Wii HACKED!!!

[Howard_Casto]

The tp hack has finally been released!

http://wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Twilight_Hack


(Be sure to rename to data.bin... I got overly excited and was left scratching my head for a minute or two.)

The exploit works fine for me, but seeing as how I don't have a gc/sd adaptor or usb gecko I couldn't test to see if existing gc homebrew is detected.  Could someone with the hardware please try that for me?  The hacks been out all day but I've yet to see confirmation that existing homebrew can be loaded.

[ahofle]

Wow, if this is what I think it is (homebrew on wii without a mod chip) then kickass!
What hardware are you missing to be able to test this?  Can't you load the homebrew to the SD card on a PC?

[Howard_Casto]

Well as of now, the exploit only checks the gamecube memory slots, so you need one of those fancy gamecube to sd adaptors as the wii's sd slot isn't read.  It is able to run true wii homebrew though, there just isn't any out yet and nobody knows how to mount the wii's sd slot yet. 

In other words you load this gamesave onto your wii (which I have, via the regular sd slot) and when you run zelda and talk to someone, the loader kicks in and it'll (in theory) run any homebrew on your gamecube slots.  Right now, as far as I can go is getting the exploit to kick in, tell me that nothing is found on my slots and show the penguin and message shown on the youtube video. 

[Samstag]

I have one of those fancy $10 SD adaptors a previous firmware update made useless (because the boot cd stopped working).  I'll give it a try if I have time.  I think I still have an SD card with some Gamecube emulators.

It's interesting that the site you linked and the FAQ linked from there both assume I know what this hack is and how to use it, but that I have never heard of an SD card and might have some difficulty figuring out where to stick it.  Hopefully I can find some better information elsewhere.

[SNAAKE]

meh..

[shmokes]

Hmm . . . waggle Tetris actually sounds like fun, especially with multiplayer.

[Samstag]

Apparently all it does is detect an SD card.  This doesn't do anything else.  Wake me up when they can run code.

[Howard_Casto]

Considering you've been able to play bootlegs on the thing with a 4 cent PIC that could be programmed with a $5 device, I'd say the Wii was hacked months ago. 

There's a lot of interesting possibilities with the Wii, but without development kits I don't really see much coming out of this.  And honestly, what would you -really- want the Wii to do? 

Play DVDs?  Play divx?  No thanks.

Emulators that let me use the Wiimote would be nice, especially once someone hacks the Virtual Console titles.

If we see any homebrew besides waggle-tetris, I'll be surprised.

Well considering those chips are hard to install and void your warranty and only allow you to run pirated backups and gamecube (not wii) homebrew then you'd be wrong on that assumption.  To put it blunty, the disc format, until recently could not be cracked and thus you could only play either gamecube homebrew (which can't use the wiimote ect...) or stuff that's already been developed with a proper key, even though the key is bypassed (wii pirated games).  This expolit is a direct result of the recent ability to get encrypiton keys from the wii and thus is an example of WII homebrew, NOT gc homebrew. 

The virtual consoles are already "hacked" in a sense, it's just a few more steps have to be achieved before something is playable.  See the geniuses at nintendo decided to put the "emulators" that run the vc demos on the smash bros disc in unencrypted form because the disc itself is encrypted.  Well disc encryption was recently cracked on the wii and some has already written a utility that can extract the roms on the smash bros disc and found that they are perfectly playable on pc emulators.  Once a disc writing utility is released and/or an elf loader we'll be able to roll our own vc titles via the smash bros emulators. 

I'm not particularly interested in a media player or homebrew games at all.  What I am interested in are emulators and "widgets" made by the decryption of things such as the vc games and the internet channel.  The wii's unique channel system makes for a very flexible platform on which to make smaller apps and try out smaller applications without the annoyance of having to burn things to a disc. 


And just for the record, I made this post simply to announce to everyone that the exploit was out in case anyone was interested, not to have half a dozen haters chime in and say how the wii sucks or homebrew on the wii is gonna suck.  Seriously?  You guys have nothing better to do?

[shmokes]

Gimme a break.  This is huge news for any console.  You think the day someone created the first exploit for Xbox he simultaneously unveiled Xbox Media Center or had MAME up and going on it?  HC didn't create a thread that said, "Wii HACKED!!! Go immediately to the store, buy a Wii, and load this exploit.  So Awesome!"  It's the first exploit.  It means development can begin.  Maybe it means you can play pirated games without doing a difficult solder job inside the Wii.  Maybe it means a million different things.  The Wii is hacked.  It's news.  It's REALLY BIG news. 

[slycrel]

Thanks for the update howard, if you hadn't said anything I'd not have known.  Here's looking forward to some real wii homebrew.   

[AcidArmitage]

can i play doom!? 

[lcddream]

it opens up the door for a possible custom firmware...

meaning zelda wouldn't be needed.

[shmokes]

Even if Zelda were already needed, do you have any idea how many millions of copies are already sold?  Closing the exploit in future pressings will have virtually no effect on this.

[shmokes]

I've never actually seen a non-Mike Tyson version of Punch Out -- except on the Virtual Console, and in the arcades, of course.

[ChadTower]

I've had a few over the years... it is rarer than the Mike Tyson version but not terribly so.  Neither are unusual if you're buying someone's NES/15 games lot at a yard sale.

[patrickl]

I just saw some progress on use of this hack on the PSX-Scene wii page.

GameCube Linux: Linux on Wii

24 Feb 2008: Long time, no see Although we haven't posted any news in the last 2 years, we have silently continued our work keeping the kernel patches up to date. With the latest 2.6.24 (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gc-linux/linux-2.6.24-gc.patch.gz) release we have added support for the USB Gecko (http://www.usbgecko.com/faq.htm) adapter as a console and terminal, so you can now logon into your gc-linux distro using minicom or HyperTerminal (TM). And last but not least, we have finally run natively Linux on the Nintendo Wii through Team Tweezers' twilight-hack (http://wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Twilight_Hack). We have released a small usbgecko-enabled Proof of Concept (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gc-linux/wii-linux-PoC-0.1.tgz) mini-distro to prove it. Did I say have fun?

and a Snes emulator for the Wii: New Snes9xGX build for Wii - Snes9xGx.wii 0.01b

[ChadTower]

So far all the Wii homebrew has been GameCube stuff ported over to run while the system is in 'wii-mode'.

That is how it should work.  They have to learn the quirks of compiling for a new platform before they try anything elaborate.  Known good source code is the standard way to do that.

[ChadTower]

You're not following what I said. 

Actually, I'm following what they said.  Of course I'm not using you as a source of information.  One never knows when you're being normal and when you're trolling or worse. 

[Samstag]

I'm leaning toward agreement with pinballjim.  Even that short quoted blurb made me think they're not running Wii native code.  Either that, or the Wii processor isn't signifigantly different from the GC (from a machine code and interface perspective).

It's still not clear if the exploit itself runs any real Wii code or if it's immeditately switching to GC mode.

[ChadTower]

Jim isn't following.

I didn't disagree with him.  I told him I am not using him as a source.

They likely are running "GC code" in the Wii's memory space.  That's not "wii mode", though, as there is only one CPU.  In order for that to be happening it either has to be emulating the GC, which we know isn't happening, or the Wii is using a beefier CPU that works in the same instruction set, or at least a backwards compatible one, as the GC.  That way they don't have to entirely recompile - they simply have to work in the Wii's expanded memory space in order to have access to the machine's full resources.

All of that has to be done before they can write "Wii native code", though here that really only likely means "code that does stuff that couldn't be done on the GC".  Test with code you know works - whether running as is or by recompiling - and prove the concept before trying to extend it.

[Silver]

Both GC and Wii use a custom PowerPC 750C* based processor, by all reports.

And based on the Wii's complete 100% backwards compatibility with GC titles, it would seem pretty logical that no emulation or recompiling is required to run GC code.

Personally, I would expect GC code to run in Wii mode, although I would also expect anomalies, e.g. the processor should be running at a faster clock speed, which could impact some homebrew etc...

[ChadTower]

I suppose it depends on whether the GC has anything in its address space that is custom done.  If it has any optimized routines - or just ref tables - hard in its address space, and the Wii does not in its "wii space", then some GC code would not run in "Wii mode".  The problem I'm having conceptually is the lack of detail of exactly what "GC mode" vs "Wii mode" means in terms of address space, bus access, and other system resources.  The only way having separate "modes", while still having a compatible CPU, makes a lot of sense on the surface is for them to have fully separate address spaces.  That does circumstantially point out that there may be some address space content the GC has that the Wii space does not.


EDIT:  thinking it through a bit, they could fix that with custom jump points at the instruction set level... but that is only worth the effort if you are jumping back and forth on very common functions or to access data that would be used all the time (or perhaps boot instructions).  That's how they got the Xbox - jump opcodes to fork the boot code.

[patrickl]

I don't get the debate. They are running code in Wii mode. Does it matter if they copied this code from a GC program or that they wrote it from scratch?

I guess there just isn't much difference between a GC and a Wii.

[ChadTower]

I don't get the debate. They are running code in Wii mode. Does it matter if they copied this code from a GC program or that they wrote it from scratch?

We can't say for sure given the level of specific knowledge of the Wii's architecture here.  Without that knowledge we can't even define "Wii mode" clearly enough to know the exact parameters.  There are clearly differences in available resources - but no one in this thread appears to know exactly why the GC has a separate address space from that of the Wii.  That is a critical bit of information in this context.

[patrickl]

I don't get the debate. They are running code in Wii mode. Does it matter if they copied this code from a GC program or that they wrote it from scratch?

We can't say for sure given the level of specific knowledge of the Wii's architecture here.  Without that knowledge we can't even define "Wii mode" clearly enough to know the exact parameters.  There are clearly differences in available resources - but no one in this thread appears to know exactly why the GC has a separate address space from that of the Wii.  That is a critical bit of information in this context.

Well it makes sense that the Wii can switch into a GC compatibility mode so that native GC code can run on it.

The hackers call what they achieved now native Wii mode (or whatever) and amongst each other they verfied that this is true. Apparently this was proteced by encryption before and now it no longer is (well it still is, but they found a workaround).

Not sure if it matters much, but at the very least it would enable homebrew to use the Wii controllers and the Wii flash memory access.

[ChadTower]

Well it makes sense that the Wii can switch into a GC compatibility mode so that native GC code can run on it.

Why?  If the CPU is a compatible instruction set there doesn't need to be a "mode".  It should just run.  There is some other reason, that we are not privy to, for the separation of address space.  That is abnormal logic bus architecture.

[Samstag]

There's apparently some difference in the modes, since GC mode shuts down the Wiimotes.  That's a pretty important distinction for homebrew.

[patrickl]

Well it makes sense that the Wii can switch into a GC compatibility mode so that native GC code can run on it.

Why?  If the CPU is a compatible instruction set there doesn't need to be a "mode".  It should just run.  There is some other reason, that we are not privy to, for the separation of address space.  That is abnormal logic bus architecture.

CPU and address space are not the only things that define a computer

[ChadTower]

CPU and address space are not the only things that define a computer

CPU and address space are the exact place to look for "why would they need to recompile" and "why are there modes given a single CPU and no emulation".

Samstag, does it actually send a shutdown signal to the Wiimotes, or does it just not communicate with them?  What happens if you're in a GC game and you press the power button on a Wiimote?  I'll have to try that tonight and see.  There is a difference between noncommunication and actually shutting down an external device.

[Samstag]

CPU and address space are not the only things that define a computer

CPU and address space are the exact place to look for "why would they need to recompile" and "why are there modes given a single CPU and no emulation".

Samstag, does it actually send a shutdown signal to the Wiimotes, or does it just not communicate with them?  What happens if you're in a GC game and you press the power button on a Wiimote?  I'll have to try that tonight and see.  There is a difference between noncommunication and actually shutting down an external device.

By shutting down I meant that communications halts.  The real shutdown at the controller automatically happens very shortly after they stop receiving a signal.  When you start a GC game, the only way out is a reset or power off at the console.

[patrickl]

CPU and address space are not the only things that define a computer

CPU and address space are the exact place to look for "why would they need to recompile" and "why are there modes given a single CPU and no emulation".

Well there could be a lot of differences. Maybe even the audio and video chips need to behave differently. The GC and Wii have different hardware. The controller (BT vs wired) and memory slots being the most obvious. Making sure the Wii can pretend it's a GC and run games without emulation is what makes it neccesary that it needs a mode where the machine acts like a GC. Why wouldn't that entail more than just restricting access to a bit of memory.

and yes when it goes in GC mode it does not come out of it on it's own. You get it out only by using the GC controller or the buttons on the Wii itself.

[ChadTower]

Well there could be a lot of differences. Maybe even the audio and video chips need to behave differently. The GC and Wii have different hardware. The controller (BT vs wired) and memory slots being the most obvious. Making sure the Wii can pretend it's a GC and run games without emulation is what makes it neccesary that it needs a mode where the machine acts like a GC. Why wouldn't that entail more than just restricting access to a bit of memory.

You are right - those are all potential issues.  They are issues that come later on in the homebrew dev cycle, though.  Gotta get code running before they worry about any of that.  Things have to happen in a reasonably certain order out of technical necessity.

The main issue here is the word "mode".  It has no specific definition - and that is why we have to figure out exactly what it means in the Wii architecture in order to make educated guesses rather than SWAGs.

[patrickl]

The people who came up with this hack say it's needed to run code with the Wii in "Wii mode". No matter if  we can exactly say what the difference between these modes is, there is a difference and Nintendo made it pretty hard to take the hurdle.

They can now run Linux on the Wii in Wii mode, so that should ultimately enable them to use the Wii controllers.

[Samstag]

They say a lot of things, but it's puzzling that nobody's providing any source code.

[Lilwolf]

Nintendo would probably go throught the code, figure out how they are doing it.... then the next patch it would stop working.

Its kinda cool.  But who would really want to hack a Wii?  The computer itself kinda sucks compared to the standard pc... Sure you would get access to the controllers, but you can do that on a PC now.

[BORIStheBLADE]

Nintendo would probably go throught the code, figure out how they are doing it.... then the next patch it would stop working.

Its kinda cool.  But who would really want to hack a Wii?  The computer itself kinda sucks compared to the standard pc... Sure you would get access to the controllers, but you can do that on a PC now.

wouldn't it be an ideal system to play all Nintendo's systems games?

[patrickl]

Yeah the SNES emulator sounds like a nice idea. haven't tried it yet myself, but still. Perhaps the mp3 player would be nice for some people too (if your DVD plaer doesn't do this already). Don't quite see the point of running linux on it, but I guess it's like a hackers wet dream to put linux on everything.

Not sure if it matters if you do this in GC mode.

[ChadTower]

They put linux on it because they can control linux - they have access to all system resources that way.

[patrickl]

They put linux on it because they can control linux - they have access to all system resources that way.

True, but what would you want to have control for? What would ultimately be an application that would run on the Wii needing Linux?

Like Lilwolf said, the Wii is not really impressive as a PC replacement. It's not like an Xbox where the hardware cost less than a comparable PC.

[ChadTower]

True, but what would you want to have control for? What would ultimately be an application that would run on the Wii needing Linux?

Hardware resources are controlled by the OS.  The Wii OS has security layers in place they haven't figured out yet - so to gain fuller control, they put in an OS they have thorough control over. 

Like Lilwolf said, the Wii is not really impressive as a PC replacement. It's not like an Xbox where the hardware cost less than a comparable PC.

They're not trying to make it a PC replacement.  They are trying to manipulate the physical resources available.  To do that they need an environment both familiar and fully open to them.  That is linux.


EDIT:  just thought of a better way of explaining it.  They do not intend for you to run linux on your Wii.  They are using linux as a rapid prototyping environment for developing software which will then be recompiled to be run in the native Wii OS for end users.

[patrickl]

Well I get all that and I don't think I'm disagreeing with you. It's more that I'm wondering if there actually is a useful goal (real life application) for hacking the Wii.

Maybe to turn it into a networked media streaming device like with the original Xbox.

Don't you think they are hacking it mostly to show that they can rather than that these hackers actually have a plan to make the Wii do things it doesn't do yet?

[ChadTower]

Well I get all that and I don't think I'm disagreeing with you. It's more that I'm wondering if there actually is a useful goal (real life application) for hacking the Wii.

I wouldn't mind it as a streamer like XBMC.  I'm thinking the most useful application would be opening up the VC emulators so you can plug in any roms.  Don't you think that would be useful?

[shmokes]

I'd say backups (aka piracy) is my first priority.  Emulators is probably second, but might be edged out by homebrew.  And third is whichever of those two isn't second.

[ChadTower]

Backups is already possible... you're probably never going to get a true softmod because the security is at the drive level.

[patrickl]

Well I get all that and I don't think I'm disagreeing with you. It's more that I'm wondering if there actually is a useful goal (real life application) for hacking the Wii.

I wouldn't mind it as a streamer like XBMC.  I'm thinking the most useful application would be opening up the VC emulators so you can plug in any roms.  Don't you think that would be useful?

Sure, that's why I posted the link to the SNES emulator.

On the other hand, AFAIK you can emulate SNES and N64 games already on the GC. Wouldn't that work with the Wii?

[ChadTower]

Sure, that's why I posted the link to the SNES emulator.

On the other hand, AFAIK you can emulate SNES and N64 games already on the GC. Wouldn't that work with the Wii?

Those are homebrew emulators.  The ones on the Wii OS are made by Nintendo... I'll bet they work better on the Wii than a homebrew would.

[Lilwolf]

Part of my question of why is that you can play homebrew gamecube games now once you get your wii hacked.   I didn't think there was much difference between them (just a second processor).  But for most things, it seems like gamecube would be enough.

I guess you wouldn't have to hack you wii... thats a bonus... But hacking you wii allows you to try games like 'ninjabread man' to see just how bad it is, before buying it