job interview

[myntik1]

So I had an interview a few days ago for a company that notoriously steals talent away from my current company.  I would go from a 5 minute commute each way to a 30 minute commute, but I would probably make 9-12K more per year for doing the exact same job.  I ace the phone interview.  They call me back the next day for a face to face.  I go in and I’m hitting on all cylinders.  This isn’t over the top embellishment, but simply putting it out there – I’m the man for the job and I’m a work horse not a show pony.  I had separate interviews with the hiring manager, one of the senior members of the QA team and an Assistant Vice President.  In two of the meetings they kept asking why am I so eager to leave my current job.  I look them in the eyes and I say that I’m in no hurry to leave and that this is the first job I’ve applied to since I got my current position 2 years ago.  I explain that I’m in a good spot, and while we all think the grass is greener on the other side if I leave my current co. it’s probably my last company move.  At 35, my next move will take me the next 25 years or so into retirement.  I leave pretty confident, but I keep wondering why they questioned my eagerness to leave my current job.

Today I’m talking to my buddy who works there and I ask how many people he showed my resume to.  He says about 4 or 5, but he submitted my name for about 10 jobs.  Every couple of days I would get an email from him and I just assumed he was forwarding me on a job post, I didn’t know he was submitting my resume each time.

So I leave feeling good about getting an offer and weighing my options.  Now I feel like the rejection letter is sitting in my mailbox.  The whole time the hiring manager and the AVP were probably saying we have a record of you applying for everything under the sun and now you claim this is the only job you’ve tried to get in the last 2 years.  Now I feel like an idiot and there’s no way I can correct the situation.

[ChadTower]

Your friend acted poorly in submitting your resume to any given opening without your expressed approval.  You should be approving every single submission.  I have had that problem in the past with professional headhunters - some guys will just go ahead and submit your resume all over the place without you knowing it, hoping something bites.  Meanwhile you're working with someone else, who is doing it right, and you end up double submitted.  Since the headhunter gets a commission, and now the company will have to deal with a dispute over who it goes to, they just toss your resume into the garbage instead.

[saint]

Have your friend explain to the folks who interviewed you?

So I had an interview a few days ago for a company that notoriously steals talent away from my current company.  I would go from a 5 minute commute each way to a 30 minute commute, but I would probably make 9-12K more per year for doing the exact same job.  I ace the phone interview.  They call me back the next day for a face to face.  I go in and I’m hitting on all cylinders.  This isn’t over the top embellishment, but simply putting it out there – I’m the man for the job and I’m a work horse not a show pony.  I had separate interviews with the hiring manager, one of the senior members of the QA team and an Assistant Vice President.  In two of the meetings they kept asking why am I so eager to leave my current job.  I look them in the eyes and I say that I’m in no hurry to leave and that this is the first job I’ve applied to since I got my current position 2 years ago.  I explain that I’m in a good spot, and while we all think the grass is greener on the other side if I leave my current co. it’s probably my last company move.  At 35, my next move will take me the next 25 years or so into retirement.  I leave pretty confident, but I keep wondering why they questioned my eagerness to leave my current job.

Today I’m talking to my buddy who works there and I ask how many people he showed my resume to.  He says about 4 or 5, but he submitted my name for about 10 jobs.  Every couple of days I would get an email from him and I just assumed he was forwarding me on a job post, I didn’t know he was submitting my resume each time.

So I leave feeling good about getting an offer and weighing my options.  Now I feel like the rejection letter is sitting in my mailbox.  The whole time the hiring manager and the AVP were probably saying we have a record of you applying for everything under the sun and now you claim this is the only job you’ve tried to get in the last 2 years.  Now I feel like an idiot and there’s no way I can correct the situation.

[Samstag]

Now I feel like an idiot and there’s no way I can correct the situation.

Uh, call them?  You're willing to be their workhorse but you can't pick up the phone and give them a quick explanation?

I hope this is a job that doesn't require problem solving skills!   

[SithMaster]

It might be awkward if they didnt notice multiple resumes but i would give a call just in case.  Just say if you receive multiple copies of my resume that it was a mistake.  Of course they might throw out all copies be accident.

[paigeoliver]

I hate to burst your bubble, but in real world dollars (after expenses), that job is a pay cut. The real world cost of the extra daily mileage eats the entire after-tax pay raise. Which means you have a day that is 50 minutes longer, for the exact same money.

Do note, you have to figure more than the cost of GAS when doing these calculations.

[SithMaster]

I hate to burst your bubble, but in real world dollars (after expenses), that job is a pay cut. The real world cost of the extra daily mileage eats the entire after-tax pay raise. Which means you have a day that is 50 minutes longer, for the exact same money.

Do note, you have to figure more than the cost of GAS when doing these calculations.

Maybe.  He didnt specify how he commutes (though his costs most likely do go up).  He should crunch the numbers though as 9-12k seems to high (though i might be overly pessimistic).

[paigeoliver]

I was assuming a car of some sort, something middle of the road. The real cost of long commutes often sneaks up on people, as it takes a while for you to realize how fast you are eating up cars. It will get you in the long run though.

I hate to burst your bubble, but in real world dollars (after expenses), that job is a pay cut. The real world cost of the extra daily mileage eats the entire after-tax pay raise. Which means you have a day that is 50 minutes longer, for the exact same money.

Do note, you have to figure more than the cost of GAS when doing these calculations.

Maybe.  He didnt specify how he commutes (though his costs most likely do go up).  He should crunch the numbers though as 9-12k seems to high (though i might be overly pessimistic).

[shmokes]

Eff that.  The real cost is time.  And I'm not talking monetary costs (though, as they say, time is money).  I'm talking about the mind-numbing, soul-crushing horror that is a daily commute.  Five minutes to work and five minutes home is an incredible luxury.  Ask anybody who has a 30+ minute commute, "How much would you pay me per year to shorten your commute to five minutes per day?"  I guarantee that the figure they give you will be quite high, and it will not simply reflect the per diem costs of driving a car.

I'm not saying that there's no point at which the increased salary won't justify the 30 minute commute, but don't undervalue that five minute jaunt you take to work.  That's a gold mine, and it is exactly what people mean when they say that money can't buy happiness. 

[protokatie]

Five minutes to work and five minutes home is an incredible luxury.

I walk to work, and that is how long it takes. I even got rid of my truck as I dont need it for travel. If I could, I would buy a farm and live off of it, that way my life was also my job. (Tell me without lying; you would give up your current life to be self sufficient on a simple farm. I would..)

[shardian]

I would take  pay cut for a 5 minute commute. Mine is 30 minutes on a good day, 45 on a heavy traffic day, with maybe a minor accident. Every other month or so, there is a big accident and it may take 1.5 hours to get home.

[paigeoliver]

Right, people often mistakenly think that the extra time is worth it for the extra money, when in reality they are spending the extra money the commute itself and thus are just throwing part of their life away for nothing.

My drive to work is only 10 minutes, I would love to get that down further, but it isn't very likely.

Eff that.  The real cost is time.  And I'm not talking monetary costs (though, as they say, time is money).  I'm talking about the mind-numbing, soul-crushing horror that is a daily commute.  Five minutes to work and five minutes home is an incredible luxury.  Ask anybody who has a 30+ minute commute, "How much would you pay me per year to shorten your commute to five minutes per day?"  I guarantee that the figure they give you will be quite high, and it will not simply reflect the per diem costs of driving a car.

I'm not saying that there's no point at which the increased salary won't justify the 30 minute commute, but don't undervalue that five minute jaunt you take to work.  That's a gold mine, and it is exactly what people mean when they say that money can't buy happiness. 

[ChadTower]

I took a 5 figure pay cut to shorten my commute from 60 hard highway minutes each way to 20 simple backroad minutes.  Worth every freakin penny even if you completely discount the monetary cost reduction.  Now I get to wait at the bus stop with my kids every morning - I'm home at 5:15 and don't have to spend a half hour settling down from the difficult evening commute.  That's an hour and a half more at night with my family five times a week.

The town wants to build a new office park on the site of the abandoned concrete plant staging area by my house.  Many acres of completely cleared land there for it, too, if my area can handle the traffic.  Depending on what moves in, if I could get a job there, I'd be almost able to span my commute by throwing rocks.

[saint]

Five minutes to work and five minutes home is an incredible luxury.  Ask anybody who has a 30+ minute commute, "How much would you pay me per year to shorten your commute to five minutes per day?"  I guarantee that the figure they give you will be quite high, and it will not simply reflect the per diem costs of driving a car.

I can exactly answer this. I traded a daily 3 hour commute (1.5 hours each way) for an 8 minute commute at a cost of $12,000 the first year and $7000 each year thereafter until I could get a raise. Probably cost me $20,000 to make the move at least. I did it with a smile on my face and so fast I'd have left skid marks if you got in my way.

[myntik1]

update - I called the hiring manager this morning.  She wasn't at her desk, but I left a voicemail.  I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.  Anyway I thanked her for taking the time to meet with me, and said that I asked my friend about who he had shown my resume to.  And I let her know that he attempted to help me by submitting my resume without my knowledge.  I then said that the position I applied for is the only one I was interested in at their company.

As for my commute/pay.  Eventually I'm going to wind up back at this company or in my former role as a Special Ed teacher.  My company is famous for dangling the carrot.  So many associates have to leave for a year or two and then make their way back.  It's a revolving door.  People leave and come back and make significantly more.  The mid-level salary for this new position is 8500 more than I make now.  So considering I bring QA, project management and teaching experience to the table my goal was to get a bump in the 9-12K range.  At the lower end I weigh my options.  If it's at the top end or higher I jump at it. And 8500 is more than my last few raises combined.  My company likes to give the one and done bonuses.  I've been fortunate and have received a good number of spot bonuses and my yearly bonuses are pretty good, but I need more cash every other Thursday.  I may be the rare person but I actually like listening to music in my car and unwinding.  I used to have a 45 minute commute and it didn't bother me.  Gas is a separate issue. I drive a gas hog so I would take the significant others car (we're looking for a new car for her anyway) or buy a throw-away beater.

[Nailz]

I hate to burst your bubble here, but maybe they simply didn't want you for the job....  I have had interviews at places where I was doing the EXACT same thing as well, knocked the interview out of the park, and ended up not getting the job, it happens.  I have also walked out of interviews thinking, "wow, I am an idiot, there is no way in hell I get this job", and end up getting an offer letter.

Your buddy didn't do you any favors by mass mailing your resume, but maybe they just saw it as a non-fit in some other way, it happens a lot.  Hopefully the hiring manager will call you back and give you a reason, but I wouldn't get my hopes up, most of the time those folks are buried under a sea of interview candidates.

The nice thing is, you have a job and don't need this one.  I took a new job about 8 months ago for about 25K more a year and I absolutely hate it and I am looking again, even if it means taking a pay cut.  Money is great, but it definitely isn't everything.

[Cakemeister]

I agree with Paige. Your 5-minute commute is worth far more than the extra money.

[Dartful Dodger]

I also vote for the 5 minute commute.

About a year ago I complained on this board about developing a carpals type pain in my arm. I've been working at a desk for 10 years it didn't make sense. 

It turns out I bought a new car two months before which had its arm rest in an awkward position.  The 45 minute drive back and forth was the cause of my pain.

[ark_ader]

I had the same 1.5 hour commute.

If you can get a job closer do it immediately.

You will enjoy life better 

[myntik1]

Well I guess I satisfied the Gods enough to get past phase I.  I got an email from them this morning. They wanted my professional references and I had to electronically sign a form allowing them to do a background search on me.


unrelated long-winded message

On a side note.  I quit my very lucrative bartending job a few weeks ago because the owner got into debt and started making shady decisions.  My 20 and 30 dollar paychecks started bouncing (we only get $4/hr), he asked us to start cutting booze with cheap liquor and the coup de grace was when  he hired back a bartender that was stealing tips.  This guy had a huge following and the owner wanted him to bring back his regular customers.  In the owner's eyes he was stealing from us and not the bar so this is something we needed to work out with the guy.  Anyway I brought this up becuase they just built a semi popular wings/sports bar franchise about 1/4 mile away from the new job and they posted an ad looking for a bartender today.  I'm debating on whether or not to go apply.  I was going to wait until the end of the summer to find another bartending gig, but good gigs are hard to come by.  I hate having 2 jobs, but it's nice to be able to pay for almost everything in cash.

[ChadTower]

I have always wondered - do bartenders really declare all of their tips and pay tax on them?

[myntik1]

that would be a no.  But one of the places I worked at got audited.  So my name appears on some  department of revenue list.  Evey year or two I get a letter stating that they think I under-reported my income in year xx.  I can either pay a fine or I can fight it.  If I fight it and lose then I owe interest, penalties and fees from the original date.  I paid one last month for 250.  It sucks, but you have to take the good with the bad.  Fortunately my day job provides me with money on paper.

[Wade]

I agree with the short commute thing entirely.  When buying our house, my wife and I were tempted to buy further from town because we get get more house for less money.  Every time we tried to look at a house outside of town, we got stuck in traffic.  We made the smart choice and spent more in a nice, established neighborhood with great schools, and I have a 5 minute commute to work, most on curvey roads and only a couple of lights at the end.  I go home for lunch and see my wife and daughter fairly often.  Sometimes they come to my work and we have lunch, go for a walk in the park, etc.

I know a lot of people who keep moving further outside of town, and in the direction of all the traffic.  The extra cost of the vehicles, trouble, and time is simply not worth it - it's false economy.

Don't even get me started on the working moms when the husband already makes a comfortable income and the wife makes significantly less.  There's a similar false economy there, when her income is used to get unneeded things - a fancier house, fancy new cars loaded with options and gulping fuel, day care, private schools.

Wade

[shmokes]

Yeah . . . and someone mentioned it, but there's a difference between cruising along at 70 MPH and stop-and-go traffic.  I love driving.  At my last job I commuted at least 12-hours per week.  We had multiple offices spread out over five counties and I ran the networks in all of them.  LOVED.  IT.

I live in Miami now.  I want to smash my head through the window if I have to spend fifteen minutes on the road in rush hour.

[Wade]

Yeah.  If I've learned anything about interviewing, it's that you can't judge whether you'll get an offer or how good of an offer it will be, by how you felt the interview went.  I've had great offers when I felt I flunked the interview, and horrible (or no) offers when I felt I "hit it out of the park."

Wade

[myntik1]

I've never had a problem getting offers.  In the past I've tried to avoid other insurance companies.  For most of the offers I've had the pay has been more, but the benefits have sucked.  Right now I get 22 paid vacation days, a job I really wanted 3 yrs ago, offered my a lot more cash, but I would have gone done to 5 vacation days.  I don't feel that I'm jumping the gun here,  having 3 interviews in the same day was encouraging, but I'm not giddy like a school expecting the sun and the moon.  But everytime a company has gone through the trouble of checking my references I've gotten an offer.   

[myntik1]

Moment of truth - they called with their initial offer which is 6500 more than I currently make.  I calmly counter-offered and explained that I was taking into consideration gas, time, etc.  I asked for a few grand more if they meet me in the middle I may be moving along.  If not I'll still be a full-time sucker for part-time pay at my current job.

[myntik1]

They came back with an acceptable offer.  It's a little over 8K more than I make. I know a few people will continue to argue that the commute won't be worth the few pennies more.  But after sitting down with a six of IPA I started thinking about the nonseense that goes on in my department.  From the backstabbing, credit/idea stealing, blatant sucking up (1 co-worker gave my boss a Coach diaper bag when she announced she was preggers), the disparity in income because I went to a state school and someone else went to Brand X school.  I figured the peace of mind meant more than the cash.

Yesterday in a meeting pretty muched sealed the deal.  One of my co-workers blatantly said that 1 audit she was doing had her bogged down so she fell behind.  It's the same audit I developed and worked on.  It's not a hard audit but it's detail oriented and time consuming.  Out of the 90 cases processed she did 19 while I did 71.  It's because she is too busy gossiping to get her work done.  If I hadn't finished one of my audits or reports on time it would be my head.  But because it's her favorite all is well, and I get the "Quin  can you help her pull this one together."

So anyway, it was priceless to be able to walk into my boss' office this morning and calmly state "It's time for me and (insert company name here) to start seeing other people".  After her jaw dropped and she got over the initial reaction I calmly explained that I needed a change of scenery and a fresh start.  I think she may try to offer me more loot to stay, but I doubt it.

[Dartful Dodger]

Congrats!!!

They'll be hurting after you leave.

If this new job doesn't work out you can look somewhere else for another 8 grand pay jump.

[SithMaster]

Its going to be awkward if the old company starts calling you for help.  Congrats on the new job.  Hopefully they are the type of company to celebrate everything (ie lots of cake).

[myntik1]

this new company is kind of strange. my new boss called me to offer me the job and we neg. salary.  While I did want to push a bit harder I didn't want to come off as a money grubbing whore to the person I'm going to report to.  And to think 14 yrs ago I stopped tending bar full-time to go back to school.  10 yrs ago I took a job as a Spec Ed teacher at an alternative school for 24K.

[ChadTower]

Its going to be awkward if the old company starts calling you for help. 

Why?  Give them an hourly rate and provide all the help they are willing to pay for... I've done that and it works out pretty well.

[shardian]

Its going to be awkward if the old company starts calling you for help. 

Why?  Give them an hourly rate and provide all the help they are willing to pay for... I've done that and it works out pretty well.

I make a hell of alot more money freelancing for my company on the side than I do during my 9-5. If they ask you to be a consultant - though I doubt they will - take 'em up on it and make it worth your time.

[myntik1]

Yesterday afternoon my boss was scrambling and that makes me feel good.  I came in this morning to find a stack of outlook meeting invites.  Late yesterday my manager and one of the consultants had a strategy planning session to figure out what I did and who could possibly take over those responsibilities.  The consultant/team lead had a family emergency so she's out of the office the rest of the week and my boss is at an off-site for a couple of days.  I start the new job on the 21st so I was going to end here on the 15th and knock out a bunch of home repair projects that have been lingering.  I have a feeling that they might have no choice but to make a counter-offer.  As I said yesterday the money helps, but it's the peace of mind that I'm after. I think my boss is getting scared because her golden crew can make the world's prettiest charts and can talk a dog off a meat wagon, but they don't know the compliance side of insurance contracting and licensing.

[ChadTower]

May not be a good sign that they have to have a meeting to find out what you do.

[HaRuMaN]

May not be a good sign that they have to have a meeting to find out what you do.

Sounds like a meeting with the 'Bobs'.

[myntik1]

 I'm the only one who knows how to run some crazy reports off of the dirt old mainframe system.  That combined with the fact that I'm the only one who knows Access like I know my left hand means that I had a hand in every audit.  So yesterday afternoon my boss got a list of all of the things I do and how many cookie jars I had my hand in.