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Author Topic: Ebay is getting weird  (Read 1883 times)

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Ummon

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Ebay is getting weird
« on: June 07, 2008, 06:55:18 pm »
I recently got a message saying that buyers could no longer get negative feedback from sellers. I guess it gets filtered out. I thought the problem was often the other way, no?
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danny_galaga

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2008, 07:48:44 pm »

no, thats correct. buyers in all situations (whether its going to a supermarket, or buying a car from a dealer) need to know if the seller is reputable. in any other situation other than ebay, the seller just needs to see the colour of your money. the problem arises (and ive done this myself until i got enough + feedback) is that as a buyer, even if you werent satisfied with your transaction, you may not leave negetive feedback because of retribution. since quite often the seller will have magnitudes more feedback than the buyer, one negative feedback to them is a drop in the ocean compared to the negative feedback they may give back to the newbie buyer.

and analogous to the 'see the colour of their money' statement. i know when ive sold things on ebay, i haven't bothered about what the feedback of the buyer was. i don't even know how the vet a low feedback buyer, or even if you can.


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bishmasterb

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2008, 11:51:43 am »
That is a good argument danny.

However, there is another side to that coin. Anyone who has ever worked in retail knows that buyers can complain capriciously sometimes. Without a check on their complaints, some buyers take the "the customer is always right" mentality literally.
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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2008, 01:33:19 pm »
What it does is really take away the "feedback hostage" situation that a large number of scumbags use.  They'll refuse to leave feedback for you until you leave them positive.  If you leave them negative feedback (That is rightfully deserved) they'll trash you with feedback full of lies that the buyer had absolutely no way to fight back.  So by doing this, E-Bay is getting rid of feedback hostage.  Sadly, it doesn't solve everything but a lot of scumbag sellers are now SOL.
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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 02:07:18 pm »
What it does is really take away the "feedback hostage" situation that a large number of scumbags use.  They'll refuse to leave feedback for you until you leave them positive.  If you leave them negative feedback (That is rightfully deserved) they'll trash you with feedback full of lies that the buyer had absolutely no way to fight back.  So by doing this, E-Bay is getting rid of feedback hostage.  Sadly, it doesn't solve everything but a lot of scumbag sellers are now SOL.

Agreed. The practice of giving retaliatory feedback is incredibly obnoxious and some sellers were becoming very brazen about it. Also, you’ve got to bear in mind that payment is generally expected in advance before inspecting the goods so almost all of the risk is being taken by the buyer.

I think it’s a massive improvement. Ebay’s feedback system was becoming a bit of a joke. Hopefully this change will restore some credibility.
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hypernova

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 09:39:14 pm »
Sellers can't leave neutral either.  I've seen both sides of this issue, as a buyer and seller.

As I've mentioned before, much to many, if not all people's ire, I am one of the sellers who withholds feedback until it is received.  I don't sell often, however.  (123 feedback, about half buyer, half seller.)  Sometimes buyers are just incompetent morons.  I have one negative from an incompetent buyer in Sweden who gave the reasons that I made certain claims in my auction.  I did no such thing.  I said it had two new batteries opened to ensure that it worked, and provided one picture.  That's all I said, just obviously a little more wordy.  He said I made claims to have a serial number, etc.   Literally "etc" because he couldn't think of anything else.  I had no idea what was supposed to be on it.  It was a Nintendo Game n Watch handheld game.  Found it in my parents basement after maybe 15 years.  Anywho, thankfully, I hadn't left him a feedback yet.  He sure as hell didn't deserve a positive.  I'm a reasonable man.  I'll listen to any complaints.  This idiot didn't even bother emailing me after receiving the item.  He immediately left a negative feedback.  It makes me wonder if he realized his stupid mistake (I happened to look at other auctions he bought around the same time...they were all Game n Watch handhelds, so he obviously confused mine with someone else's,) and took it out on me.

Appropriately, other people left him negatives, and he eventually was no longer registered

Just because he gave me money doesn't make him a great buyer.  We can't commend people when they complain about a missing/broken piece when they were somehow completely ignorant to the large "AS IS" sign above the item.  (Just an example.)

That being said, I completely agree with the new system.  As a buyer as well, I've been in that situation, having to refrain from giving a negative because I was sure the buyer would do the same.  I bought a game.  Seller had a regular description for the item within a larger, obviously stock description he used.  In the stock description he used, he said some items he sells may have faults with them.  In the particular item description he added, he mentioned no obvious faults about the game.  I took this to mean there was nothing wrong with this particular auction, but he does sell other things that do have faults.
Well, half the case to the game was charred and screwed up.  Obviously he thought by having that clause, that he was covered.  I politely explained that I wasn't accepting the item in such a crappy state, and that a "coverall" clause didn't cut it.  If something's wrong with a particular item, he needs to state it specifically, not hide behind some ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- clause.  He had to take the time to pack it, thus he should've noticed it, so it shouldn't be a big deal to take a minute to explain any particular faults with it.

In the end, he took it back and refunded me, but it took a week of arguing with him.

I commend the new system.  If a buyer is incompetent or illiterate, I just won't give them feedback.  I think they should allow neutrals for them, but I'll take what I can get as a seller.

HUH?  Every time I relate that story, I look at my feedback and that one negative...
They removed that negative that --cream-filled twinkie-- gave me.  It had to have been in the last year.  I've written two or three emails with my reasons for them removing it over the years.  (They have to have auctions archived somewhere.  All someone had to do was look at my auction, look at the feedback he left me, and they would realize he was lying.)  Well, apparently it worked, because I couldn't find the negative, then looked, and I have 100% positive feedback again!  Whenever they did it, they didn't bother to notify me.
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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2008, 10:11:44 pm »
I think the new approach is much better.  I have an ebay account I use only for buying.  I have been practicing this system since day one, as I could care less about the seller leaving retaliatory feedback.  I pay immediately and when I get burned, honest feedback is left.  If it's blatant and the cost of "dealing with the situation" approaches the cost of the item, I don't even bother contacting the seller first.  Most dirtbag sellers will "enhance" the description or outright lie knowing that a buyer won't risk the neg.  It's not a mistake, it's a "practice" that needs to be disclosed to others considering doing business with that individual.  If you are the 1 in 20 who complains, they throw you a $5 bill to keep you quiet, knowing that they screwed the 19 others.  Of course the inflated auction prices for those other individuals paid your consolation fee 50 times over.

Ebay hasn't made things very easy on the buyers in the past, and they are feeling the repercussions.  Because of the things I stated above (and others) less people buy on ebay than they used to. This is damage control on their part, and it's a good first step.  Next, maybe they will consider getting rid of the "shill friendly" bidder ID system they implemented recently.

We can't commend people when they complain about a missing/broken piece when they were somehow completely ignorant to the large "AS IS" sign above the item.  (Just an example.)

Likewise, a seller can't use language in a listing like: "New in Box!  Perfect!"  and then expect the "AS-IS" sign to protect them when the item shows signs of use and is missing parts.  IANAL, but in a case where you are making a specific claim like that, and the buyer has no way of verifying it, I'd be surprised if the legal protections of an "AS IS" sale apply.  Just like you can't sell an XBOX 360 described as working "AS IS", and then send someone a case with no guts in it.  Both are obvious misrepresentations.

RandyT
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 05:02:47 am by RandyT »

danny_galaga

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 12:16:56 am »

Ebay hasn't made things very easy on the buyers in the past, and they are feeling the repercussions.  Because of the things I stated above (and others) less people buy on ebay than they used to. This is damage control on their part, and it's a good first step.  Next, maybe they will considering getting rid of the "shill friendly" bidder ID system they implemented recently.

RandyT

you mean like this?

   danny_galaga( 132Feedback score is 100 to 499)       GBP 4.20    
13-May-08 21:58:10 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 4.00    
14-May-08 06:13:19 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 3.60    
14-May-08 06:13:05 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 3.20    
14-May-08 06:12:50 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 2.80    
14-May-08 06:12:37 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 2.40    
14-May-08 06:12:25 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 2.00    
14-May-08 06:12:14 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 1.50    
14-May-08 06:12:04 AEST
   
   Bidder 2Feedback score is 10 to 49       GBP 1.10    
14-May-08 06:11:54 AEST
   
   Starting Price   GBP 0.99    
07-May-08 06:24:05 AEST

i hear you on that. thats why i snipe as much as possible. this particular example ended in the wee small hours of the morning for me so i had to leave a bid and go beddy byes. whats the bet if i had set my alarm clock, i would have gotten it for 99 pence?


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Ummon

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 12:52:39 am »
I approach it much like Randy. I give whatever appropriate and I get whatever. If I don't get a feedback, I ask. Usually they've just forgotten or something. I have less than 50 transactions in five years so the odds are sorta on my side there. In any case, the immediate thing that occured to me was sellers could just neglect to give feedback. That could douse the whole system.
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Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

FrizzleFried

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 01:21:39 pm »
As an ex-seller on Ebay I won't use the service to sell anymore....

...and LOTS of folks are taking my approach.  Just do a search.  The search for JAMMA in my 200 mile radius would bring up a couple pages in the past...now?  17 entries as of last night.

Ebay is kicking itself in the nuts....and that is coming from a 100% positive feedback customer.   

Buyers are just as unreasonable sometimes as sellers can be ... and the sellers are the ones PAYING Ebay and Paypal...

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 01:28:39 pm »
I debated with myself at length on whether I agreed with the new system of sellers not being able to leave negative/neutral feedback. Randy finally put my mind at rest.

Early on in my eBay buying "career" I've withheld negative feedback because of that bastard feedback hostage situation. It still burns me that I paid a premium for a "mint" SEGA CD game only to find it plastered with that crap Blockbuster security sticker. I would have never bid on the item if he didn't use a "stock" photo or included it in the description. I spent weeks arguing with the seller but that ---uvula--- held that :censored: feedback over my head.

I still think eBay sucks royal ass though. To this day, eBay absolutely refuses to remove my checking account information on an old account my Ex owns. Despite the obvious fact that my name is on the  :censored: checking account eBay still claims the account is not mine. WTF?! I've escalated to a report with the BBB and the  :censored: of a CEO upped the anti by forcing the requirement of a police report (which was never a mentioned requirement in any of my communications with eBay). So I upped the anti again by reporting a second time with the BBB, then filed fraud complaints with my bank, and blocking eBay activities with any of my monetary accounts.

I swear, it's actually easier to change utilities information, back date them, back charge them, and move the account to someone else name for a house I don't even own than it is to do something as simple as removing my monetary account information from an eBay account I no longer have access to. Jebus.  :angry: AT&T has account management down pat, eBay still needs to get out of the 19th century.

I have bought on eBay again, but I'll never bother selling again. The fees are getting to be outrageous. Verification requirements are too crazy. And monetary account management and protection is pathetic.

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Re: Ebay is getting weird
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 06:27:13 pm »
I think it's one of those situations where if you had mediators review all the negatives, then both parties should be allowed to leave them.  Obviously that's too much effort and the Safe Harbor stuff and all that is a joke.

Ever since eBay and PayPal became one and the same, I have serious doubts as to the ability of any staff at eBay to reliably and accurately mediate anything at all anyways.