I just bought a game not in KLOV ???

[Stobe]

I just picked up a old arcade machine called "Dog Fight".  Its not listed in KLOV (there is a "dog fight" listed, but it is a color game from the 80's, this is a B&W from the 70's)

I found a flyer for the upright (mine is a cocktail).

http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=2482

but I can't seem to find any other information about it.

The cocktail table is very unique looking.

Does anyone know anything about this game?  Has anyone seen another cocktail setup like this?

Thanks,
Stobe

(included pic courtesy of craigslist ad, not my kid)

[northerngames]

nice looking desighn I am not a coacktail fan either but that one is the best shaped desighn I have seen yet.

I have never heard of it either you may have found a very rare collector piece.

does it work?

[JimmyU]

It also doesn't look like it's in MAME either.  I wonder if it's all IC's or if there any ROM's in there.

[ChadTower]

A b/w game from that era is probably all discrete TTL.  Not something MAME does.  It will have ICs and ROMs but no CPU architecture.

[Stobe]

I bought it non-working.

The owner (since 1979) said the "bullets" disappeared first, then the planes disappeared.  I'm guessing the crt slowly went on it but first I need to look into the ac wiring.  At some point he installed a light switch underneath the cab to function as an on/off switch for the game (3 prong cord comes in through bottom, goes through light switch, and feeds transformer, etc).  Plugging it in late last night when I got it unloaded popped my GFCI in my "gameroom", and at quick glance, the wires going from the 3 prong cord to the light switch are green and white!?!  I'm no electrician, but I know enough to know that it is not ideal.

I'll have to look into it more tonight (with a clearer head) and maybe snap a few pics inside.

-Stobe

[ChadTower]

It should have popped your GFCI so be glad you have one on that circuit.  The GFCI detects an imbalance between hot and neutral - meaning current is leaking somewhere outside the circuit.  The desc sounds like the guy is feeding neutral and ground together but not hot...

[shardian]

Sounds like he got my neighbor to do his wiring.
She asked me to come help her wire her lamppost on Christmas eve, and once I got there I noted that she had just started randomly connecting wires to other wires, regardless of color.

[ChadTower]

Sounds like he got my neighbor to do his wiring.
She asked me to come help her wire her lamppost on Christmas eve, and once I got there I noted that she had just started randomly connecting wires to other wires, regardless of color.

That's when you tell her she has to wire the pit bull into the circuit to get the most brightness on her lamp.

[Stobe]

It should have popped your GFCI so be glad you have one on that circuit.  The GFCI detects an imbalance between hot and neutral - meaning current is leaking somewhere outside the circuit.  The desc sounds like the guy is feeding neutral and ground together but not hot...

Yup, that was my guess.  Again, I haven't looked too far into it, so I am just going by what I saw.

What puzzled me is that he's been using the game like that for a long time.  The way he talked about it, the light switch was put in a long time ago, and it has been playable until recently.  The guy was selling it fairly cheap, so he had no reason to lie about it.

(maybe his house was wired equally wrong??) lol

-Stobe

[ChadTower]

It might actually operate that way... but anything properly connected to common ground would be live, if I'm picturing it correctly.  Things like a metal CP if it had had one.  I'm thinking this guy was very lucky it was a wooden cocktail without much exposed metal.

[shardian]

Always, always, always, always install a switch inline with the hot wire.
 

[SavannahLion]

I've seen that table or something looking like it once before. Year and years ago. It was part of a private collection at a lodge comprised almost entirely of Atari cabinets, Tempest, Football, Pong and, what I assume are bootleg versions of the game, such as 4-player Pong(?). Some of the games, I still haven't identified from memory.

Unfortunately, that particular table, from my memory, was relegated to an end table complete with doilies and flowers. From what I recall from what the guy told me back then, that cabinet also died the same death. ---Cleveland steamer--- started disappearing and then one day completely failed. The guy wasn't into repairing the cabinets I guess so his wife simply turned it into what it was. (The Tempest cab died a horrible death years later when sawdust drifted inside during a renovation and short circuited the cabinet. After that, the entire collection was moved and I never truly learned what happened to it.) Unfortunately, my memory might not be accurate enough to figure out if it's exactly the same cabinet or something very similar.

I say, revert the obvious changes back to factory stock or rewire the switch so it makes logical (and safe) sense. Good luck ont he troubleshooting and repairs. Let us know how it turns out.

[Stobe]

Well, that's what I get for posting something after a very short look (and a longish road trip to pick it up)

Actually....the thing appears to be wired up correctly.  The green and white that I saw are jumpered across the switch, and the light switch is breaking the hot (black) wire.

I had it plugged into a power strip, plugged into another power strip into the wall last night, and I'm guessing now the power strips were the culpret.  After plugging it straight into a dedicated outlet, it powered up fine.

So now I have sound (loud sound!!!).  I have the B&W tube glowing bright white (behind the plastic overlay of sky, clunds, etc), and I'm sure I have good controls.  No score is displayed on top (which I think is supposed to be a-la pong) and no "sprites" (best word I can come up with).  I don;t have the joys hooked up right now, and its too loud to fiddle with any more tonight (I could unplug the speaker, but oh well).

So now what

[SavannahLion]

In retrospect, I'm thinking the cabinet I mentioned isn't Dog Fight. I don't recall seeing those types of joystick on it. But my memory is kind of mixed up with another flying game that sported flight and throttle sticks. But that cabinet looks awfully damn close to the one I remember.

You're doing everything I would do. I would start by studying the IC's and chasing leads back. You've got sound. You're likely to have controls. So I would figure out and test the monitor to exclude any problems from that area.

But um.... Is a monitor supposed to light bright white like that?

[Stobe]

But um.... Is a monitor supposed to light bright white like that?

Your guess is as good as mine.  I can tell you that the overlay looks real nice with the solid white background.  But I was originally guessing the planes would be white, so that would not work, would it? 

I wish I could find a better screen shot of the game so I could compare.

Thanks,
Stobe

[ChadTower]

How exactly does wood dust short circuit anything?

Stobe, pull the monitor and get it working independently of the cabinet.  My Tank II thread might help, I'm in the process of doing the same with a similar game right now.

[SavannahLion]

How exactly does wood dust short circuit anything?

Who knows. That was the explanation I was given

Ask the guy who fried the Tempest cab. Maybe moisture built up around the cabinet one cold night and the wood dust absorbed and trapped it. It never evaporated even when the cab was brought to room temp. Maybe there were metallic particles in the wood dust. It was, after all, during a remodeling so there was likely a lot of work being done with metals such as the floor grid, some of the framework, wiring, ductwork, etc. Dry wall might play a part as well. Maybe it got banged around during the remodling and they simply blamed it on the wood dust. 

[ChadTower]

Many people say "short circuit" whenever anything electric or electronic fails... a random short circuit is actually pretty rare.  They just don't know what else to say.

[shardian]

Many people say "short circuit" whenever anything electric or electronic fails... a random short circuit is actually pretty rare.  They just don't know what else to say.

hehe, short circuits are pretty hard to miss. There is usually a pretty good fireworks display.

[SavannahLion]

ChadTower, I really don't know. To begin with, I never had to chance to inspect the internals of the cabinet myself. For all I know, someone could have had too much to drink and urinated on the circuit board one night. Here is what happened. Tempest and another cab worked prior to the remodeling. The owner didn't bother to cover or move the cabinets. A lot of renovations were done. After the work, both cabinet are dead. A query to the owner prompted the "sawdust" answer. Want a better answer? You can track down the owner, assuming they're even alive, and ask them yourself.

shardian, that kind of comment coming from you? C'mon, you know perfectly well what a short circuit
is and it doesn't always imply, "a pretty good fireworks display."

[ChadTower]

Erm, did you think we were insulting you or something?   

[SavannahLion]

Erm, did you think we were insulting you or something?   

I had this horrid vision of this turning into a PBJ argument... with me as PBJ. 

[Stobe]

Stobe, pull the monitor and get it working independently of the cabinet.  My Tank II thread might help, I'm in the process of doing the same with a similar game right now.

Tanks!  (I mean thanks) Chad.  I read through your post, but need to follow some more of the links.  I've got plenty of composite output devices that would be easy to hook up to test the monitor (Jakks plug-n-plays, etc).  But I was not sure whether the 15Khz B&W monitor would be able to show the standard composite video.  I'm pretty sure I found a schematic for the Motorola monitor, and I have a scope I can borrow from work if needed.

But I may check the output of the PCB first.  I have one of those handy-dandy 15KHz -> TV adapters that I could try to display the board's composite video on a TV first to see if the monitor is actually getting any video input.  I definately have HV getting to the monitor.

-Stobe

[ChadTower]

If you follow the link to the monitor thread in the monitor forum it will show you exactly how to power the monitor on a test bench and how to get a composite signal into the monitor.  Ken Layton was a great help there.

[northerngames]

dunno if it is the same but here is another one that is kinda weird

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dog-fight-arcade-game_W0QQitemZ160199783868QQihZ006QQcategoryZ13716QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Level42]

That's an EM machine. Not a videogame.

[SavannahLion]

Yeah, those crop up once in a while. Someone locally was selling a working EM car racing game, but were asking a bit too much for it. Someone else was selling a non-working EM haunted house shooting game, but it was probably missing too many parts to be a worthwhile project

I've been toying with the idea of snagging one when they pop up, if for no other reason than as a discussion piece.