I hate my job and want to switch rant

[shmokes]

I liked my job a lot before leaving to come to law school.  There was just no more ladder to climb, and I wasn't making enough money.  Plus, as a network administrator, I was always threatened by technology making networks more and more self-repairing, and technologies allowing maintenance, repair and backup to be largely done remotely from an off-site location.  There would always be the temptation to outsource me to some faceless company that does remote network admin.  And as much as I loved my job, I would HATE HATE HATE to work for one of those companies where I'd end up being glorified telephone tech support.

[mccoy178]

I graduated in '01 with a Polisci degree and I started a pool business.   After four years of that, I decided that I didn't want to do that for the next 30 years.  I've been chipping away at it for the last few years and I am finally down my last quarter of student teaching.  I don't know how things work in WV Shardian, but I was able to go back to OSU and just take the classes to get my Technology Education licensure since I already had an undergrad.  So, in short, I will hopefully have started my teaching career before my 30th birthday and I will say that when I started four years ago, I would've never thought it possible.

EDIT:  Shardian, I also have a 6 month old at home and went to school at night.  My father in law gave me great advice a couple years ago.  He said, "Where do you want to be in two years?  How are you going to get there?  Once you figure it out, make some goals on how you plan to get there and make it happen."  I have to say that it worked.

[shardian]

I don't think I'll be doing law school. There are 2 things I absolutely know with a passion I will not fit into: Law and Medicine.

[ChadTower]

There is the other side of that coin as well:

"In 10 years, would you rather have been in class at night or spending time with your baby?"

When my kids were that small I chose time with them over going back to school.  I'm not sorry I did.  Eventually the kids will reach an age where they are indifferent to your being there at night.   They won't be changing week to week like they are for the first few years.  That's probably when I'll go back and finish up my degree.  Until then I come home at 6pm, have dinner with my family, help my kids with their homework, and put them to bed myself.  Sure, my career isn't where I want it to be, but my parenting is, and that is more important to me right now.

[shardian]

There is the other side of that coin as well:

"In 10 years, would you rather have been in class at night or spending time with your baby?"

When my kids were that small I chose time with them over going back to school.  I'm not sorry I did.  Eventually the kids will reach an age where they are indifferent to your being there at night.   They won't be changing week to week like they are for the first few years.  That's probably when I'll go back and finish up my degree.  Until then I come home at 6pm, have dinner with my family, help my kids with their homework, and put them to bed myself.  Sure, my career isn't where I want it to be, but my parenting is, and that is more important to me right now.

That's part of my problem with me hating work. I appreciate my family to the nth degree after losing our son. I can't stand not being there, and when my boss tells me I should put more hours in at work I feel like telling him to ---fudgesicle--- himself.

Any other job I got in the engineering industry would probably mean 50 hour or more work weeks. I just can't do that any more. That is why teaching is so incredibly attractive to me. That, and I like math ALOT and would love to teach it.

[mountain]

There is the other side of that coin as well:

"In 10 years, would you rather have been in class at night or spending time with your baby?"

When my kids were that small I chose time with them over going back to school.  I'm not sorry I did.  Eventually the kids will reach an age where they are indifferent to your being there at night.   They won't be changing week to week like they are for the first few years.  That's probably when I'll go back and finish up my degree.  Until then I come home at 6pm, have dinner with my family, help my kids with their homework, and put them to bed myself.  Sure, my career isn't where I want it to be, but my parenting is, and that is more important to me right now.

I made the same decision years ago when my kids were babies. I didn't want to live with the regret of not being there for my wife and kids. Now that they are 13 and 10, I bust ---my bottom--- at work so I can afford to send them to school in 5 years. 

[ChadTower]

Any other job I got in the engineering industry would probably mean 50 hour or more work weeks.

That is definitely true.

I just can't do that any more. That is why teaching is so incredibly attractive to me. That, and I like math ALOT and would love to teach it.

What makes you think teaching isn't a 50 hour week?

[shardian]

What makes you think teaching isn't a 50 hour week?

It can be. My mother-in-law is a counselor and she puts in a ton of hours...but she doesn't have to. She is just really inefficient and combine that with the fact she hates being home she is where she wants to be. You grade papers and such at home. I have a housewife at home who is 9 hours shy of a teaching degree herself that would be working with me on developing lesson plans, grading, creating tests, etc. Teaching is something me and the wife can do together. If she goes to work eventually, we could try to be at the same school. Teaching isn't something I have thought of half-cocked. It would be far less hours I put in now, and I know for a fact I can live comfortably off of a teachers salary.

I know that being a teacher is not a cakewalk. It scares me thinking of dealing with troubled kids who don't want to learn. I've tutored many whiny brats in math, but never dealt with a kid facing serious issues. Learning how to engage those kids is a challenge I really want to try and excel at. I had a few teachers in school who were amazing at getting trouble kids to participate - I was one of them in elementary and middle school. I remember each one of them vividly and respect them to this day. I would love to be like them and have a lasting impact on some kids lives. Besides, maybe kids would find this hobby more interesting than my current coworkers do.

[shardian]

hehe, I could be the "video game" teacher. Lesson plans involving classic arcade games, word problems on tests that are based in a game situation, etc, etc.

[shardian]

Just wait until you've got a classroom full of 16 year olds that are only thinking about sex and couldn't care less about math.  THAT'S what did my friend in.

My job's okay... I got the MBA and basically got my old boss's job.  Pay stinks, but it's still significantly more than I made at the last job (though don't let me overstate 'significantly')

Basically, there's no job out there that's both easy to get and fun to do and pays enough to keep you happy.  Best I ever did was 50% pay to work out of my house where I basically checked e-mail, answered the phone, and worked on pinball machines.

Yeah too bad that schools won't let you theme your lesson plans around sex. 

[ChadTower]

My main issue is that what I do is so freakin' abstract.  I can't even explain it to some software engineers, nevermind people who aren't in this field.  I never actually put my hands on anything - I'm either designing process, or implementing software lifecycle tools, or writing automation tying the two aforementioned pieces together.  I rarely see the apps I write all of this for - hell it would be illegal for me to be poking around some of them because the data is confidential.  The only way I have ever come up with of explaining to a layman what I do is that I write tools that software developers use.  I need to be able to hold something in my hand, work it around, and eventually show someone and say "I made/designed/fixed that".  There is pretty much zero satisfaction for me in what I do now.  I'm really good at it, but as the years go by, I find myself caring less and less and it is becoming more difficult to keep the quality level as high as possible.   

[CCM]

I need to be able to hold something in my hand, work it around,

There is pretty much zero satisfaction for me in what I do now. 

So, what exactly do you do for a living...   

[shardian]

I need to be able to hold something in my hand, work it around,

There is pretty much zero satisfaction for me in what I do now. 

So, what exactly do you do for a living...   

Heh, I needed that!

[ChadTower]

So, what exactly do you do for a living...   

 

When I was a kid my grandfather used to drive me around on sundays and show things he had built.  We'd drive past a building and he'd say "built that one, took about 7 months, two crews, we had trouble getting the bedrock cleared enough to put in a subbasement."  I always really enjoyed that.  I have nothing like that to show my kids.  Maybe someday I can tell them "You know how your friend Jimmy got busted for trying to buy Sudafed at 5 different pharmacies last week?  Daddy worked on the app that caught him."

Yay.   

[lokki]

Hi,
Work sucks, you may think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but eventually it will still suck.
the hard part is that you have realize that your job is not who you are, but what you do in order be able to do the things you want to do.
My suggestion would be to find a hobby (Build and Arcade Machine or something ) , find something outside of work that will make it worth it to put up with the crap. Also make sure you do your job (8hrs a day and leave the work behind when you go home and spend time with your familiy)

I'm in the same boat as you, work sucks, and it was hard to get up in the mornings to go to the office.  And I cannot afford to take the huge pay hit (about 50%) to get a different job. But things do get easier once you find something more important than work

[ClubNinja]

I've really wanted to contribute a ton to this conversation, but my demanding engineering job that I hate leaves me with very little time to think clearly about anything else

I want to go the teaching route as well, but I probably never will.  I've done volunteer after school math tutoring, paid after school math tutoring, and paid undergrad engineering teaching while in grad school.  Loved it.  About a year ago, I scheduled a meeting with our town's superintendent to discuss the concept of leaving engineering for the wonderful world of high school math.  He was thrilled, as people from industry who also have interest in teaching are almost always the most effective in schools.  The problem, at least where I live, is that even with a Masters degree, I'd have to take a 55% pay cut.  That would equate to moving my family to a cardboard box underneath an overpass.  And at this salary, to really do a good job at teaching, the hours put in to planning and preparation, along with follow-up on all lessons and assignments, all on top of the physical hours put into the classroom during the day would add up to somewhere well over the already more than 40 hour weeks I put in as it is.  So to teach, I could get paid half as much and work as hard or a little harder than I already do.  The personal fulfillment isn't worth that much.

I've also checked out the law school and MBA things.  With my engineering background, IP and patent law would be perfect, and even interesting.  As it's been noted, though, I don't want to work a 10 hour day, then drive into the city for night classes, and never see my family for 4 years.  While less drastic, an MBA falls into the same boat.  The return on investment isn't worth the lost "living" time.  As it is, I'll work 10-12 hours, come home to see the family, break out the laptop to do a little more work after bedtime, and only get paid for 8 of those hours each day.

Ultimately, I will also stick with what I'm doing for a while.  I don't love it, I usually don't even kinda like it, and I'm going to get screamed at in a meeting an hour from now; but I can heat my house, so I'll keep coming back.  It's unfortunately the norm I see among engineers in particular.

[ChadTower]

Ultimately, I will also stick with what I'm doing for a while.  I don't love it, I usually don't even kinda like it, and I'm going to get screamed at in a meeting an hour from now; but I can heat my house, so I'll keep coming back.  It's unfortunately the norm I see among engineers in particular.

Maybe I just need to go back to pure development.  I was much happier with one or two projects at a time.  Juggling 10 parallel projects in various stages of development with entirely different teams is killing me.

[shardian]

Quite honestly, I think I would be much happier at my job now if the boss would allow me to come in a half hour early, take a half-hour lunch, and then go home at 4. The big boss is old school and believes every single person should be here from 8-5. Of course to do that I actually end up here from 7:30 to 5:30. Then tack on a 35-40 minute drive on each end. I get to see my family for an average of  a whopping 3 hours a day during the week - assuming I neglect all of my chores and projects. 

I used to do sidework at home, but it wore me down quick starting a 10pm, working till 1, waking up at 5:30 and getting to work so I could do a bit more before my regular workday started. That ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- gets old real fast.

Honestly, I wouldn't be taking all that much of a pay cut of my base salary to be a teacher. The one thing I would miss is the unlimited overtime opportunity and freelance side work.

[mccoy178]

Why would you miss out on the side work?

[shardian]

Why would you miss out on the side work?

I would not have access to the software package that is necessary anymore. I "could" design without it, but it is a huge PITA to do.

[mccoy178]

Gotcha.  I decided to keep a small portion of my pool business and I plan to work in the summers with it.  If you decide to go the teaching route, maybe you can figure out some form of your work that you could use during those months off to produce more income.

[shmokes]

Heh . . . my  bad.  Since I never seriously considered going there I didn't look at it closely.  It was $11,000 per semester rather than per year (it's apparently gone up to $13,000 per semester now).

Well . . . if you wanna live in Utah you could always go to BYU.  It's actually ranked about 35th in the nation (that's pretty high).  They don't do resident/non-resident tuition, they do mormon/non-mormon.  The non-mormon tuition is under $20k per year, but the tuition for members of the church is $9,000 per year     It's seriously the deal of the century, if you don't mind weird rules like no shorts above the knees, and no drinking coffee on campus.  And being surrounded by ultra-conservative Mormons all the time.

At any rate, there are lots of law schools that cost less than $20k per year to attend. http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/tuition.php/1/asc/Tuition08

[Wade]

Well, I've been there.  A lot of it comes from being young I think.  Most older people I know are more satisfied than us fiesty young pups, and honestly every new job I have gets more and more pleasant, and I doubt it's JUST the job.

About what ChadTower says, well, that's more of a problem - imagine hating your job like you do but knowing you couldn't afford to switch.  You are early career so you really have FAR more options than most people.

BSME is a killer degree.  There's LOTS of great jobs even around here for that degree.  Get a job at the gas company, it's easy work, get paid well, some of our departments would allow flex time so you could work 4 10's and take every Friday off.

Everywhere I've ever worked paid tuition and they didn't have a contract to keep people there.  Who in their right mind would sign up for that... I know I sure wouldn't, nothing good could come out of a contract keeping you at a job.

My opinion... Change is good.  Go find a new job, even if it stinks it'll take you a couple of years to get tired of it.

Wade

[Wade]

Oh, I'm in an MBA program too with an infant, and I made the decision that she'd miss me a lot less before she's 3 than when she's older and actually wants to do things, play sports, whatever.  Plus, work pays for most of it and it's local through an accredited university, so I felt the opportunity might not always be available.  I DO really wish I didn't have to put the time into class, but it was a choice of the lesser of the evils.  And I'm pretty confident this will be my last degree until I'm close to retirement (have 2 degrees already).

Wade

[shardian]

BSME is a killer degree.  There's LOTS of great jobs even around here for that degree.  Get a job at the gas company, it's easy work, get paid well, some of our departments would allow flex time so you could work 4 10's and take every Friday off.

My opinion... Change is good.  Go find a new job, even if it stinks it'll take you a couple of years to get tired of it.

Wade

I'm fine with change really, it is the time in between that would be spent without insurance/income that bugs me.

I looked at the job postings for the gas company and the power company - nothing current that fits my bill. I have my EIT certification, so that would hopefully put me a leg above when an entry engineering job opens up. You have any engineering contacts at the gas co.? I would love to work at the gas co. - the pay would definitely be an upgrade.

[Truecade]

It sounds to me that you dislike your boss more than your job.  I have a degree in industrial engineering, and over my career I've learned that I can live with a bad job (for quite a a while) if I have a good boss.  There were a couple roles I've had within my company that I really liked, but my boss was such a pompous ass that I was ready to quit. 

I've done the 60+ hour work weeks, no time off on weekends, etc. for months and although I hated it, it was a good learning experience.  I now know that I will no longer tolerate more than 50 hour weeks for an extended period of time and I have let my bosses know that I will look for a different job if that is their their expectation.  There are always times when extra hours are needed to get the job done, and I have no problem putting in long hours.  I do have a an issue when an organization is understaffed and the workload is out of control.

So.... I have a couple suggestions for you.  First, see if there is another position in your company and your could work for a different boss.  Second, I suggest polishing up your resume and handing it out to the local recruiting agencies in your area.  These people get paid to fill positions at companies and they are motivated to find you a job.   You can tell them your experience, your salary requirements, and the type of jobs you are looking for and they will do the rest.  My company recently laid off 25% of its local workforce, and I handed my resume to a few recruiters "just in case".    They set up three different interview offers within a couple weeks.  Seriously, check them out.  They may even be able to find you a much higher paying job that you would enjoy. 

One last thing...... I can relate to wanting to go down the teaching route, specifically in math.  It is something I would love to do and I know I would be really good at it.  But the reality is that you would likely be just as frustrated if you became a teacher, only with less take home pay.  Both my parents were high school teachers, and the one piece of advice they gave me was don't go into teaching for the money (duh).  Teaching really is a thankless profession, and you'll catch just as much shiet from disgruntled parents as you do from your engineering customers.

[shmokes]

I don't think I'll be doing law school. There are 2 things I absolutely know with a passion I will not fit into: Law and Medicine.

I hate to belabor the point, but definitely make sure that your passion is based on the reality of lawyering, vs. what people commonly think it means to be a lawyer.  In other words, know with a passion that you would not fit into an attorney's shoes because you don't enjoy research, but not because you aren't interested in working on cases or doing litigation, or because you think lawyers are slimy.  VERY VERY few lawyers work a day of their lives inside a court room.

If you think you would dislike the work, then absolutely, don't do it.  Money can only go so far toward making up for an miserable job.  But if you're thinking of going back for a graduate degree I'd be sure that you have a realistic idea of what being a lawyer would be like before dismissing it.

[Singapura]

I agree with shmokes. Before I went to law school I never would have dreamed of doing that, or working as a "suit". I started out studying Japanese but came quickly to the conclusion that there are lots of Japanese speaking the language better AND have secondary skills. So I switched to law school, started working for a bank and never looked back. An MBA is a major time consumer (ask my ex-wife  ) but I think it's worth it and not just for the money. If you're interested in what makes companies tick, an MBA will teach you that. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who's fresh out of college because business experience helps a lot.

[quarterback]

I went into Engineering because I thought I could make more money than a teacher, but realistically it isn't much more unless you are a high ranking VP or something.

Where do you live that being a teacher means a higher salary than being an engineer?  California?

Every single one of my undergrad engineering major friends were making more right out of college than my mom was making after teaching her whole life.  Okay, that's a slight exaggeration and sure, times have changed since my mom was a teacher and salaries have gone up, but it shocks me that you'd make more as a first time teacher than you would as a mechanical engineer.

[quarterback]

Answer to my own question:  West Virginia

According to the the American Federation of Teachers, in 2004-05 West Virginia's beginning teacher salary was $26,704

I guess the market for Mechanical Engineers must have changed in the last 15 years if that's equal to or greater than the pay you're making now, because that's less than my engineering friends were making back in the 90s right out of college

[paigeoliver]

I may have missed some details here but if the job isn't requiring you to put in mega-hours then simply stop caring. You would be surprised how much that can do for your job satisfaction.

If they are making you put in mega-hours then I suggest jumping ship. An entire life spent in an office isn't a life at all.

[shardian]

Oh I would definitely make less as a teacher, but the drop wouldn't mean a change in lifestyle by any means. We live on a pretty tight budget and the cost of living here is pretty darn low compared to other areas of the country. Yes, the offers I was receiving out of college were downright insulting.

I work for a smaller company, so when I saw boss, there are several people who can fall into that category. First there is the guy who is the unofficial design manager. Everything runs thru him, and he is a really cool guy. Then there is the Design Manager. He is a funny little man who is about to retire. He doesn't really do anything anymore, but is a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. He throw's his weight around occasionally to remind people he is still there, but is harmless really. The VP and Pres are father and son. Everyone likes the VP, and he will take over as President probably in the next 2-3 years. The President is hardcore old-school. He comes from the age in which companies owned their employees and you lived your life to serve the company. He can be a nice guy, but he is also just as likely to come unhinged and be an ass. I don't care for him and I don't think he cares much for me. It's a generational thing, and he just can't understand the fact that my generation realizes family is WAY more important than work. He has always held a grudge against me from when I was off for a month to be with our son in the NICU, and I also took time off when my wife was in and out of the hospital for our second child. Maybe it's a jealousy thing, because he chose work over his family in the same situation when he was my age? I don't know.
Still, I very rarely interact with the President. The only "boss" I interact with on a regular basis is the design manager and the guy who does the design managers job. I'm cool with both of them, and I outright respect the latter and want to do good by him.

And Paige, I've been doing the "not care" thing for a while now. Living in denial is just making me miserable.

Scmokes, it is definitely 100% the material that I have no interest in, same as medicine.

[Wade]

Eventually, you'll have interest in what you think will give you the best career.

For now, it sounds like you need to polish your resume and get a job at the gas company.  You'd probably start out making significantly more than you make now, you'd have better hours, and lower stress.  You'll just end up getting bored after a few years, but boredom definitely isn't the worst thing.  I'll give some of my friends who still work there a call and see if they can find a way in for you.

Wade

[shardian]

Eventually, you'll have interest in what you think will give you the best career.

For now, it sounds like you need to polish your resume and get a job at the gas company.  You'd probably start out making significantly more than you make now, you'd have better hours, and lower stress.  You'll just end up getting bored after a few years, but boredom definitely isn't the worst thing.  I'll give some of my friends who still work there a call and see if they can find a way in for you.

Wade

THANKS!!

[Wade]

THANKS!!

Stuff like that makes me wish I wasn't such a jackass on forums, but then I realize the only one doing anything somewhat in the same field as me is bokster (boyster?  whatever) and he's just as much as an a-hole as me.

Good luck getting into oil/gas companies.  They all want 3 years experience in their field and entry level jobs are hard to come by.  If I had been willing to move to California I had a shot at a marketing job for one of them, but that was as far as I ever got.  :/

There's very much a 'good ol boy' mentality with some of the companies, so having an inside track is probably going to be very helpful.

I wouldn't extend that offer to anyone on the forum complaining about his job - I also know Shardian personally.

Around here, there may not be frequent openings at the gas companies, but they don't require experience.  I and many people I worked with at gas companies just walked on.

BTW, pinballjim, what field do you work in?

Wade

[boykster]

I shuffle papers for scientists.

Not even close to what I do.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioinformatics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheminformatics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_chemistry

It's b-o-y-k-s-t-e-r

and nobody's as big of an arsehole as you

[boykster]

- double post -

[CheffoJeffo]

BTW, pinballjim, what field do you work in?

I shuffle papers for scientists.

Somehow, I suspect that being a poorly-paid paper shuffler isn't the best source for career advice ... 

[CheffoJeffo]

Somehow, I suspect that being a poorly-paid paper shuffler isn't the best source for career advice ... 

Glass houses, my friend.   

I haven't offered any advice -- I have little to offer as I am in a totally different position than the OP.

I hate that I have to work, but since I do, I do work that I find rewarding. Even though I have to put in a lot of hours, I have structured things so that I am with the kids when they are at home and awake. And since nobody owns more of the company than I do, it's a waste of time to ---smurfette--- about the boss.

[boykster]

Not even close to what I do.......

Yeah, but you're the only one that would possibly know of any open position I was qualified for

I think there's a sanitation engineer position available in my building, should I forward your resume?