video card issues with DOS

[joshlindem]

*****As the main post of this section of the forum states, be descriptive, and so I shall.*****

I recently received an arcade cabinet over Christmas.  It has buttons, joystick, speakers... and that's about it.  I'm building the rest myself from a computer and TV.  I am new to the whole building an arcade machine, and have been doing a lot of reading on the internet and through this forum and already learning a lot and helping me understand what I will need to do as I keep going forward.  But I've already run into my first, possible speed bump.

Computer Setup:
     AMD Duron 1200 Mhz Motherboard
     384MB
     40GB HardDrive
     SoundBlaster (PCI)
     ATI Video Card (PCI)   -> breakdown of my video card http://www.xpcgear.com/pwrclrrv6pa3.html

I'm planning on running DOSMAME, but before I get to that I want to make sure the hardware I have will do what I want it to.  I set up my computer and connected it via 'video out' connector to my small 14" Citizen TV which has a "Video In" connector.  Happy day as I booted up the computer I could see the boot screen coming up on my small 14" TV screen.  The only problem was that it was 'flipping' the vertical very badly to the point where I could barely make out what was on the screen.

Please understand that I plan on using a larger, normal sized TV for my cabinet, but did this as an initial test to see if my video card would output.  My other larger TV (not currently in my possession) also has a "Video Out" connector.

Is this normal during the boot process?  Once I get some sort of front end MAME program running, will it be fine for the front end and for playing the games?

Can someone offer some suggestions and help?

[northerngames]

your other tv would do the same more then likely.

you would need to either adjust your vertical hold or try changing your pc resolution to 640X480 or smaller since it is a tv.

16-bit color and 32-bit color may also play a role in it but I'm not sure on this part.

[joshlindem]

>>>your other tv would do the same more then likely.<<<

shoot.  that's what I was afraid of.

But I'm confused now, how does one change the resolution in DOS? or in the Boot prompt for that matter?
And if the TV doesn't have a V-hold option on it I'm screwed?

I haven't gotten as far yet as installing the Mame front end or the ability to play games yet.  At the moment I'm just seeing this problem during the initial boot.

[BobA]

You might want to look at advancemame to better control your video card under DOS.

[ncflagg]

But I'm confused now, how does one change the resolution in DOS? or in the Boot prompt for that matter?
And if the TV doesn't have a V-hold option on it I'm screwed?

I haven't gotten as far yet as installing the Mame front end or the ability to play games yet.  At the moment I'm just seeing this problem during the initial boot.

You can make the "font" size bigger in DOS with this command:

mode=co80              <-----(The 1st is the letter o and the second is the number 0) Short for Columns 80

You may need to do a clearscreen command also:

cls

You can add the mode command to your c:\autoexec.bat if it works.

[Kevin Mullins]

Happy day as I booted up the computer I could see the boot screen coming up on my small 14" TV screen.  The only problem was that it was 'flipping' the vertical very badly to the point where I could barely make out what was on the screen.

At the moment I'm just seeing this problem during the initial boot.

So does it continue to boot and then stabilize?

Keep in mind that whatever hardware you plan to use has to have drivers and such to allow it to work in DOS. (including Video Out functions)
BobA kinda hinted on that...... basically even if you have a video card with video out, those functions may not be properly available in DOS until something like Windows boots up and takes over. So you may have to research something like advancemame or other DOS utilities to help with that. (especially if you plan to use DOSMAME)

[Justin Z]

Just want to reiterate what Kevin said.

In order to get a computer to work with DOS and hook onto my HDTV with an S-Video cable, I had to search far and wide for a video card that was from the DOS era so I'd know for sure it would work properly in DOS without any drivers loaded.

I found one but it took me quite some time, and it's far from high-powered.  Of course, to play old DOS games I don't need it to be, but the more power the better when it comes to MAME.

If you want I can try to figure out what the heck video card it is.  I've long since forgotten.

[joshlindem]

HELP!!!!!!!!

Ok, so I've gotten it to the point where my computer appears to be set up for the most part.  It loads up, has all the necessary software, and well, so far so good.  My biggest issue right now is the video quality on the TV.

To re-iterate...
My Computer is:
     AMD Duron 1200 Mhz Motherboard
     384MB
     40GB HardDrive
     SoundBlaster (PCI)
     ATI Video Card (PCI)   -> breakdown of my video card http://www.xpcgear.com/pwrclrrv6pa3.html

My TV is:
     Hitachi
     Model# CT2043B
     Serial# S1A006144
     120V   60Hz    115W

The Vertical hold on the TV won't stop flipping.  Originally I said I had attempted this on my small 14" TV, but the same problem happens on the big TV.  It flips and I notice there's no color.
I did hook my DVD player up to the TV and it came up full screen and in color, so I know the TV is working just fine through the Video In port.

So I'm guessing I'm going to be told it's my video card.  But is there nothing I can do?

For my software I am using (planning on) AdvMenu + DMame. (unless someone knows for  a fact that AdvMame will work just as well in pure DOS environment.)
I attempted to run through the AdvCfg program last night and no matter what option I chose, it resulted in...could not display configuration screen and goes back to DOS prompt.

I'd do custom settings for AdvCfg but I'm going to have to look up my TV online to see if I can find those exact settings it needs. Not sure where to look... but I'll give it a try.

Anyways, that's my dilemma. Suggestions? Comments? Help?

*Addition*
Just thought I'd add a couple things...
1) I am using the Video Out option on the video card
2) I am going to sit down and attempted AdvMame tonight instead of DMame.
3) The problem persists past the boot screen.  At one point, with a Mame Boot CD, I was able to see the Mame screen stuff on my monitor and my screen continued to flicker.
4) The back of the TV does have a vertical hold dial, but changing it made no difference on the screen.
5) In the AdvCfg I kept trying to go with the TV (NTSC) option.

[sarge]

Is there a jumper on the video card to switch from PAL to NTSC?  I have a radeon 9600 that does.  It almost sounds like your using the wrong video format to your TV.

[joshlindem]

honestly, I don't know, but I will check tonight.  Didn't think to look for that.

[northerngames]

also google your make and model monitor to find out what type of display settings it accepts and what HRZ it like's.

[joshlindem]

also google your make and model monitor to find out what type of display settings it accepts and what HRZ it like's.

I've been attempting that today.... with little to no luck.  I find a number of sites that want to sell me the original manual or my remote codes, but nothing on that info that I kinda need.

[joshlindem]

I need a 2nd opinion for fear of wrecking my video card.

As I've said, the video on the screen keeps flipping up and down badly.  So tonight I'm going to try (2) things:

1) Check to see if there's a jumper on the video card that is incorrectly set to PAL instead of NTSC.

2) If no jumper, I came across this post in a Linux forum that sounds like the exact same problem I'm having.  But just trying to see if others think this may fix my issue or not.  Here's the discussion link. http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/radeon-7000-tv-out-242029/

**update**
ok, my last addition to this post today until I can test things out tonight.  But I feel it nessessary to keep adding so those that have the same issues understand what is being done.

Before actually flashing the BIOS I came across one more website that was very in-depth about ATI cards and how there are some troubles with them.  http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon-tv-out/  It provides a link to a program I've now downloaded which will enable me to open the ATI card's settings and change them as needed (ie: Pal/NTSC, Hz setting, write down clock speeds, etc)  This may prove to be the biggest helper, if it works!
I'll try this tonight and see what happens.

[Ummon]

I think the sync signal may be off. However, first, with Advancemame did you you load the drivers?

[joshlindem]

Major Problem fixed for my ATI!!!

1) there are no jumpers on my video card.

2) I downloaded a program called "Flashrom" http://downloads.rojakpot.com/download.php?file=46.  It's DOS based and has to be used after you boot up your PC using a BootDisk.

**warning, do following steps at your own risk**
-  type "flashrom -i" to identify which slot your card is in.  If it's the only one it should be 0.
-  type "flashrom -s 0 backup.bin" to backup your current video card rom which I saved back to a floppy.
-  Back on my other Windows box I inserted the floppy disk, called up the program RADEDIT http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Video-Tweak/RadEdit.shtml.
-  Then load up your backup rom you created.
-  Change the setting from PAL to NTSC (PAL was set to default on boot)
-  Save your new rom with a slightly different name (ie: backup2.bin) to your floppy disk
-  put floppy disk back into your Mame computer
-  type "flashrom -p 0 backup2.bin -f"
-  remove floppy disks and reboot.

And suddenly my TV is showing the boot screen perfectly and is showing color correctly.  Granted, compared to my LCD monitor it's a slight fuzzy, but it's definitely ok.

[joshlindem]

Still need help though.

Getting the TV to work was a major hurdle out of the way.  And I was very happy to have that work. But I'm still having issues because;

1) I don't have the original manual for my Hitachi TV.  So I don't know the exact settings that it needs to be set at for the video configuration

2) I keep attempting to run ADVCFG, and I choose all the USA (NTSC) TV options, but at the end it says it can't display configuration images.... or something like that and faults out to the DOS prompt.

3) So, keep pushing past #2, I than attempt to run ADVMAME MSLUG2.  But this comes back with an error saying I don't have default_video v/h/z.  So I go into advmame.rc and I don't even see that line so I add the default settings for TV as indicated in the ADVMAME intructions.
Now when I type ADVMAME MSLUG2....  nothing happens.  It just sits there as if waiting for something... and after 10min I figure it's not working and reboot.

So now what?  I kinda thought that advmame was supposed to work better.  Did I do something wrong?

[joshlindem]

I'm still banging my head into a wall 

I see the computer's boot up sequence on the TV, I see the MAME logo screen, and I see the MAME MPG that runs, and then I even see the ArcadeOS menu program running with the 3 default games.  I can move around and see the different screenshots, etc.  My problem is when I attempt to run one of those games.  I press "1" on my keyboard and it says "running gamename".  After about 10-15sec I think.... than the screen goes black.  I get nothing.  I am assuming that the game is running in the background, but I don't see anything on the TV any longer.
When I initially start the ArcadeOS bootcd installtion, I did choose that I am running a VGA card with output to TV & TV....... in fact I've gone through the installation 6 times.  4 times was to choose a different monitor setting, the other 2 times were to try a different version of dmame (v100 and then v79)

I've attempted to run ADVMAME, but when I run the ADVCFG program at the very last part is says it can not run the configuration screen and boots me back to the DOS prompt.

Kinda lost at this point.  Is there a setting I can go and change?  Should I go and change my video card ROM again, so that it outputs lower than 60Hz if possible?
And yes, initially I had to modify the video card Rom and reflash it because the video-out port, on default, was booting with PAL settings, and I require NTSC.  But I do remember that by default it outputs 60Hz... I may be able to go back in and lower it.  Would that help, or could I wreck my TV?

[SirPeale]

Can you run a game from DOS prompt?

[Ummon]

You know that tv-out isn't supported in Advancemame. It's hidden in the documentation. Just try regular MAME and make sure you have the mame ini set accordingly.

[joshlindem]

Can you run a game from DOS prompt?

I tired that again, and let it sit for a moment.  The cursor was just sitting there blinking after I tried to run a game manually.  After a few moments I get a series of "green text" which is:

Int 0x31 at eip=215c6c3; flags=3246 eax=00000300 ebx=00000010 ecx=00000000 edx=ffffff00 esi=025b3010 edi=03f9f768 ebp=04023628 esp=04023618 cs=a7 ds=af es=b7 fs=bf gs=bf ss=b7 error=0006

And now it's just back at the DOS prompt again.

[joshlindem]

 

ok, so another week goes by and another bruise appears on my forehead. 

I've used (3) different computers now, but using the same Hitachi TV, video card, and sound card.
Everything works from bootup/POST, I see the pretty MAME logo screen, I hear the fun MAME MPG, and then ArcadeOS menu pops up and I hear the brief music file play there as well.  Everything works up to the point of actually playing a game.
Once you attempt to play a game the screen flickers and than goes black.

I have attempted to break into DOS and attempt to play a single game manually.  Same problem.  Even if I delete the CFG file and run the game with a "no sound" option.

This weekend I will attempt a couple different things.

1) Attempt a couple different video cards.  I have another PCI video card that I can try, and I believe I have one motherboard that will allow for an AGP video card.  Perhaps it's not outputting to the TV properly?  Of course the main PCI card I've been trying it ATI... do I hear correctly that we have issues with ATI?

2) Attempt using different monitor devices.  I have a large 42" Plasma.  I could connect my "video-out" cable into the TV and see if that makes a difference.  The other idea is to connect through my computer monitor and attempt to do everything through there to see if I can get it working.

3) I've been using a PCI Creative Labs sound card.  I'm going to see if I can track down another PCI sound card to try.  I've told that onboard sound is out of the question, is this correct?


I guess I'm thinking that I'm not the only one that must have had/have these issues.  Can anyone suggest or help?
I've gotten so far and have been getting this feeling of "it'll never work".