. Water has amongst the LOWEST energy states of any compound. If it were an element it would be in there with argon and neon as a noble element.

Althought the air powered (pneumatic) car seems like a good choice.

EDIT: Here is a quote from the second link:
"In our Amsterdam laboratory we are producing hydrogen from water. That's our ultimate goal. That would be a remarkable solution to the world's energy requirements for mobility; to produce hydrogen from water where the only waste product from the fuel cell automobile would is water vapor. It's like perpetual motion, or an indestructible energy source.

Umm... 1. You dont "produce" Hydrogen from water, you are breaking it from the oxygen atom. 2. It takes as much (plus overhead) energy to break water as you get back from the hydrogen. 3. Hydrogen power is only a storage of power as it costs as much energy to "produce" 4. It is a very poor storage medium for several reasons (EG Hydrogen leaks through the tank walls, the tanks have to be very thick and heavy to store it under pressure, etc).

[Jdurg]

Ummmmm yeah.  It's all ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- and will never work.  If you believe that you can power a car on water alone, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'm willing to sell you.  I would honestly like to know how they believe they can generate hydrogen gas from water without inputting more energy than you can get out?  I'd rather take the energy required to break down the water and use it to power the car!  I hate it when people who know absolutely nothing about basic chemistry and physics learn a tiny bit and try and come across as if they are geniuses.  Guess what.  You're not.  If it was possible don't you think it would have already been done and the company that did it would have made a bajillion dollars by now?

[Jdurg]

Wow.  I just read through all of the comments on the second link.  I can't believe the number of stupid, gullible, completely idiotic people who are falling for this scam.  Even funnier when someone bashed the "inventor", he immediately showed up and starting lashing insults right back.  When someone asked for some type of scientific proof, he never opened his mouth.  Classic fraud.  All of the "I sat in the vehicle and saw it work" junk was stated without any proof.  No submissions to scientific papers, no colleague research/verification which is what science is all about.  In science, you publish your work so that others can verify its validity, and the fact that you published it gives you patent rights if you so desire.  These scammers haven't done any of that.  lol.

[squirrellydw]

I just find it odd that both fox news and cnn covered this and they didn't say anything bad.  I did see it on TV not just the website.  I know nothing about chem so I have no clue, just found it interesting

[Jdurg]

Well, it's a story where no scientific proof is given so of course Fox News and CNN would show it.   

Basically, water IS a combustion product.  Whenever you burn a hydrocarbon (such as gasoline, methane, ethane, etc.), you get nothing but CO2 and H2O.  (We get other stuff as well when burning gas, but that's due to contaminants in gasoline).  Water is simply the product of burning hydrogen with oxygen.

Things burn because they are going from a higher energetic state to a lower energetic state.  In doing that, energy is given off.  This is why we get heat when stuff is on fire, or energy from the burning of gasoline.  The atoms in the molecules go from a high energy state to a lower energy state.

To get hydrogen out of water, you MUST put in more energy than you get out from it.  You absolutely have to.  Anyone who says otherwise is a complete lier.  So for this "hydrogen car", if they claim that they are getting hydrogen gas on demand for cheap, they are not telling the truth and are trying to scam you.

[protokatie]

To get hydrogen out of water, you MUST put in more energy than you get out from it.  You absolutely have to.  Anyone who says otherwise is a complete lier.  So for this "hydrogen car", if they claim that they are getting hydrogen gas on demand for cheap, they are not telling the truth and are trying to scam you.

Odd, I thought I already pointed this out...

But yeah, hydrogen powered cars would be great IF and ONLY IF we had a cheap renewable source of power to make the hydrogen. As I stated in my last post; hydrogen is only a way to store energy, and in fact it isnt a very usefull way to do it. (Hydrogen leaks through the walls of its container for instance).

Basically: You only reap what you sow. It really comes down to "you can only get the energy if it is there, and energy is transferable but not "free"". IE Law of conservation of energy.

[Ed_McCarron]

As I stated in my last post; hydrogen is only a way to store energy, and in fact it isnt a very usefull way to do it. (Hydrogen leaks through the walls of its container for instance).

Supposedly, advances are being made in storing the H₂ in a metal-hydride lattice; no leaks or explosions.  The downside is that you need to dump even more energy in to the system to liberate the H₂ from the hydride.

Hydrogen comes into play when you can sit a solar panel in your back yard, pump in some water, and have a full tank the next day.  Then it'll take off.

[RayB]

Why would anyone WANT cars to run on water??!  A bottle of water is way more expensive than the same amount of gas.  We're already in a delicate situation when it comes to water for general human consumption. And anyone who owns a home knows water our of the tap isn't free either (easy to think so when you live in an apartment where the general cost of water is just factored into your rent). Next thing you know they'll be using food for fuel and driving up food costs (oops, already happening).

[Ed_McCarron]

Why would anyone WANT cars to run on water??!  A bottle of water is way more expensive than the same amount of gas.

Bottle yes, bulk no.  Skip the bottle and fill your electrolysis system directly from the water main.

We're already in a delicate situation when it comes to water for general human consumption.

Not as bad as you'd think.  I work in the water industry - and every year my customers (the municipalities and private water companies) gripe that they have more water than they are allowed to sell because of the 'drought'.  Whichever drought it is that is in vogue that year.  Most water in my area is ground water from wells, not surface.  Surface producing water companies are affected by the droughts as the rivers run lower.

When water starts getting expensive, desal plants will start getting cheaper.  Our planet is 70+ percent water.  Heck, use that solar energy to boil the seawater and collect the vapor as pure water.  Then use the same solar to electrolyze the water.  Theres your (almost) free H₂.

It'll happen.

[SirPeale]

Ever since hearing about the air powered car, I had the idea of starting a dealership for them.  Putting filling stations all around the state (Vermont) and making a mint.

Apparently I can't do that yet because the cars have to go some kind of safety testing first.  Dammit.  2010 at earliest.

[Chemixtry]

This is pure b.s. just like perpetual motion machines, koniki foot pads, and ionic bracelets. As a chemist it irks me to no end to see people propagate bad science. As other people mentioned it take more energy in  then you get out. Dissociating the O-H bonds in water takes more energy then is released during the combustion of hydrogen.

[AtomSmasher]

But yeah, hydrogen powered cars would be great IF and ONLY IF we had a cheap renewable source of power to make the hydrogen.

I read an article in the Auto Club magazine 6 months ago or so about how they're working with UCLA to make a hydrogen producing station that would run entirely on wind and solar power.

*edit*
I just did some searching and found a post I made back when I first read about it.

I was just reading in Westways (the Auto Clubs magazine) and in an article on new hybrid cars they have a small blurb on Hydrogen fuel.  Apparently the Auto Club teamed up with UCLA and constructed "a hydrogen fuel production and dispensing facility utilizing 100% renewable energy (initially wind, later to be supplemented with solar)."  When used in a fuel cell vehicle, the only exhaust is water vapor, and if used in an internal combustion engine it burns cleaner then other fuel and produces no green-house gases.

[Namco]

I read an article that talked about using aluminum pellets in a tank of water. As the aluminum oxidized, it produced hydrogen, but the hydrogen pellets would need to be recycled every few hundred miles requiring as many aluminum pellet service stations as there are gasoline stations.

The problem is that these are all just articles. No action taken. I'm sure that if the best energy solution was put into practice with the same resources with which we refine and distribute oil, we'd all be able to make the switch. However in order to do that, we'd all have to stop using the oil first en masse.

[Texasmame]

I got a wind powered car:

Tolls are a ---smurfette---, tho.

 

[Blanka]

My car runs on chocolate bars, and it runs 100km to a 100gr bar.
The car is a two-wheel convertible and my wife is the engine 

[AtomSmasher]

My car runs on chocolate bars, and it runs 100km to a 100gr bar.
The car is a two-wheel convertible and my wife is the engine 

Heh, I thought you were going to say it's powered by Philip the hyper hypo

[SavannahLion]

Why bother with water? Just use DHMO. It's used in Formula One racers.

[protokatie]

Why bother with water? Just use DHMO. It's used in Formula One racers.

Yes DHMO is a very good coolant. Too bad it is corrosive, esp when NaCl is mixed with it. Too bad that DHMO is also found in almost all polluted eco-systems on Earth. Hell, you have any idea how much DHMO is in you body right now!!?


 

[Singapura]

Mixed with α-D-glucopyranosyl- (1↔2)-β-D-fructofuranoside it will eventually cause caries.

[Ed_McCarron]

Yes DHMO is a very good coolant. Too bad it is corrosive, esp when NaCl is mixed with it. Too bad that DHMO is also found in almost all polluted eco-systems on Earth. Hell, you have any idea how much DHMO is in you body right now!!?

I'm just waiting for Xaiou2 to chime in with pictures of the government DMHO conspiracy...

[Dexter]

Shame is, the tech is already out there for clean, renewable energy cars.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=17724

The Tesla 2 seater has blistering performance. The Saloon version is the next logical step.

Anyone seen that documentary 'who killed the electric car'?

[HaRuMaN]

Too bad Tesla cars are out of reach for a lot of people with pricetags over $100K...

[mpm32]

That's because it's a new technology.  Remember when calculators first came out?  Crap I'm dating myself.

But they were like $600.

Computers too.  We just need the economy of scale to kick in.

I posted this in another thread but I'll post it here too;

http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/index.html

This company is right down the street from where I work.

[Dexter]

Too bad Tesla cars are out of reach for a lot of people with pricetags over $100K...

As was the original motor car, relatively speaking. Thing is, the tech is there right now and just needs investment and government grants for buyers when the price drops. Theres big incentives to buy greener cars over here.