Chipboard for cabinet?

[Retro_SA]

Particleboard, or particle board, (called "chipboard" in the UK and Australia) is an engineered wood product manufactured from wood particles, such as wood chips, sawmill shavings, or even saw dust, and a synthetic resin or other suitable binder, which is pressed and extruded. Particleboard is a type of fiberboard, a composite material, but it is made up of larger pieces of wood than medium-density fibreboard and hardboard.

I take it chipboard is more or less the same as MDF?  I'm strugling to find MDF where I stay, but I can get chipboard for really really cheap.  Will this work for my cabinet?  I should be just as easy to cut and paint as MDF, shouldn't it?

[Orclord]

Nope completely different material.....

Different to cut and paint.....

Chipboard will work for a cab though....Most original cabs I've come across are chipboard....

[Retro_SA]

Nope completely different material.....

Different to cut and paint.....

Chipboard will work for a cab though....Most original cabs I've come across are chipboard....

Different as in more difficult?

[sstorkel]

Chipboard weighs less than MDF and tends to sag less under it's own weight, in my experience. I haven't noticed much difference in the way it cuts. The dust doesn't seem to be quite as fine as that from MDF, but that's the only thing I've noticed.

Finishing, I suspect will be more difficult. The surface of chipboard isn't as smooth as MDF, so you may have to work to make it smooth. If you want a high-gloss finish, you'd probably in for a lot of work.

As an alternative to plain chipboard, allow me to suggest melamine-covered chipboard (a.k.a. "melamine"). TThis is  basically chipboard with a layer of melamine plastic fused to the top. If you've seen the cheap, white bookshelves sold by discount furniture stores that's melamine. The good news is that you can get it in colors other than white. My local plywood supplier has black in stock and can special-order a variety of woodgrain looks. Black, it would seem to me, could be a great starting point for an arcade cabinet! You wouldn't have to do any finishing; just screw it together, apply the artwork to the sides, and you're done!

The downside to melamine is that the plastic coating is very thin and chips easily when cut with a saw. You need a really sharp saw blade (preferably one designed for melamine cutting) and it must be kept absolutely clean if you don't want your cuts to look like crap. Even so, you'll probably find that either the bottom or the top of the cut tends to chip; usually the bottom. That isn't a problem, as long as you plan your cuts precisely. If you get chipping on the bottom, then make sure that's the side of the material that will point toward the inside of the cabinet. If worse comes to worst, you can actually do a pretty good job of touching up the cuts using a black permanent marking pen (e.g. the "Sharpie" brand in the U.S.)

[Fozzy The Bear]

The downside to melamine is that the plastic coating is very thin and chips easily when cut with a saw. You need a really sharp saw blade (preferably one designed for melamine cutting) and it must be kept absolutely clean if you don't want your cuts to look like crap.

To prevent the laminate chipping when cutting it, stick a heavy weight tape along both sides of the board at the cut line. This stops the edges from breaking out. also use a very fine saw blade the sort used for metal cutting and run it at a very high speed.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Retro_SA]

I'll probably just make a mess of everything if I try to cut with the laminate on.  I'll give the painting a go and see how it turns out.

[IA1NY]

Just to set things straight...  MDF is made from a much finer particle than chipboard which is why it's denser (heavier).  Painted chipboard can be a pretty cheesy look unless it is painted in some sort of faux finish like a marble or granite.  It also doesn't weather near as well as MDF does nor is as strong (and MDF isn't exactly stong).  Many OEM cabinets like Ikea are chipboard based and the strength shows, but then they are either laminated or are melamine.  With either material, laminating is preferred.  With MDF having finer particles, the edges are smoother and easier to laminate cleanly.  It's definitely recommended.

If you've already purchased chipboard, you can do a decent laminating job by oversizing your panel by 1/8", then use a router and straightedge to cut the final edge.  That'll give you a great edge and is pretty simple to do all in all.

[sstorkel]

Just to set things straight...  MDF is made from a much finer particle than chipboard which is why it's denser (heavier).  Painted chipboard can be a pretty cheesy look unless it is painted in some sort of faux finish like a marble or granite.  It also doesn't weather near as well as MDF does nor is as strong (and MDF isn't exactly stong).  Many OEM cabinets like Ikea are chipboard based and the strength shows, but then they are either laminated or are melamine.  With either material, laminating is preferred.  With MDF having finer particles, the edges are smoother and easier to laminate cleanly.  It's definitely recommended.

If you've already purchased chipboard, you can do a decent laminating job by oversizing your panel by 1/8", then use a router and straightedge to cut the final edge.  That'll give you a great edge and is pretty simple to do all in all.

I'm curious to know why you think MDF is stronger than chipboard. My experience is exactly the opposite: I've seen 4'x8' sheets of 3/4" thick MDF sag under their own (extreme) weight while the sag in a similar sized piece of melamine chipboard isn't much worse than plywood.

I'm also curious as to why you suggest trimming laminate with a straight edge rather than a flush trim bit. Unless you're going to trim both the chipboard and the laminate at the same time? I've always attached an oversize sheet of laminate to wood, then used a flush trim bit to make it exactly the same size as the wood underneath. This works so well, I'm wondering why you'd suggest an alternative technique...

[IA1NY]

I'm curious to know why you think MDF is stronger than chipboard. My experience is exactly the opposite: I've seen 4'x8' sheets of 3/4" thick MDF sag under their own (extreme) weight while the sag in a similar sized piece of melamine chipboard isn't much worse than plywood.

I'm also curious as to why you suggest trimming laminate with a straight edge rather than a flush trim bit. Unless you're going to trim both the chipboard and the laminate at the same time? I've always attached an oversize sheet of laminate to wood, then used a flush trim bit to make it exactly the same size as the wood underneath. This works so well, I'm wondering why you'd suggest an alternative technique...

First the Strength:
Look up ANSI A208.2-2002 (MDF) and ANSI A208.1-1999 (Particleboard)  In essence, the two documents state that MDF is stronger but flexes more and Particleboard is weaker, but stiffer.  Particleboard does have better screwholding capability than MDF.  That is about as empirical as I can get.  ANSI has scientifically tested it,  I only have anecdotal evidence.



About the technique:
If you aren't going to see the edges, you are right, it doesn't matter whether you veneer before you mill the sheet or not.  If you have an exposed edge, it becomes more important to have a smoother bearing surface so that your edge is nice and crisp rather than being ragged looking.  Chipboard tends to be more pitted on the edge than MDF.  It is made of larger particles, and thus has a more porous nature.  MDF edges tend to be very smooth and thus make a better bearing surface for your router bit.  That is why I mentioned that.  Every time I laminate with chipboard, I either have to do this or else sand the edge.  In my style of working, the straightedge process is faster.  Yes I do cut through the veneer and core at the same time this way.  It makes for a very clean edge that takes edgebanding very well.  If the edge is in a dado (slot) or rebate, I don't worry about it since it will be hidden.

I hope this explains it well enough.
Thanks for keeping me honest.

[Retro_SA]

Finally found a place that sells mdf.  I went there today to see whats the difference between mdf and chipboard and I can't believe how heavy mdf is!  It does look like a better one to use between the 2, so I'm going to be using mdf.  Thanks again for all the advice guys.

Away on business for a week and then I'm starting!   

[sstorkel]

First the Strength:
Look up ANSI A208.2-2002 (MDF) and ANSI A208.1-1999 (Particleboard)  In essence, the two documents state that MDF is stronger but flexes more and Particleboard is weaker, but stiffer.  Particleboard does have better screwholding capability than MDF.  That is about as empirical as I can get.  ANSI has scientifically tested it,  I only have anecdotal evidence.

I'm not sure I have the same interpretation of ANSI's tests as you do. I understand that MDF has better rupture strength, but when building bookshelves, MAME cabinets, etc. I think that screw-holding and rigidity are far more important than the modulus of rupture... Of course, I have to admit that I just don't see the point of MDF. If I'm going to paint something, I use MDO. If I don't want to paint, I use melamine-covered plywood. About the only place I'd use MDF is for a raised-panel door; something where I needed to route a fine, detailed profile and then planned to paint afterwards.

About the technique:
If you aren't going to see the edges, you are right, it doesn't matter whether you veneer before you mill the sheet or not.  If you have an exposed edge, it becomes more important to have a smoother bearing surface so that your edge is nice and crisp rather than being ragged looking.  Chipboard tends to be more pitted on the edge than MDF.  It is made of larger particles, and thus has a more porous nature.  MDF edges tend to be very smooth and thus make a better bearing surface for your router bit.  That is why I mentioned that.  Every time I laminate with chipboard, I either have to do this or else sand the edge.  In my style of working, the straightedge process is faster.  Yes I do cut through the veneer and core at the same time this way.  It makes for a very clean edge that takes edgebanding very well.  If the edge is in a dado (slot) or rebate, I don't worry about it since it will be hidden.

That makes sense. I use a high-quality blade designed for cutting particleboard, so I always end up with crisp edges. Even when cutting melamine, I get very little chipping and it's usually only on the offcut piece. In any event, I guess this is why I can get away with using a flush trim bit and trimming the laminate to the saw-cut edge.

[IA1NY]

I'm not sure I have the same interpretation of ANSI's tests as you do. I understand that MDF has better rupture strength, but when building bookshelves, MAME cabinets, etc. I think that screw-holding and rigidity are far more important than the modulus of rupture... Of course, I have to admit that I just don't see the point of MDF. If I'm going to paint something, I use MDO. If I don't want to paint, I use melamine-covered plywood. About the only place I'd use MDF is for a raised-panel door; something where I needed to route a fine, detailed profile and then planned to paint afterwards.

I thought we were talking about strength of material, not screwholding capabilities....  Seriously, I've been building with MDF for many years, and have never had a blowout when actors are dancing on it, and if you think gamers are rough on their cabinets, you've never met a dancer...

With any cabinet that I make for the stage, I reinforce corners too.  If it's not a movable cabinet (ie home use) I'll usually dado joint the thing.  That'll help too.  Lately, I've had a LOT of access to free birch plywood, so I'm in my Birch phase.  You're right about MDO being better paintwise.  I use that too when strength is a concern.  It's basically fir ply with a thick layer of paper on one or two sides.  That makes a LOT of sense.  I've been routing a bunch of large moulding profiles on my CNC router lately with great success.  Once they're painted, they look great.

About the technique:

That makes sense. I use a high-quality blade designed for cutting particleboard, so I always end up with crisp edges. Even when cutting melamine, I get very little chipping and it's usually only on the offcut piece. In any event, I guess this is why I can get away with using a flush trim bit and trimming the laminate to the saw-cut edge.

Me personally, I hate melamine.  Cheap sh*t.  I'll spend the money to laminate with formica before I use that.  You're totally on about using the proper tool for the job.  I can't say how many times I see people grousing about the quality of cut when they're using the wrong tooling for a job.  All I can do is shake my head...  If you're still  getting chipping, check the alignment of your saw.  Even on your offcut.  Use a dial caliper and your can dial even that out of the system.  I was very happy the first time I did that with my saw.  It's also nice to not get dust shot back at you.

Take care, hope you can count to ten when you're old...

[sstorkel]

Me personally, I hate melamine.  Cheap sh*t. 

Yep, it's cheap sh*t... but 2-3X the price of the MDF you like so well  At least in my area...

You're totally on about using the proper tool for the job.  I can't say how many times I see people grousing about the quality of cut when they're using the wrong tooling for a job.  All I can do is shake my head...  If you're still  getting chipping, check the alignment of your saw.  Even on your offcut.  Use a dial caliper and your can dial even that out of the system.  I was very happy the first time I did that with my saw.  It's also nice to not get dust shot back at you.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing. I use a high-quality circular saw to break down melamine sheets, so alignment isn't an issue. The real problem is keeping the blade clean. The melamine plastic tends to melt and adhere to the blade right behind the carbide teeth. If you don't clean the teeth periodically, these deposits build up until they stick out past the carbide. That's a recipe for getting small chips when you cut. I use a sawboard and a cutting table, so even if the blade is gunked up, I only have problems on the top of the offcut piece; it's the only place where the melamine isn't held in place by the table or the sawboard. I could probably fix that by laying tape across the joint, but it's usually not worth the effort.

[IA1NY]

Yep, it's cheap sh*t... but 2-3X the price of the MDF you like so well  At least in my area...

Yeah, Prefinished matereials usually are more...  One of my favorite quotes comes from a lockset salesman.  A while back I had to purchase a $1500 lockset for a client, and the salesman told me "It's expensive, but at least it looks expensive."