cpwizard: editing label doesn't seem to work

[TheShanMan]

If I bring up the object properties dialog and click on the label tab, it switches, but then immediately switches back to the image tab all by itself. This is 1.68, and I've tried it on my cab and on my desktop. I'm new to cpwizard. What am I doing wrong?

[headkaze]

Object properties are only for displaying the properties of objects already created. When you click on an object the Object properties window will show the properties for that object. If you want to create a new label then click the "Add Label" button or right click on the background and select "Add Label" from the context menu. You can also select it from the "Object->Add Label" menu strip. Once you create a label or image you can select it and copy/paste it. You can also draw a rectangle around several objects and copy/paste them.

[TheShanMan]

I see now that objects don't inherently have labels and that's why it auto-changes the tab. As a new user, this was confusing. The properties dialog should only show the tab that is appropriate for the selected "thing", because as it is now, a new user thinks "oh, let me edit the properties on the label tab", and when it does that funky thing with auto-changing back to the object tab, you think there's a bug or something.

That's a minor nit though - I have to say this program is super cool.

How do I get my pause and escape buttons to show the right label and not be faded when I do the preview? Same goes for the 1up/2up/3up/4up buttons? I have them linked properly (esc, p, 1, 2, 3, 4) but they're all grayed out with no label.

[headkaze]

I don't see how it's confusing. If you click on properties when an object is selected it shows the property page of the selected object depending on what it is. It will switch the tab depending on if it is a label or image. The reason it works this way is so you can have the property window open at all times and can click on any object and it will show the properties of it rather than having a new Window pop up which I thought would be annoying.

Glad you like the program I can understand it can be a bit confusing first time around as there is no documentation on how to use the editor but a little trial and error and you should pick it up in no time. Also I am always open to suggestions on how to improve it.

If you don't want buttons alpha faded out then either (A) don't assign an input code to them (afterall there are no labels to swap out for ESC, P1, P2, P3, P4 etc. in Controls.Dat anyway so no need), or (B) you can turn off alpha fading alltogether by going into Options->Display->Alpha Fade and disabling it. Alternatively you could change the label type to "Custom Text" and just call them "Escape", "P1 Start", "P2 Start" etc.

[TheShanMan]

You're missing my point. The part that is confusing is if you show properties on an image and click on the label tab, the label tab activates for a fraction of a second and then the program switches back to the image tab. I agree that you don't want a new window popping up when you switch from an image to a label, but it wouldn't need to. All I'm suggesting is when an image is selected, hide the label tab, and vice-versa. That way it doesn't imply that there's some functionality available that the user can't seem to access. Now that I know how the program works, it's not a big deal for me, but it really would make it easier for noobs. Just a usability issue. OK, on to a few questions...

Thanks for the tip on making the other buttons not dim. So is there no way to have P3/P4 buttons fade for games that only support 2 players? Seems like it should be possible, so please consider it a feature request.

The mame keyword feature is exactly what I need with my swappable panels - awesome! However, I'm wondering how far I can take this idea to implement my rules for which panel to pick. For instance, all 1 player joystick games (if there are any) or alternating player joystick games would get my single 4/8 way joystick panel. Any game that uses 2 joysticks would get my dual joystick panel. If it's tron it would get my upcoming tron panel. So those would be my rules for any 2, 4, or 8 way game. Not as simple as what your built in list provides, but with other game information could be figured out (like adding "alternating" or "1P" to the built in keywords). Is this possible? If so, a little discussion of what information it looks at and how to specify such keywords would be helpful.

I don't suppose there are more control graphics available somewhere, are there? I like T3JoystickBalltopRed2, but mine has a black balltop (my single 4/8 way panel). Black bat joysticks would be great too (my dual 8 way panel).

Is there a way to have "p" hide the panel and resume the game? Ideally, I'd like to have pause immediately show the panel rather than go into the menu (which I can do of course) and then have pause resume the game without having to exit the panel first. And actually, it would be great to have the panel immediately show, but be able to escape back to the cpwizard menu. In other words, kind of a middle ground between "show cp only" and showing the menu.

[headkaze]

You're missing my point. The part that is confusing is if you show properties on an image and click on the label tab, the label tab activates for a fraction of a second and then the program switches back to the image tab. I agree that you don't want a new window popping up when you switch from an image to a label, but it wouldn't need to. All I'm suggesting is when an image is selected, hide the label tab, and vice-versa. That way it doesn't imply that there's some functionality available that the user can't seem to access. Now that I know how the program works, it's not a big deal for me, but it really would make it easier for noobs. Just a usability issue. OK, on to a few questions...

Ahhh I see, it's a good idea. I'll look into that. Perhaps if I disable the tab instead of switching back.

Thanks for the tip on making the other buttons not dim. So is there no way to have P3/P4 buttons fade for games that only support 2 players? Seems like it should be possible, so please consider it a feature request.

Currently this is not possible because it only dims objects based on input code.

The mame keyword feature is exactly what I need with my swappable panels - awesome! However, I'm wondering how far I can take this idea to implement my rules for which panel to pick. For instance, all 1 player joystick games (if there are any) or alternating player joystick games would get my single 4/8 way joystick panel. Any game that uses 2 joysticks would get my dual joystick panel. If it's tron it would get my upcoming tron panel. So those would be my rules for any 2, 4, or 8 way game. Not as simple as what your built in list provides, but with other game information could be figured out (like adding "alternating" or "1P" to the built in keywords). Is this possible? If so, a little discussion of what information it looks at and how to specify such keywords would be helpful.

Currently keywords only work with control's, but I can possibly add Alternating and NumPlayers in a future release.

I don't suppose there are more control graphics available somewhere, are there? I like T3JoystickBalltopRed2, but mine has a black balltop (my single 4/8 way panel). Black bat joysticks would be great too (my dual 8 way panel).

Attached are the balltop's in black I just used "replace color" in Photoshop to change to black. I thought there was already a black version of the bat style joysticks.

Is there a way to have "p" hide the panel and resume the game? Ideally, I'd like to have pause immediately show the panel rather than go into the menu (which I can do of course) and then have pause resume the game without having to exit the panel first. And actually, it would be great to have the panel immediately show, but be able to escape back to the cpwizard menu. In other words, kind of a middle ground between "show cp only" and showing the menu.

Currently there is no way to do this. This is because Mame's output system is one way communication, so I can only detect pause I can't tell Mame to pause/unpause. And since Mame 107 and it's inclusion of the in Raw Input System you can't send keys to Mame. Earlier versions of Mame can be unpaused by CPWizard. I do have some code that can get around it but I consider it a hack. When I get some time I might do some tests and see if it worth including.

Thanks for your comments

[TheShanMan]

That black ball top looks great. Thanks! As for the black bat top, I don't see any bat tops, unless you mean ones like T2JoystickBlack? I don't like the top perspective on that - it doesn't look like a joystick to me (just a circle inside a bigger circle). It's not a big issue though. I think I'll be OK without it.

Currently keywords only work with control's, but I can possibly add Alternating and NumPlayers in a future release.

Any hints on how likely and/or how soon? If it's likely to be a while I may just write my own mame output system app as a middle man to handle the logic of which panel to choose, and then call cpwizard. But I don't want to waste my time if you're going to have it in 2 weeks or something.

Currently this is not possible because it only dims objects based on input code.

Easily solved - I just hook them up to my P1-P4 input codes. Seriously though - if I were to write a middle man mame output system app it would be cool if I could tell cpwizard to dim somehow. I suppose I could make variants of my layouts that have some of the start buttons dimmed, but that seems kind of "last resort-ish" to me. Any chance the command line could be enhanced to pass extra input codes to enable? I could certainly do it that way using the middle man app.

This is because Mame's output system is one way communication, so I can only detect pause I can't tell Mame to pause/unpause.

I was afraid this would be the answer. I haven't looked at the source in years, but I would guess it would be possible to make a diff to allow cpwizard to hook in for un-pausing, wouldn't it? I could look into that if you don't want to.

I guess it doesn't matter unless you or I come up with a solution for un-pausing, but thoughts on my "middle ground between "show cp only" and showing the menu" idea?

BTW, I've heard of cpwizard for a while now but didn't quite understand what it did. Now that I understand it I realize it's kind of a "must have".

[TheShanMan]

One other thing. I've been using the arrow keys to move objects that I don't want to be right where the grid wants to put it, but "down" and "right" both make the window scroll, which is quite annoying. The object does move too, but then I have to scroll the window back once the object is right where I want it.

[headkaze]

Yup the scroll bars stealing focus is annoying, I noticed that too. I have found a solution for it so will be looking into it for next release.

As to when I will get around to it, I can't say for sure. I have alot of projects going on at the moment but there is definatly a chance for me to get back to CPWizard soon for the next update. Sorry I can't give you a definate time frame right now but consider it on the cards.

[TheShanMan]

Thanks headkaze. Did you see my prior post though? I made 2 posts in a row and it would seem that you either didn't notice the first one and only responded to the 2nd, or if your commenting on "when" was in reply to the 1st, then I'd still like to know your thoughts on the last part of the 1st (unpausing and the show cp only variant idea).

[headkaze]

I've updated CPWizard to 1.7 which includes all your requests except for the pausing Mame one. I did write a component to inject keys into Mame but it didn't make it into this release.

Keywords are gone in favour of "Layout Maps" which allows more rules for loading layouts. I think it should cover your needs there quite well.

Also I added "Player Codes" which you can use to fade out your start and coin buttons.

Let me know how it goes for you

[TheShanMan]

Sweet! I can't wait to try it. I'll have to look at the mame source and come up with a diff that will allow external pause/unpause. Perhaps by listening for a special windows message. If I come up with a method like that would you be willing to add support for it?

[TheShanMan]

I love the new features . A few issues though, in addition to my question above:

• I assume for layout maps a match is chosen from top to bottom, so if there are multiple matches then the first one wins. So the logical request then would be for move up/down buttons for re-ordering them.
• You said you incorporated all my suggestions except unpause, but I couldn't figure out how to get the control panel to display on pause while still allowing you to exit back to the cpwizard menu. Am I just not doing it right or did that one not get implemented?
• Would be cool if the preview list would remember which rom was last selected.

[headkaze]

1 -- I would like to have to look at the mame source and come up with a diff that will allow external pause/unpause. Perhaps by listening for a special windows message. If I come up with a method like that would you be willing to add support for it?

Like I said I've already written code to send keys to any version of Mame. There are just a few things to work out since it has to work with both 32 and 64 bit versions of Mame I need to work out how I'm going to deal with it since CPWizard is currently 32-bit only.

2 -- I assume for layout maps a match is chosen from top to bottom, so if there are multiple matches then the first one wins. So the logical request then would be for move up/down buttons for re-ordering them.

Added in 1.71

3 --  You said you incorporated all my suggestions except unpause, but I couldn't figure out how to get the control panel to display on pause while still allowing you to exit back to the cpwizard menu. Am I just not doing it right or did that one not get implemented? I think it would be a nice feature as normally all I would be interested in is the cp, but every once in a while it would be nice to see some of the other pages provided by cpwizard.

Yep I thought you meant from the command line so I added an -exitmenu option. But now I've added an option under the Data options tab called "Exit to menu". Give that a try.

4 --  Would be cool if the preview list would remember which rom was last selected. Or better yet, make it modeless! When checking to see if it works as expected for a certain game, it sometimes takes a few iterations of changes, and finding the game in a list of 7000 is kind of a pain.

Added in 1.71

5 -- I couldn't figure out how to set up the layout maps to select a special panel for tron. The "constant" column doesn't allow typing and the list is apparently not all-inclusive. And the "control" column does allow typing but the typing doesn't seem to take. Neither list has what the preview game list shows for tron.

Constants are constants so they arn't editable. The Control column should allow you to type in any word contained in the dropdown list. So for example "Mahjong" will match the control called "Mahjong Control Panel".

For tron you need to use "Layout Overrides".

6 -- On that note, I wonder if it might be nice to allow per-game overrides somehow. I haven't gotten far enough to tell for sure (assuming the "tron" issue gets solved), but I'm guessing that using the layout maps won't pick the right layout 100% of the time. If there was a way to say "if it's tron, use the tron panel" then exceptions can be handled. A UI for it would be nice, but even if it's manually editing a text file it would be great.

This is what "Layout Overrides" are for. You select a folder in the Layouts folder (by default it's "Mame") and save any per-game layouts in there by matching their ROM name. So save your layout for Tron as Layouts\Mame\tron.xml.

[TheShanMan]

1 -- I would like to have to look at the mame source and come up with a diff that will allow external pause/unpause. Perhaps by listening for a special windows message. If I come up with a method like that would you be willing to add support for it?

Like I said I've already written code to send keys to any version of Mame. There are just a few things to work out since it has to work with both 32 and 64 bit versions of Mame I need to work out how I'm going to deal with it since CPWizard is currently 32-bit only.

OK, I get ya now. I got the impression you were saying "one day in the distant future I might get it in" and I was figuring I could look into a source patch to make it easier, but if it's already being worked on and you don't need any of my help, then I'll wait and try to remain patient.

5 -- I couldn't figure out how to set up the layout maps to select a special panel for tron. The "constant" column doesn't allow typing and the list is apparently not all-inclusive. And the "control" column does allow typing but the typing doesn't seem to take. Neither list has what the preview game list shows for tron.

Constants are constants so they arn't editable. The Control column should allow you to type in any word contained in the dropdown list. So for example "Mahjong" will match the control called "Mahjong Control Panel".

For tron you need to use "Layout Overrides".

I'll have to try the control column again. When I did it before I'm almost certain I typed in exactly what I saw in the corresponding field in the preview list for tron, yet it didn't seem to work. Then when I went back and clicked on the control field, it deleted the text I had typed, so I figured it really doesn't like anything that's not in the dropdown list. Great to hear about the overrides feature - I don't know how I missed it.

And for everything you did in 1.71 - sweet!

[headkaze]

 

I'll have to try the control column again. When I did it before I'm almost certain I typed in exactly what I saw in the corresponding field in the preview list for tron, yet it didn't seem to work. Then when I went back and clicked on the control field, it deleted the text I had typed, so I figured it really doesn't like anything that's not in the dropdown list. Great to hear about the overrides feature - I don't know how I missed it.

And for everything you did in 1.71 - sweet!

Ahh yeah I get what your saying about the Control clearing the entry if you click on it, yep that is another minor bug. I've just fixed it and uploaded again although didn't bother giving it a new version number.

Also I just wanted you to note you will notice in 1.71 there are alot of extra "Constants" in the Preview list that weren't in 1.7. That was the major bug I mentioned in the release notes. What it does now and what it was supposed to do in the previous version was use Mame's built in constants if an entry for the game doesn't exist in ControlsDat. This is because ControlsDat hasn't been updated since Mame 111 so I thought I would add those in so more correct controls can be selected using Layout Maps.

Let me know how you go anyway, and don't feel awkward about feature requests or reporting bugs because I appreciate the feedback. I especially like to fix any bugs found