Neighborhood problem turns violent

[ChadTower]

No one is in 100% control of their animal at all times.  Not a dog, a horse, a gerbil.  Never.  Free will exists in all of them.

[tommy]

I strongly erg you guys to watch this show if you have time, I swear it will change a lot of your ideas about dogs.

If you would only to listen to one thing I have to say, listen to this, watch it.

This is the video.


http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/video_preview_1.html

[shardian]

Holy crap Tommy. None of us CARE what you or other responsible dog owners do in your own home. A "Dog Whisperer" is absolutely worthless when it comes to dealing with OTHER PEOPLES DOGS that are on MY PROPERTY OR LOOSE IN PUBLIC in a threatening manner.

As with all rose tinted glasses owners, you are completely not getting what the PROBLEM is. Pit Bulls CAN BE DANGEROUS when UNRESTRAINED IN PUBLIC due to their nature.  The keyword is PUBLIC. Even your precious dog would be a THREAT to the PUBLIC if he were to start running around all the time.

[tommy]

You just don't get it, if all people were like these people and wanted to care about their dog there would be no problems. These are dog owners trying to fix their dogs issues and these are the kind of dog owners you want to live near.

I can't see what you're getting so angry about, you're beyond help and everyone around you is in trouble.

Watch the video, mr know it all who knows nothing, shardian.

Shardian you don't even want to fix the problem, all you want to be able to do is sit in your little house in your perfect or imperfect world and be able to point your finger at these dogs, YOU need to educate yourself and want to be educated.

[ChadTower]

You just don't get it, if all people were like these people and wanted to care about their dog there would be no problems.

You can say that about any crime or abuse. 

If only everyone followed the rules and had the community's best interests at heart...

[tommy]

Watch the video and get back to me. You guys obviously did not watch and your post show that by stuff you wouldn't say if you did watch it.

[Samstag]

I don't see how those videos would help Shardian.  Even if he were able to approach the dog I don't think it has any ears left to whisper into.

[CCM]

Shardian you don't even want to fix the problem, all you want to be able to do is sit in your little house in your perfect or imperfect world and be able to point your finger at these dogs, YOU need to educate yourself and want to be educated.

WTF!!

How the hell is Shardian supposed to fix the problem of his neighbors pit bulls running wild, save killing them??  Is he supposed to steal the dogs and ship them off to Ceasar Milan, or send them to you since you are the pit bull whisperer? 

Shardian doesn't need to educate himself about pit bulls, he doesn't own one.  All he needs to be concerned about is keeping his family safe!

As it's been said before, you are the one that doesn't want to fix the problem of bad owners.  You are such a pro- pit bull guy, why don't you want to fight to save your breed.  You should be the most outraged at these stories of bad pit bulls, but all you want to do is sit back and say my pit bull is perfect...

You take any view that doesn't match yours as a personal insult.  Maybe you are the best pit bull trainer in the world and maybe I could come into your house and be completely safe around YOUR dog.  The problem isn't you or your dog, it's all the bad owners out there.   It's these dogs that run wild thru neighborhoods.  The dogs are VERY dangerous when untrained, uncared for, and unattended.

I have a chihuahua, if I let it run thru the neighborhood, do you really think anyone is going to be scared for themselves or their children?  The dog weighs 5 pounds, couldn't break skin even if it did bite you and I have to stay close to it when it is in our yard so a hawk doesn't grab it.  (a hawk did attack our other dog a few years ago).

The difference is (which you can't seem to understand) is when a pit bull bites, it means business, it's not a bite and release type of dog.  It's a bite, hold, rip, tear, until someone beats it to make it stop.


get a grip on reality.

and btw, what the hell is erg?

[tommy]

The problem isn't you or your dog, it's all the bad owners out there.   It's these dogs that run wild thru neighborhoods.  The dogs are VERY dangerous when untrained, uncared for, and unattended.

You said is all right there. Do you think I was dropped out of the clouds and was just a good dog owner or did I have to make an effort? Shardian and others are blaming the dogs and as you clearly stated above, it is not the dogs fault.

Thank you for supporting my ideas. 

[ChadTower]

You said is all right there. Do you think I was dropped out of the clouds and was just a good dog owner or did I have to make an effort? Shardian and others are blaming the dogs and as you clearly stated above, it is not the dogs fault.

No, he's not.  He has been blaming the owner all along.

Solve the problem, tommy.  Prevent the attacks from happening.  What is the only possible way to do that?

[tommy]

As it's been said before, you are the one that doesn't want to fix the problem of bad owners.  You are such a pro- pit bull guy, why don't you want to fight to save your breed.  You should be the most outraged at these stories of bad pit bulls, but all you want to do is sit back and say my pit bull is perfect...

All I do is say it's the dog owners fault for how their dog acts. Watch the video and you will see exactly what I mean, but you will never do that because you want to go on thinking these crazy ideas and will never give what I say half a chance.


It's a good watch, watch it.

I'm trying to show you how to prevent the attack.
Watch the video and learn, chad!!

[shardian]

You just don't get it, if all people were like these people and wanted to care about their dog there would be no problems. These are dog owners trying to fix their dogs issues and these are the kind of dog owners you want to live near.

I can't see what you're getting so angry about, you're beyond help and everyone around you is in trouble.

Watch the video, mr know it all who knows nothing, shardian.

Shardian you don't even want to fix the problem, all you want to be able to do is sit in your little house in your perfect or imperfect world and be able to point your finger at these dogs, YOU need to educate yourself and want to be educated.

Thank you for that post. It reminded me what the real problem is here. We all live in the real world, and you live in Tommyville. I forgot there for a while.

I've been to the Dog Whisperer's site before when I WAS trying to cope with the situation and learn to communicate with these dogs. I am not a violent person, and would do anything to avoid a confrontation if I could.

On my run of street, almost EVERY house has a dog. Every single one of those folks:
A. Do not own a Pit Bull
B. Keep their dogs where they belong be it a tiny toy dog (to my right) or a large lab (directly across the street).

THOSE are the people I like to live beside. In comes this young punk ass who has to have 2 pit bulls and lets them run loose. He gets called on it, and he whines about how there isn't a problem and he don't understand why I would be so cruel to call animal control on his dogs. One of his dogs gets shot, and he still has the nerve to tell the reporter that he just don't understand why this happened, that he STILL has not tagged his dogs, and that he STILL lets the white one run around 24/7. How dense can you be?

I don't call that fixing a problem. Good intentions don't get much done do they? Like I've said before, they are really nice people, we liked them and were even talking about scheduling a game night with them before the big dog showed up. But it is a great show of disrespect to let their dogs take possession of others property and to harass other people and their animals.

[JimmyU]

I've seen two major problems with Pitbulls:
1. Bad owners who just don't teach the dogs how to behave safely.
2. Irresponsible breeding.  A lot of breeders just don't care about the bloodlines and desirable traits.  I've seen them actually breed more vicious dogs because that's what some owners wanted.

I've rescued two dogs and will never buy a dog (too many dogs that don't have homes.)  I would never adopt a Pitbull because it's almost impossible to determine what environment they were brought up in.  They may be docile and friendly the week or two they are it the shelter, but something from their past can cause them to snap and attack.

[SithMaster]

I've seen two major problems with Pitbulls:
1. Bad owners who just don't teach the dogs how to behave safely.
2. Irresponsible breeding.  A lot of breeders just don't care about the bloodlines and desirable traits.  I've seen them actually breed more vicious dogs because that's what some owners wanted.

I've rescued two dogs and will never buy a dog (too many dogs that don't have homes.)  I would never adopt a Pitbull because it's almost impossible to determine what environment they were brought up in.  They may be docile and friendly the week or two they are it the shelter, but something from their past can cause them to snap and attack.

quick edit your post before tommy gets mad and rants about how great pitbulls are and the merits of adopting 40 of them.

i dont get what the argument is about.  pitbulls are dangerous animals that only certain people should adopt.  maybe they should be regulated but then the government gets involved and how often does that work out.

and shardian sorry about your neighbors being crazy.

JimmyU - congrats on saving two dogs.  if i ever adopt again it will always be from a shelter.

[ChadTower]

Everyone here, no matter what their opinion of the dogs themselves, has been in agreement that the underlying problem is bad owners.

So ban the bad owners.  How?  You would have two options:

1)  Take away pits that have attacked.
2)  Take away pits before they attack.

The obvious question: Do you want to prevent attacks or simply punish those who have allowed attacks to happen?

[CCM]

As it's been said before, you are the one that doesn't want to fix the problem of bad owners.  You are such a pro- pit bull guy, why don't you want to fight to save your breed.  You should be the most outraged at these stories of bad pit bulls, but all you want to do is sit back and say my pit bull is perfect...

All I do is say it's the dog owners fault for how their dog acts. Watch the video and you will see exactly what I mean, but you will never do that because you want to go on thinking these crazy ideas and will never give what I say half a chance.


It's a good watch, watch it.

I'm trying to show you how to prevent the attack.
Watch the video and learn, chad!!

All you do is sound like a broken record.  You claim to be a good owner, you say it not the dog's fault, blah, blah, blah...   But you offer NO SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM OF BAD OWNERS!

You tell us to get educated and watch the dog whisperer, yet NONE OF US ARE THE PROBLEM.  You are the ONLY one that owns a pit bull.  We don't own these dangerous animals.  It's like you are trying to make us good owners of dogs we don't own... 

Since you are the pit bull expert, how are we supposed to deal with bad owners in our neighborhoods??  You have no answers for anything. 

[tommy]

You can't fix an ---uvula--- with a dog that is not responsible, you just can't, unless he wants to change.

If you want to see how a responsible owner tries to fix already bad problems in dogs, watch the video, Everything I'm talking about right now is about the video and if you did no look at it, then we really can't see where the other is coming from.

Don't read the name of the video and think you know all about what is on the video, you don't. Just take 15-20 minuets and watch it all the way through, is that so hard? Things will make a bit more sense to you when you do.

[ChadTower]

No one is trying to fix the responsible owners.

Answer the obvious question I presented, tommy.  Do you want the dogs to stay knowing attacks will happen or do you want to prevent the attacks?

[CCM]

You can't fix an ---uvula--- with a dog that is not responsible, you just can't, unless he wants to change.

If you want to see how a responsible owner tries to fix already bad problems in dogs, watch the video, Everything I'm talking about right now is about the video and if you did no look at it, then we really can't see where the other is coming from.

Don't read the name of the video and think you know all about what is on the video, you don't. Just take 15-20 minuets and watch it all the way through, is that so hard? Things will make a bit more sense to you when you do.

I watch the dog whisperer, I've already seen the actual episode.   Again you're missing the point and offering no solutions.   Good owners and people who are trying to do the right thing with their dogs are not the problem.  There needs to be a solution to the bad owners, to which your answer is: you can't fix them... That is not an answer.

There need to be laws enacted to regulate these dangerous animals.  And the laws need to be enforced.  Do you agree with this??  If you are a good owner as you claim, you should have nothing to worry about.

What would YOU do to stop these bad owners??  Ban the dogs, mandatory training/registration for the dogs, jail time, fines, etc...??

We can all agree that pit bulls are a huge problem in the wrong hands, but you just throw your hands up and say 'oh well, they're ---uvulas--- and you cant' change them', that's not a solution.

[shardian]

I watched your video Tommy. First off, that had absolutely zero relevance to an issue of uncontrolled dogs.

Wow, we learned that if a dog recognizes a human as master, and that they get the feeling that master is in control, they will not feel threatened because master will protect them. Well how about that? That's about as basic as dog psychology gets - pack mentality. Good for those people in that apartment complex that they are all responsible dog owners. I'll guarantee you that after the whisperer left, things went right back to the way they were.

I can solve all of those peoples problems real quick, if you live in a cramped apartment complex, GET A ---smurfing--- CAT!

I also found it quite humorous when the lady with the mixed pit tried to downplay that the pit was attacking her and her other dog and was COMPLETELY out of control. Mr. Whisperer says, "You are in denial". I like that guy.

Still, your video had absolutely no relevance.

As I've said before, I have had conversations with Ed Frawley, who is a world class expert in training vicious breed dogs, and for breeding and training German Shepherd police dogs. When an expert such as that advises you that there isn't anything you can do when confronted with a pissed off dog without an owner or master in sight, how the hell else do you expect me to educate myself.

[shardian]

You can't fix an ---uvula--- with a dog that is not responsible, you just can't, unless he wants to change.

So what else do you expect people in my situation to do other than get frustrated, get angry, try to relieve the owner of the dog they can't care for?

I can't legally, or in good conscience separate a bad owner from his dog. I can't speak reason to a bad owner. How else is there to combat this problem that you fully acknowledge exists other than to turn to lawmakers and ask for regulations so there is a baseline for authorities to act BEFORE a situation where a person or animal gets hurt?

[tommy]

So what else do you expect people in my situation to do other than get frustrated, get angry, try to relieve the owner of the dog they can't care for?

Just don't blame the dog.

Now everyone here is saying they agree that it's the bad owners and it is not the dogs fault anymore? This was not the case 3 or 4 pages ago.

I don't have all the answers, all I was saying is that the dogs are not at fault and if we can agree on that then all is good for me in this argument as that was my point from the start. If by me posting here many times has finally got you to understand that part, then that's great, that is my contribution to making people realize what is and what is not the problem.

If it makes you happy then I'll have to agree and say, yes, make pit bull owners from now on have to be trained and people need to know that they are not buying a dog as a toy and that they intend on following through with this dog till it dies.

Other than that, we can't change the past and probably not even the present, all we can do is change the future of pit bull owners.

[ChadTower]

How else is there to combat this problem that you fully acknowledge exists other than to turn to lawmakers and ask for regulations so there is a baseline for authorities to act BEFORE a situation where a person or animal gets hurt?

I've been asking that all along.  Either people find attacks acceptable as the price of the liberty to own a pitbull or they find the attacks outweigh that liberty.

Haven't gotten an answer yet despite asking it eleventy Drewzillion times.

[saint]

Just don't blame the dog.

Now everyone here is saying they agree that it's the bad owners and it is not the dogs fault anymore? This was not the case 3 or 4 pages ago.

Pit bulls are bad dogs.

[tommy]

What do you want from me? All I can speak on is what responsible owners do and I can't tell you how to change the world so that everyone on earth does not have to deal with losers. What I can tell you is that it is not fair for good people with good dogs to have to give up there dog based on what some other guys dog did because that guy does not give two shits about him, his kids, let alone a dog. It is also not fair that good people have to run into bad people with bad dogs and they have to get injured or die because of it. This is why this is such a hot topic, we must find a way to make everyone happy.

[shardian]

So what else do you expect people in my situation to do other than get frustrated, get angry, try to relieve the owner of the dog they can't care for?

Just don't blame the dog.

Now everyone here is saying they agree that it's the bad owners and it is not the dogs fault anymore? This was not the case 3 or 4 pages ago.

I don't have all the answers, all I was saying is that the dogs are not at fault and if we can agree on that then all is good for me in this argument as that was my point from the start. If by me posting here many times has finally got you to understand that part, then that's great, that is my contribution to making people realize what is and what is not the problem.

If it makes you happy then I'll have to agree and say, yes, make pit bull owners from now on have to be trained and people need to know that they are not buying a dog as a toy and that they intend on following through with this dog till it dies.

Other than that, we can't change the past and probably not even the present, all we can do is change the future of pit bull owners.

For the most part yes, it is the owner. There are still more than a few Pit Bulls ( and plenty of other dangerous breeds - don't want to single any one out now) out there that are just plain born with bad behavioral issues. That debate will always be a stalemate because some people (not naming any names) simply refuse to believe that these behavioral problems exist from the beginning and are not curable. They can only hope to be contained or redirected for as long a possible.

[ChadTower]

The only assumption I can make from tommy's post, since he will not actually answer the question, is that he finds a certain amount of attacks acceptable.  He did say that he finds it unfair that he would have to lose his dog... but did not say that it is unfair that innocent people are getting mauled.

[shardian]

What do you want from me? All I can speak on is what responsible owners do and I can't tell you how to change the world so that everyone on earth does not have to deal with losers. What I can tell you is that it is not fair for good people with good dogs to have to give up there dog based on what some other guys dog did because that guy does not give two shits about him, his kids, let alone a dog. It is also not fair that good people have to run into bad people with bad dogs and they have to get injured or die because of it. This is why this is such a hot topic, we must find a way to make everyone happy.

Quote from Abraham Lincoln:

You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but NEVER all of the people all of the time.

Learn it, like it, or deal with it if you are on the losing side.

[tommy]

The only assumption I can make from tommy's post, since he will not actually answer the question, is that he finds a certain amount of attacks acceptable.  He did say that he finds it unfair that he would have to lose his dog... but did not say that it is unfair that innocent people are getting mauled.

What do you want from me? All I can speak on is what responsible owners do and I can't tell you how to change the world so that everyone on earth does not have to deal with losers. What I can tell you is that it is not fair for good people with good dogs to have to give up there dog based on what some other guys dog did because that guy does not give two shits about him, his kids, let alone a dog. It is also not fair that good people have to run into bad people with bad dogs and they have to get injured or die because of it. This is why this is such a hot topic, we must find a way to make everyone happy.

Reread.

[ChadTower]

Ah, yes, for once, rereading a tommy post did help.

tommy's solution is to not solve it.

[tommy]

To try to get back on topic, shardian.

That dog that got shot probably was too dangerous and probably deserved to get killed, maybe not in the way it did, but still. But that dog was a refection of it's owner or lack of owner and that dog was a victim of having a moron in charge of it.

Ah, yes, for once, rereading a tommy post did help.

tommy's solution is to not solve it.

No, not do nothing, but I don't have all the answers.

[ChadTower]

Now I'm satisfied with tommy's point of view.   

I don't entirely agree with it but I accept his position.

[shardian]

Cue the angels singing hallelujah, and lock this thread down before anyone can spoil this moment. This needs to be front page news people!!!

[ChadTower]

The big question:

Do we find a possible Giants super bowl appearance acceptable or do we need to ban Eli Manning before anybody gets hurt?

[tommy]

The big question:

Do we find a possible Giants super bowl appearance acceptable or do we need to ban Eli Manning before anybody gets hurt?

You better accept it, it's going to happen. The big question is can yo deal with it? 

Go on, doubt the Giants again, you can doubt them right up until they win it all.

[shardian]

I'll offer this consolation:
If for some strange impossible coincidence NY beats my Packers this weekend, I will swear to root for the Giants in the Superbowl. Your breakthru voice of reason means that much to me Tommy.

[ChadTower]

I won't stand against the possibility that they could beat the Packers.  They might do it.

The Patriots?  I'll stand on that like a 1000ft flagpole.

[SithMaster]

The big question:

Do we find a possible Giants super bowl appearance acceptable or do we need to ban Eli Manning before anybody gets hurt?

No just ban the owners of eli mannings.  its not the eli mannings fault it tackles people but the owners.

[tommy]

I think we came closer to anyone who has played the pats in beating them. Can we do it better next time? Maybe.

[ChadTower]

I think we came closer to anyone who has played the pats in beating them. Can we do it better next time? Maybe.

The Eagles and Colts were definitely closer.  I was never in doubt that they would beat the Giants, even halfway through the 4th when the Giants were still winning.