Author Topic: The long awaited basement thread (Read 1958 times)

myntik1 · « **on:** March 03, 2008, 12:39:26 pm »

OK, I didn't plan ahead and take pictures of my basement before I started. Right now I would have to say that 2/3rds of the project are completed. I'm going to document the final portion and pass on any wisdom/mistakes I can to the next guy. I just wanted to take my cave-like basement and remodel it to the point where it was usable space for less than 5K.

Things completed/observed/ so far:

(1) Drylok the walls. I was going to skip this step since my basement is really dry, but I really went nuts on my walls. Drylok ain't cheap so go with the 5 gallon bucket. I wound up going the gallon route and regretted it later. My basement in total is 500 sq ft, and except for 2 small areas I did all of the walls and used about 6 gallons ($25/each) or so. I went heavy on the lok though.

(2) Polystyrene sheets. I went this route instead of a vapor barrier. I went with 1/2 4x8 sheets. Expect to pay anywhere between 10-15 bucks a sheet. The R value is extremely low, but it's well worth it. Anything that keeps moisture away from regular insulation is a necessity.

(3) Framing. I googled it, read about it and then started my project. About halfway through the framing a buddy came over and helped me for a couple of hours and showed me some time saving tips. I've never built anything on this scale before, so my knack for improvising didn't always leave everything 16 OC. Your continued sanity starts here. If you do this right everything else falls into place.

**Even if you do this yourself you will drop money like a jewel thief with holes in his pockets, so if you don't already have a framing gun rent one for the weekend. I griped about the coast initially, but the speed savings made the hundo for the rental worth it.

(4) Insulation. Don't skimp. For R13 - R15 you're probably talking about about 10 -15 bucks for a bag (bundle or whatever it's called). You need it for your walls and possibly for your ceiling. It doubles as a sound barrier.

(5) Roughing in the electrical. I ran all of my wires to my mounted electrical boxes. When everything is all done I will compensate someone to come in to inspect the job and wire it into the box. You may or may not want to go this route. If you can claim the area as living space this might not be an option. Since my duct work prevents this area from being classified as anything more than heated storage I'm taking the cheap way out. My buddy's dad is a retired licensed electrcian so I'm confident in his work. I don't know if I would call someone off of craigslist to do my job because there won't be a paper trail if something were to go wrong. Use your best judgment on this.

(6) Sheetrock. Bring a friend, make a friend at HD or make sure your old lady has a sturdy back because moving that stuff is an absolute pain. Right now the new construction market is stagnant so drywall is dirt cheap. I paid less than $6 bucks a sheet for the 1/2 inch sheets. You should do the ceiling first. In my case I'm leaving the ceiling open right now because some of my pipes started to sweat in the last two weeks. I've wrapped all of the pipes in insulation but I want to wait a bit before I rock the ceiling.

I'll post pics later on tonight. I have to hang about 12 more sheets, and then the fun of taping, mudding and sanding.

WaRpEd · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2008, 10:08:56 pm »

3 days and no pics?

Jdurg · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2008, 11:08:35 pm »

Heh. I live in a small cape style house so I can't do anything with my basement but look at it.

Still, I'm happy to be younger than 30 and own my own house.

Right now, my basement has a bit of flooding due to a record rainfall in the past couple of weeks, but the layout itself just really prevents any type of finishing. It's just good for cutting lumber and putting together a CP and eventually both parts of my cab.

myntik1 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2008, 08:10:27 am »

pics are still forthcoming. Real life got hectic between my multiple jobs and my "refuse to win basketball squad" actually making the palyoffs.

myntik1 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2008, 10:31:59 am »

and finally here are some pics. the job site was eerily quiet this weekend.

ChadTower · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2008, 10:34:39 am »

Why such narrow drywall pieces?

I actually sort of fear doing drywall because I have to do everything by myself... I don't know I'd do that great a job with hugeass brittle sheets alone.

myntik1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2008, 11:01:07 am »

some of the pieces are narrow because my 6'3 240lb little brother is a beeyatch. I can call him that because he's family, he owes me a small fortune and I've bailed him out of numerous jams. Twice he came over to help me hang some drywall and twice he came down with some mysterious illness. On his final trip I just had him help me hang some big pieces. I then went back to hang the odd shape pieces myself by cutting it up into manageable pieces.

** caution - carrying and hanging drywall is a man's job. I never thought I would say that, but it is **

Finally last week some help arrived to get me started on the ceiling. For those keeping score at home here's a quick tally of the cash I spent so far. Keep in mind I didn't touch the plumbing and I didn't move my breaker box as the old lady suggested.

Expenses

1 box 1 1/2 drywall screws   18
1 box   1 5/8 drywall screws   18
25   sheets of drywall     150
6   recessed light cans     72
80   2x4x10 lumber (regular) 240
10   2x4x8 lumber (pt)    40
1   roll of Romex elec cable   43
3   single boxes, outlets and covers   12
3   double boxes, outlets and covers   18
2   light switches     3
10   bags of r-13 insulation 100
1   cheap chop saw     45
1   4ft level     20
1   5 gal bucket of compound    12
1   roll of paper drywall tape     5
8   metal corner beads     24
10   sheets of foam board   120
2   bundles of furring strips     12
6   gal of drylok     150
1 gal of cellar floor paint     25

Total so far     1127

I also gave my buddy's dad a $75 restaurant gift cert for doing my wiring. He wanted nothing but it probably would have cost me 2-3 hundo easy. I had to buy beer and pizza for a couple of buddy's to help me get the sheets of drywall into my basement. I guess there were no official codes for hatchways when it was built in '49. It's way too narrow and steep and the first step has a drop of about 18 inches.

Left to do:
Hang the ceiling in the back area
Sand, tape and mud the "living area"
Hang, tape and mud the laundry room and the furnace
Left to buy:
I still have to buy drywall and insulation for behind the laundry room and the furnace.

myntik1 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2008, 11:04:56 am »

I actually sort of fear doing drywall because I have to do everything by myself... I don't know I'd do that great a job with hugeass brittle sheets alone.
[/quote]

get a friend, hire someone, do whatever needs to be done. I haven't started taping and mudding yet, but so far hanging the drywall has been the worst part. The fact that it's heavy and brittle is only half the issue. You can't do it alone unless you're Lee Haney or you cut it into smaller pieces. Everytime I cut a sheet up because I didn't want to wait for help I realized that I'm just adding more work on the back end.

ChadTower · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2008, 11:10:01 am »

Quote from: myntik1 on March 11, 2008, 11:04:56 am

Everytime I cut a sheet up because I didn't want to wait for help I realized that I'm just adding more work on the back end.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I may just have to hire someone for that. Or I'm tempted to use pine tongue and groove planks - more costly but I like that look better anyway.

myntik1 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2008, 11:16:27 am »

I keep forgetting if you're near Boston or near the Cape. Depending on where you are the prices will vary. Anyway I balked when I talked to people in WMASS and they started throwing around figures like 20/sheet to hang and finish. And that's with me buying the rock and the other materials and having it all in my basement. 25 sheets in with about 20 to go to finish the entire project (the laundry/storage/furnace area) I would have to say that 20/sheet is a fair figure. And that's coming from a tight-fisted guy.

ChadTower · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2008, 11:24:29 am »

I'm about halfway between the two. I'm a longass way off from hanging drywall, though.

JMB · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2008, 03:17:15 pm »

Quote from: myntik1 on March 11, 2008, 11:16:27 am

people in WMASS

Where are you? I'm in Easthampton. What are you planning on doing for flooring? I am hoping to start framing sometime in the next few weeks. I am in the same boat as you with the duct work.

myntik1 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2008, 03:34:17 pm »

I'm in Springfield, I just moved from the Mt Tom area of Holyoke. You were just over the hill from me.

topher0002 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2008, 05:57:20 pm »

My Two Cents:

I have about 6 months worth of professionally hanging drywall experience, here are some tips:

-Two people makes things 20 times better

-Use 2 drywall horses for hanging the ceiling, they are adjustable, borrow if you can. Adjust so that you can hold the sheet up with your heads, ideally just standing straight up, or slightly raising your heals, then nail the edges, screw the rest later, it will hold fine till then.

-Make sure every nail you hammer in goes below flushness of drywall, its a pain to mud over it later...use a drywall hammer if possible, much easier.

-Borrow a rotozip type router to route out lights, and stuff, sometimes you can mark a sheet where the light or outlet may be, then hang it and tack it enough to keep it up, then rotozip out the outlet or whatever, takes a little practice, make sure electricity to those out lets is turned off.

-after ceiling is hung, hang tops of walls first then bottom horrizontally if possible, start on left, move to right, or vice versa i guess, just dont start in the middle or anything.

-use a toe lift to make the bottom piece meet with the top piece perfectly, on both bottom and top sheets, lean the sheet up to the studs, put the nails where they are going to go before you lift the sheet, so that when you lift it up there, you can hold the sheet and nail with one hand, at least the top row so you can get it tacked enough to hold while you do the rest. Not necessary for the bottom but you can do it there as well while you use the to lift.

-After hanging screw your ceilings where you didnt nail.

Essential tools for hanging drywall:

-Tape Measure
-4 ft Tsquare
-small hand hole saw
-drywall knife (box cutter, etc)
-drywall hammer (there $30 but worth it)
-Construction Pencil
-Rotozip (not required but makes things easier)

Biggest Time Saving Tip (hopefully I can explain it right), Place entire sheet against a wall..... measure how wide or tall your piece needs to be mark it with T-square, use your square and use your knife to cut a straight line (not all the way through, just score it) then move the sheet away from the wall, on the back side of where the score was just hit if firmly with your wrist and hold the end, it should break perfectly, then use your knife to score the rest on the back side down the same folded line. This is a heck of a lot easier then using a table saw or any type of saw to cut each sheet, or using a horse and cutting that way,
----------------------------------------------

I have a bunch of tips for taping/finishing etc as well but im tired of typing for the day, I might do that in the next couple of days.

I hope this helps!

bfauska · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2008, 07:22:41 pm »

I don't know how accurate any of that is, but assuming it's correct information... you sir are a superstar. I am sure that in the next few years I'll have some sizable drywall projects of my own and those tips sound like they could save lots of time. I tend to do things myself, but most of those tips could even help then. The idea of starting the nails before putting the sheet in-place and then just hammering while you hold it is fantastic. I hope you add the mud/tape tricks later then I'll have to bookmark the topic to refer to it later. It's little things like those that often don't make it into books so you don't know about them unless you have personal experience... or somebody shares. Thanks for the tips.

Myntik,
The project is looking good. It sucks when you have help but they are unreliable. I don't tend to be a very good leader myself which makes it really hard for me to work with helpers unless they are skilled in their own right. I am sure that trait will bite me in the ass when I need help on a future remodel or building project.

myntik1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2008, 09:51:39 am »

Phase I is almost complete. Long story short - I ran into 2 kids (I guess I'm old now that I refer to college football players as kids) that bounce at the bar I used to work at. I asked if either of them wanted to make few bucks helping me hang some drywall on my ceiling. I figure I'll give 1 of them a few bucks since my options are to have a million seams on my ceiling by doing it myself or start picking up co-pays for my brother and his illness du jour. They claimed they do remodeling each summer. I'm a bit skeptical, but cheap help is cheap help. At the very least they can hold up the sheets so I can screw it in place. The next day we knocked out the ceiling. One of the kids with more skill than the other asks if I want them to box in the water valve, put the corner bead on, tape and mud the whole thing. So it's judgment time, I ask what the damage would be. His reply - since we have to come out 2 more times to tape and mud I think $150 is fair. My reply is "150?". He comes back with - do you think $150 total is too much. My eyes light up like X-MAS and I say it's a done deal. My plan was to do it all myself, but at that price my laziness kicked in. I thought he was saying 150 each. At 3 hundo I would do the taping and mudding myself, but at 150 to help me knock out most of the remaining work in 1 night and to come back to do the dirty work - it's a gift from god that I can't turn down.

Sprucemoose · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2008, 12:05:48 pm »

Paying $150 is a dream. I am in the process of finishing my basement also. I just got done mudding the drywall. I had never done it before, but if I could have paid someone $150 i would have. It was a tedious process when you are not good at it. As long as you are patient it will turn out alright, but man it was messy and a headache. I am sooooooooooooooo happy to be done.

Good luck with your project. Looks great so far. More pics!

myntik1 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:14:35 am »

Monday morning update

After reviewing my ever growing shoebox full of receipts I guess I lied to myself. When I started to piece together my Lowe's and HD purchases for the last 3.5 months I was shocked. The list I put together a few spots up was off the top of my head while I was at my desk. I forgot the masks, muriatic acid, extra can of drylok (my 2yr old knocked over a can), the ton of goo off I used to remove the drylok from my floor, the concrete etch, drywall t-square, plumb bob, chalk line, etc. When all is said and done I would have to say that materials/tools probably amounted to 2000 so far. This includes the 150 for the gun rental, fuel and nails.

And then add in another 200 for the 2 college kids to mud and sand (I gave them an extra 50), which should have probably cost me 3-4. And the seriously insane discount my buddy's dad gave me on my electrical. I bought the parts, but he came in and wired 8 outlets, 8 recessed lights, moved some existing lights, and tied everything into my breaker for free. I sent him and his wife a 75 gc to their favorite restaurant, but looking back at it now I may send them another one. Although he's 70 and not as spry as he once was having a master electrician at your house for 5 hours probably should have cost me about 4 hundred.

With any luck we (yes me included) should do the final sanding tonight and then it's cleanup time before I primer and paint the living areas.

At some point this week I will put together a comprehensive list of parts and materials needed. If for some crazy reason someone wants this info drop me a line and I'll send it to you or I can post it if needed.

And before anyone asks doing a basement isn't hard, it's just time consuming. My previous woodworking projects involved building launch ramps and a quarter pipe as a kid, building a leapinlew knockoff juke and 1 mame cabinet. So it's not like I possesed Knievel type woodworking skills.

ChadTower · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:50:43 am »

Quote from: myntik1 on March 17, 2008, 08:14:35 am

Although he's 70 and not as spry as he once was having a master electrician at your house for 5 hours probably should have cost me about 4 hundred.

You may want to up that estimate. I recently had one new circuit run - feet from the breaker box in new framing - and it ran me $400 for 90 minutes of work. The electrician sent two guys to do it at $75/hr each plus materials. They rounded it up to two full hours, too. They did great work but I may have to get bids next time. At that cost the rest of the basement will run me thousands just for the electrical.

EDIT: forgot, that included permits and inspection too.

myntik1 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2008, 10:53:17 am »

Ouch. I guess I need to really get after that extra gc, since he saved me a fortune.

A couple of suggestions/comments:

Have a realistic budget. I thought I would spend about 1500 and be done. Now I'm at 175% of my original budget and I still need to get 2 prehung regular 36 inch doors, a new hatchway door, moulding, primer, paint, more insulation, drywall and wall-to-wall capreting. So I'm probably another 1500 away from being done.

I can't stress this enough - find an able-bodied person to help you. If this isn't an option ask someone to take a peek at your progress from time to time. My brother was able to give me a couple of ideas on things to do that I had never thought of.

moisture resistant drywall is on sale right now at HD for 7.50/sheet. This is the stuff you use in bathrooms. I would have gone with this if it wasn't 4-5 more per sheet when I purchased it. It's probably over kill, but if you have any water issues in your basement this might be worth the extra few bucks.

depending on the delivery charge just have the store deliver your drywall. I balked at the $45 delivery charge (I'm 15 minutes away from both stores), but I had to make multiple trips. I should have paid the 45 and had them drop the 30-40 pieces of drywall in my garage and been done with it.

myntik1 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2008, 12:04:37 pm »

as with everything else in my life, when I concentrate on the pennies my dollars got neglected. The two college kids could hang some rock, but their taping and mudding left a lot to be desired. Of course my original framing probably contributed to the poor taping and mudding. Tomorrow I should be done with the painting. On a scale of 1 (dank, dark dungeon) - 100 (great party room that your friends rave about), I would have to say that my basement is probably in the 70's. Considering I had never done a project this size before and never worked with rock I'm ok with the final product. I got quotes around 10K to do my basement. I'm at 2300 w/o counting the 2 doors I need to purchase.

Words of wisdom - spend the few dollars on the inside corner edges. I didn't and now I regret that decision. When the doors are in I'll post some more pics.


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