It's Over! Blu-Ray Officially Wins!

[HaRuMaN]

Report: Toshiba May End HD DVD Format

[mountain]

It is the end. Glad I didn't buy that $149 HD-DVD player from Best Buy a while ago!

[HaRuMaN]

Yeah...  I was considering getting the Xbox 360 HD add-on, but now I'm glad I didn't.  Maybe I'll use that tax rebate and get a PS3 instead.

[somunny]

Yeah...  I was considering getting the Xbox 360 HD add-on, but now I'm glad I didn't. 

Same here.  I have too many games to play as it is so I'll probably just pick up a dedicated BD player.

[shmokes]

Keep in mind that the PS3 is the best BD player out there.  It's the only one that's future proof because of firmware updates.  You can definitely get a player for less, but if I were in the market for a player I'd get the PS3, even if I thought I would never play a single game on it.  Plus, I'd probably be wrong about never wanting to play a single game on it.

[somunny]

Keep in mind that the PS3 is the best BD player out there.  It's the only one that's future proof because of firmware updates. 

Well, you certainly have a good point there.  It is the only future proof player.

[shmokes]

One caveat, though.  The PS3 does not have an IR port.  The multimedia remote for it uses BlueTooth just like the controllers.  Thus, don't expect your Harmony, or any other universal remote, to control it.  Kind of a big deal to anyone with a one-remote setup like me.  Seems like a pretty dumb thing for Sony to overlook, considering how important it is for Sony to position PS3 as a media center, and the negligible cost of adding an IR port.  For crying out loud, it'd be one thing if this was Nintendo we're talking about, but Sony?  They ought to know a thing or two about audio/video components.

[boykster]

One caveat, though.  The PS3 does not have an IR port.  The multimedia remote for it uses BlueTooth just like the controllers.  Thus, don't expect your Harmony, or any other universal remote, to control it.  Kind of a big deal to anyone with a one-remote setup like me.  Seems like a pretty dumb thing for Sony to overlook, considering how important it is for Sony to position PS3 as a media center, and the negligible cost of adding an IR port.  For crying out loud, it'd be one thing if this was Nintendo we're talking about, but Sony?  They ought to know a thing or two about audio/video components.

Really?  That's just plain dumb on Sony's part.  WTH were they thinking?  That would never work for me, I NEED an IR or RS232 port to integrate it into my control system.  Bluetooth would be too cumbersome to get up and running as it would require me to write a whole new control plugin for my system.

Hopefully somebody will make an IR -> bluetooth addon for the PS3....

[stace]

Looks like Microsoft will have one for the 360 anyway !!    I'm sure that will be firmware upgradeable !!

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EkpFkAlFuEnRNJRneB.php

[shardian]

Maybe someone should just send Microsoft a memo that Add-on accessories have always been and always will be failures in the console market.

[ChadTower]

Maybe someone should just send Microsoft a memo that expensive Add-on accessories have always been and always will be failures in the console market.

fixt

Things like the GBA player usually do well for what they are. 

[shardian]

I'm still pissed that M$ required the purchase of a remote to play DVD's on the xbox. WTF was up with that?

[pointdablame]

One caveat, though.  The PS3 does not have an IR port.  The multimedia remote for it uses BlueTooth just like the controllers.  Thus, don't expect your Harmony, or any other universal remote, to control it.  Kind of a big deal to anyone with a one-remote setup like me.  Seems like a pretty dumb thing for Sony to overlook, considering how important it is for Sony to position PS3 as a media center, and the negligible cost of adding an IR port.  For crying out loud, it'd be one thing if this was Nintendo we're talking about, but Sony?  They ought to know a thing or two about audio/video components.

The Harmony 890 works with bluetooth.  You're mostly right, but you can still have a "one remote setup" with a PS3, you just need the right remote.  The Wii also uses bluetooth and can work with the 890, though I've yet to figure out why you'd want your Wii controlled by another remote... not like it can do anything worthwhile without the Wiimote.

[shmokes]

I'm still pissed that M$ required the purchase of a remote to play DVD's on the xbox. WTF was up with that?

That was kind of ridiculous, especially when the dongle-free DVD player worked great.

It honestly kind of scares me to see Sony winning a format war.  They always have neat stuff but I've never trusted what they'd do if they actually 'won'.

It's because in order to sell a product that can play DVD movies you have to pay a royalty to the DVD consortium, which would have raised the price of Microsoft's already expensive console.  By disabling the feature, the only Xboxes that needed to pay the royalty were the ones that had the feature enabled (by the dongle).  They decided that since the VAST VAST VAST majority of households already owned standalone DVD players at the time, most users would rather save the $15 off the price of the console.  The way they did it meant that only the people who actually wanted to use it as a DVD player would have to pay that royalty.  The DVD Dongle-Free program is illegal.

[ChadTower]

They did a lot of people a major favor, too, given how crappy the DVD drive is on most Xboxes.  If people had been using them as movie players too their Xboxes would have been dead that much sooner.

[patrickl]

The Harmony 890 works with bluetooth.  You're mostly right, but you can still have a "one remote setup" with a PS3, you just need the right remote.  The Wii also uses bluetooth and can work with the 890, though I've yet to figure out why you'd want your Wii controlled by another remote... not like it can do anything worthwhile without the Wiimote.

Are you sure? I don't think it does bluetooth. It's RF, but AFAIK it's some proprietary Logitech signal and not bluetooth.

:edit: Looks like you can control the PS3 by buying an IR-USB adapter like the one that comes with the Nyko Blu-Wave remote.

[hypernova]

Looks like Microsoft will have one for the 360 anyway !!    I'm sure that will be firmware upgradeable !!

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EkpFkAlFuEnRNJRneB.php

So what does that mean for already produced games?  Will MS have compatibility for them, or will they need to come out with entirely new game discs of the same games?

We can only hope that Toshiba considers the public, and quickly pulls out, instead of mulling it over when we all know what the outcome will be.  They just have no support at all.

Dude...what the hell?  I got home 20 minutes ago, and there was no snow or anything falling, ground was clear...windy, but no snow.  Just heard a knock at the door, and I go to the window...I can't see a damn thing outside!!  Looks like 1/4" out there.
Freaky...

[pointdablame]

Are you sure? I don't think it does bluetooth. It's RF, but AFAIK it's some proprietary Logitech signal and not bluetooth.

:edit: Looks like you can control the PS3 by buying an IR-USB adapter like the one that comes with the Nyko Blu-Wave remote.

yup you're right.  I just took a look at the thread I had read and you do need an adapter.  I thought I had read it did it natively.

[shmokes]

So what does that mean for already produced games? 

Xbox 360 games will NEVER be released on BluRay.  A BluRay drive might be incorporated into future skews, and of course it's possible that another external drive will be released.  But these would be for movies only.  There are like 16 million Xbox 360s sold so far.  No publisher anywhere, ever, would even consider splitting their market by releasing a game on a disc that only some (a minority, at that) Xbox 360s could read.  It will NEVER happen.  Ever.  Future Xboxes might be able to play BluRay movies, but ALL Xbox 360 games, from now until the end of time, will be released on DVD9 discs (or be downloadable from XBLA, of course).

[patrickl]

So what does that mean for already produced games? 

Xbox 360 games will NEVER be released on BluRay.  A BluRay drive might be incorporated into future skews, and of course it's possible that another external drive will be released.  But these would be for movies only.  There are like 16 million Xbox 360s sold so far.  No publisher anywhere, ever, would even consider splitting their market by releasing a game on a disc that only some (a minority, at that) Xbox 360s could read.  It will NEVER happen.  Ever.  Future Xboxes might be able to play BluRay movies, but ALL Xbox 360 games, from now until the end of time, will be released on DVD9 discs (or be downloadable from XBLA, of course).

I guess that makes sense in a way, but I think it goes a bit too far to say "NEVER".

The PS2 had 100 million units sold. They didn't care about the initial 16million after a while. For instance, there were online games for the PS2 that only worked with the slim PS2. Or I had to buy a network adapter for my older PS2.

If in the future the installed base of Xbox 360s with Blu-Ray becomes big enough they might start bringing out games that work only on that. Maybe even bundle two disks in a box.

Not sure why they would need Blu-Ray for now, but to say that that's NEVER going to happen is like claiming that 640KB is enough for everyone.

[pointdablame]

For instance, there were online games for the PS2 that only worked with the slim PS2. Or I had to buy a network adapter for my older PS2.

Those games were released while the fat PS2 was out.  it did not in any way shape or form "only work with slim PS2s"  It simply required the ethernet adapter which was not included in the original PS2.  The slim made it EASIER to play the games I guess, but that's about it.

If in the future the installed base of Xbox 360s with Blu-Ray becomes big enough they might start bringing out games that work only on that. Maybe even bundle two disks in a box.

Not sure why they would need Blu-Ray for now, but to say that that's NEVER going to happen is like claiming that 640KB is enough for everyone.

That is a HUGE "if"  I have to agree with shmokes.  In the console's life cycle, I see no way for the add-on BluRay drive to grow a large enough installed base to have game publishers shoot themselves in the foot and split their market.  It's not going to happen.  NEVER.

[patrickl]

For instance, there were online games for the PS2 that only worked with the slim PS2. Or I had to buy a network adapter for my older PS2.

Those games were released while the fat PS2 was out.  it did not in any way shape or form "only work with slim PS2s"  It simply required the ethernet adapter which was not included in the original PS2.  The slim made it EASIER to play the games I guess, but that's about it.

Still, it only really worked for part of the installed base. How is that different?

[patrickl]

Are you sure? I don't think it does bluetooth. It's RF, but AFAIK it's some proprietary Logitech signal and not bluetooth.

:edit: Looks like you can control the PS3 by buying an IR-USB adapter like the one that comes with the Nyko Blu-Wave remote.

yup you're right.  I just took a look at the thread I had read and you do need an adapter.  I thought I had read it did it natively.

Ah too bad. My dad has one of these and he specifically bought it to control his "media player computer" which uses an RF remote. Only to find that the RF in the 890 is only used to drive the IR extenders. Would have been nice if it turned out that it actually used Bluetooth and that it could be used for controlling devices. Ah well.

[HaRuMaN]

Toshiba quits HD DVD business

[ChadTower]

Xbox 360 games will NEVER be released on BluRay. 

Why does everyone always assume the two formats are mutually exclusive?  There is zero reason aside from licensing that a game or movie couldn't be released on both.  Licensing is all corporate games and has little bearing on the technology.

[Level42]

Keep in mind that the PS3 is the best BD player out there.  It's the only one that's future proof because of firmware updates.  You can definitely get a player for less, but if I were in the market for a player I'd get the PS3, even if I thought I would never play a single game on it.  Plus, I'd probably be wrong about never wanting to play a single game on it.

Why would it be impossible to update normal Blu-ray players ?
I've updated the firmware of my DVD player too...
Are Blu-ray players protected for updates ?

[ChadTower]

Why would it be impossible to update normal Blu-ray players ?
I've updated the firmware of my DVD player too...
Are Blu-ray players protected for updates ?

It wouldn't be, technically.  Practically, most people will never even understand what firmware is, nevermind that it may be upgraded.  The PS3 is a blind device in that regard - since it connects to a service it can upgrade itself.

[patrickl]

Geez, I did some checking on updating firmware for regular players. It seems to work just fine technically, but the comments really give a glimps of the nightmare that Blu-ray really is. People are reporting disks not playing all over the place. Imagine coming home with a $35 Blu-ray disk of your favorite movie. Finally sitting down to watch it in superior HD and then the disk simply doesn't play! WTF is up with that?

To make matters worse, some comments on the firmware releases say that after they install new firmware some disks now work, but that others then stopped working.

[shmokes]

Plus the BluRay spec includes features that are not currently possible on many players even if those players firmware is updatable, such as running interactive java apps in the menus that can connect to the internet and do things like pull down new movie previews rather than be stuck with the same "coming soon" previews on your disc for the next five years.

[ChadTower]

Am I the only person who never uses any of the special features on a DVD?  About the most I'll ever do is watch the original trailer.  Most of the time I won't even do that.

[whammoed]

Am I the only person who never uses any of the special features on a DVD?  About the most I'll ever do is watch the original trailer.  Most of the time I won't even do that.

Nope.  I barely find the time to watch the movie, much less look at all the other junk.  Most movies are such crap anyway, like I would ever care about directors commentary or alternate endings etc...

[Level42]

Plus the BluRay spec includes features that are not currently possible on many players even if those players firmware is updatable, such as running interactive java apps in the menus that can connect to the internet and do things like pull down new movie previews rather than be stuck with the same "coming soon" previews on your disc for the next five years.

I feel the first Bly-ray viruses coming up already !

I'd rather not have that. Updating the firmware on my Pioneer DVD player simply required loading a disc. Too easy almost. It was a hacked version, which starts the main movie immediately, instead of playing all the crap like trailers, copyright, anti-piracy warnings etc. Also longer mp3 file names etc.

Well, as long as my 16:9 CRT works fine, I won't be leaving the DVD format. Looks fine to me.

[divemaster127]

Anybody want to buy a Toshiba HDA-30

[Dartful Dodger]

Microsoft cares about their customers.  Microsoft would never do anything to force people to buy an upgrade to run their software. 

NEVER.

[AtomSmasher]

Microsoft cares about their customers.  Microsoft would never do anything to force people to buy an upgrade to run their software. 

NEVER.

[WaRpEd]

Microsoft cares about their customers.  Microsoft would never do anything to force people to buy an upgrade to run their software. 

NEVER.

 
Seconded

[Ginsu Victim]

Now that HD-DVD is gone, how long before Blu-ray is dead? The average consumer has just now made the switch fully to DVD and has a good collection going.

The difference from VHS to DVD was amazing. The difference from DVD to Blu-ray? Not enough for the average person. Also the idea of buying a new TV just to watch a certain format turns most people off.

I'll stick with DVD for years to come, and so will most everyone else.

[protokatie]

Hint: There is no such thing as a customer anymore. We are all CONSUMERS now. There is a huge diference between the two words...

[boykster]

Now that HD-DVD is gone, how long before Blu-ray is dead? The average consumer has just now made the switch fully to DVD and has a good collection going.

The difference from VHS to DVD was amazing. The difference from DVD to Blu-ray? Not enough for the average person. Also the idea of buying a new TV just to watch a certain format turns most people off.

I'll stick with DVD for years to come, and so will most everyone else.

Doubtful; full adoption of DVD took a heck of a long time too, but it eventually happened, and VHS had a longer foothold than DVD did.  Also, the myth that VHS-> DVD was a greater jump than DVD-> BluRay (or HD-DVD) is bunk.  The resolution increase from DVD (480p) to HD content (1080p) is greater than VHS (230 lines) to DVD (480).  Sure, the jump to no rewinding, menus, special features, etc is already there, but that's just chrome IMHO.  There's already a HUGE userbase that is focused on video quality above all else.  Additionally, the increase of HD content on cable and satellite provides something that DVD didn't have when it was competing with VHS: a direct example of how you COULD/SHOULD be seeing your movies.  When you can watch Law & Order in full HD glory, but your copy of Beowulf looks grainy, you'll want to find a way to fix that.


 

[Ginsu Victim]

Blu-ray will simply be like Laserdisc was during the VHS years. Videophiles only.

DVD will be the main format for many years.