How much can you really do witha small Table saw?

[FhM]

I have had my table saw a few months now and it has been great for doing smaller stuff but it seems I am very limited in what I can cut without building a large extension table and getting another fence system.
I don't expect to be cutting 4 x 8 boards on it or anything but even most of the panels for the cabinet aren't possible given the maximum distance I have between the blade and the fence. I cant for instance do a rough cut and then clean it up on the table saw as I am limited to about 12" so I don't have the distance to guide the straight edge.

I have just ended up using my circular saw and a saw board for most stuff. Tell me am I going about this the completely wrong way with the table saw? Any hints tips etc greatly appreciated.

[sstorkel]

You're correct, IMHO: small bench-top table saws really aren't that useful. They're great for making repetitive cuts on small pieces (e.g. kitchen cabinet face frames), but quite limited in dealing with larger projects. The distance between the blade and fence and from the front of the table to the front of the blade are the big problems.

[WaRpEd]

I agree with sstrokel a portable table saw is too small a table for most tasks.
I finally bought a larger half cabinet style table with built in dust collection and am thrilled with the ease of use and jigs available that I could never use with my old one.
I got mine from Lowe's it's a Hitachi brand.
Cheers

[Donkman]

 I started out working with a small craftsman table saw. I have cut many
  4x8 mdf sheets with the help of a partner.
We also cut molding and other small trim with it. You can cut about any material necessary with a sharp blade and a little help.
Instead of cutting your dimensional cuts on the fence side just subtract for blade and fence setting and cut your dimensional pieces to the outside of the blade. A portable roller stand or outfeed stand helps but for large items definitely get some help. If you have a splitter on the saw consider removing it for manmade materials. A blade guard/splitter assembly is good for a infrequent user but will throw your cuts off in some instances. 


 Check your saw fence for parallel,observe safe cutting practices and enjoy your build. 

[Molinero]

If you have a splitter on the saw consider removing it for manmade materials. A blade guard/splitter assembly is good for a infrequent user but will throw your cuts off in some instances. 

Removing it will also throw the wood back into your face. Be very careful if you do it - the splitter and guard are there for a reason.

[ChadTower]

That's not what the splitter does... the kickback knives aren't necessarily the same as the splitter.  Not on a decent guard anyway.  The splitter just keeps the kerf from closing as you make the cut and therefore binding the blade.

I'm not that experienced in whole sheet cutting on a tablesaw but I would think given the weight of a whole sheet, and the weight of a tablesaw, that it would be damn near impossible to bind and toss a whole sheet of ply or worse with mdf.  The saw would throw itself first, and if bolted down, would possibly snap the spinning mechanism rather than toss up the 60lb sheet.  That may or may not be more dangerous, though, than a softly tossed sheet of plywood.

[Molinero]

Yeah but if the wood binds the blade then it can come up and over the blade to where you stand at a very high speed.

[ChadTower]

Yeah but if the wood binds the blade then it can come up and over the blade to where you stand at a very high speed.

What is "it" in that sentence?  The wood or the blade?

[sstorkel]

Yeah but if the wood binds the blade then it can come up and over the blade to where you stand at a very high speed.

What is "it" in that sentence?  The wood or the blade?

The wood. This is a description of the classic kick-back accident...

[ChadTower]

It would be with a smaller piece... but he's asking about ripping full sheets on a 30lb tablesaw.  I just don't see a plastc base benchtop saw kicking a full sheet.   Too heavy to fling compared to the tablesaw's mass.

[sstorkel]

It would be with a smaller piece... but he's asking about ripping full sheets on a 30lb tablesaw.  I just don't see a plastc base benchtop saw kicking a full sheet.   Too heavy to fling compared to the tablesaw's mass.

  I hope your medical insurance is paid up...

The first thing to realize is that most decent benchtop saws weigh more than 30lbs. The Bosch 4100, for example, ships in a 124lb package. The older Bosch 4000, without stand, is 74lbs. The Dewalt 745 is 55lbs. The Ridgid TS2400 is 124lbs, including the stand. The Ryobi BTS20R is 92lbs, including the stand.

The second thing to realize is that these saws are built for job site use. They use direct drive motors, which are unlikely to break.

Third, the splitter is the single most important safety device on a benchtop saw. The splitter is what prevents kickback from occurring! Yes, there may be anti-kickback pawls attached to the splitter but they really don't to a Hell of a lot. Kickback happens when wood moves away from the fence and catches on the teeth of the saw blade as they emerge from the table. The first few teeth start to pull the wood up and over the blade. Eventually, enough teeth are embedded in the wood that it gets kicked back at the operator. The splitter prevents kickback by preventing wood from coming into contact with the rear of the blade. Keeping the kerf open is really a secondary consequence.

Finally, don't think that you're safe just because a benchtop saw doesn't deliver as much horsepower as a 3-phase industrial cabinet saw. It may not fire that 75lb piece of plywood at you going 100mph, but don't think that things won't get out of control if something goes wrong. It would be very easy to find your hand pulled into the blade, or to take a corner of the workpiece in the gut and end up with internal organ damage...

[Molinero]

All I was really trying to say was that he should know and be aware of the consequences of removing safety equipment because they are there for a reason.

I know some doesn't like having a splitter on, doesn't use push sticks and so on - I would never do it but if they know what the wood+machine can do to them and they still CHOSE to remove the safety features then that's okay with me. I personally think it's nuts but I don't care what other people do as long as they know the consequences of their actions.

[ChadTower]

Not all benchtop saws weigh that much.  Mine has a plastic base and probably weighs 30lb at the most. 

That said I'd never be foolish enough to try and cut a full sheet on this saw.  It's just not up to that task.

[BobA]

Have your 4x8 precut at the lumber supplier and use your table saw to trim and cut angles.   If you set the fence to remove the waste piece when you cut your panels to size you will be able to cut most pieces on a small table saw.  It takes a bit of planning to have the rough cuts done at the lumber supplier.  They usually do 4 cuts on a sheet for free so it is very handy.

[Donkman]

   The cutting at your local lumber yard is a good idea if they have a panel saw such as Lowes or Home Depot. Cutting odd pieces and frame pieces should be fine on a small benchtop saw. I don't advise anyone removing safety equipment or guards if not capable and possessing knowledge of proper tablesaw operation.
 I first learned to use a tablesaw in a pattern shop. We never had a splitter or a guard on the fullsize cabinet saw in use there. I have used tablesaws in other places without splitters or guards. A craftsmen used to working without these attachments generally doesn't need them. On a small tablesaw I would make sure it is securely anchored or on a stable stand before any cutting operation. The cabinet saw in my shop now has never had the splitter installed on a 3hp 220v single phase power machine. I have had material kick back on me and fly across the shop, once!!
   The person catching material has as much a part in safe operation as the person pushing material. Cutting a fullsize sheet of 4x8  material is a two or three person operation if enough help is available. I regularly crossrip full sheets to obtain dimensions outside of the range of the 50 inch extended fence.
 If wood binds against the saw and is held firmly against the blade force the motor will trigger a protective reset on some saw motors and/or flip a breaker. A fullsize sheet of MDF 3/4 weighs approx 90 lbs and is too heavy for most saws to kickback. The tablesaw I began using when first starting in business had a splitter and guard that caused unacceptable operation such as pulling the material away from the fence and causing the saw to walk across the ground in the process. It took three people to feed the machine properly and safely. This saw was light enough to pick up and carry by yourself and would cut MDF and plywood well if fed at a slow speed to allow the motor to keep sufficient rpms. Dull blades are as much to blame for binding and burning material as anything. A sharp blade will cut material with less effort and make climbing the blade less likely. On a good tablesaw combination
blade there are anti kickback gullets every few teeth. I use a guard on the saw made of thick acrylic over the blade but mainly for dust collection and eye protection. The guard is also a 500 dollar aftermarket addon. There is an anti kickback pawl that never gets lowered from the guard into operating position.
 I also use jigs that will not allow using a guard or splitter such as a dado blade for cutting dados, rabbets,
 box joints etc.
If anyone is not confident in their ability to operate a saw safely without the splitter just don't do it. For others that are used to a saw setup without splitters and guards it is not even an issue.

[bishmasterb]

I'm not that experienced in whole sheet cutting on a tablesaw but I would think given the weight of a whole sheet, and the weight of a tablesaw, that it would be damn near impossible to bind and toss a whole sheet of ply or worse with mdf.  The saw would throw itself first, and if bolted down, would possibly snap the spinning mechanism rather than toss up the 60lb sheet.  That may or may not be more dangerous, though, than a softly tossed sheet of plywood.

I think you're right on a smaller table saw (1-1.5HP). My home saw will simply bind up if it starts to pull the sheet back against the fence.

Just as a word of caution however, a larger saw can definitely throw an entire piece of 4x8 ply or mdf back on to you if it starts to pull back on the wood. I've not done it personally, but the guy I work for has had it happen to him (knocked him over and the wind out of him) on the 5HP saw at our shop.

[pacmandude]

I've been reading this for a while, but I think it's time for me to chime in.

I take issue with a few things. If your splitter is throwing off the cut, then the splitter needs adjusting. Unplug the saw and adjust. The guard usually bolts onto a trunion and can easily be adjusted by using a square and insuring that the splitter is perfectly behind the blade. There's not much room for error (1/8"). It is true that a kickback is less likely with 'man-made' woods like MDF, but still possible. Sometimes the guard must be removed for very thin rips or dado joints. Exercise extreme caution. I once had the unfortunate opportunity to give first aid to a young man that had a piece of stock kick back. He was working with a cabinet table saw (I was working on the other cabinet saw at the time) and backed out of the cut with the saw on. The wood caught, the blade threw the piece, and his hand was pulled through the dado blade with the wood. Take a look at post #10, he's exactly right. The splitter prevents a kickback, the pawls attempt to hold the wood if one does occur (the wood will likely still the thrown).

Size isn't the only consideration when buying a table saw. There are direct drive and inderect drive tablesaws. I would recommend against a direct drive table saw if building an entire cabinet. Indirect drive saws typically have larger motors and gain some mechanical advantage through the different sizes of drive wheels on the motor and blade assembly. I personally bit the bullet many years ago and purchased a nice Jet table saw. I've never had an issue, and it's had HEAVY use.

[WillBurne]

Removing it will also throw the wood back into your face. Be very careful if you do it - the splitter and guard are there for a reason.

I've got to disagree with any such comment. Guards are the most dangerous aspect of using a tablesaw minus the operator. If you rely on a guard, you may rethink using the tool. I have been installing interior trim for 15+ years and I often rip 4x8 sheets of birch for built-ins. I am able to rip sheets in half by myself with full confidence and no outfeed table. There exist (believe it or not) in the woodworking trade a wealth of knowledge available to apprentices concerning safety and none of it  concerns the use of a blade guard. (at least for a tablesaw)
I am not trying to be disagreeable, just my .02  If you do use the guard just be warned - one day it's gonna bite ya! Lastley saws don't kick back, unless you're feeding your stock improperly.

[sstorkel]

I've got to disagree with any such comment. Guards are the most dangerous aspect of using a tablesaw minus the operator. If you rely on a guard, you may rethink using the tool. I have been installing interior trim for 15+ years and I often rip 4x8 sheets of birch for built-ins. I am able to rip sheets in half by myself with full confidence and no outfeed table. There exist (believe it or not) in the woodworking trade a wealth of knowledge available to apprentices concerning safety and none of it  concerns the use of a blade guard. (at least for a tablesaw)
I am not trying to be disagreeable, just my .02  If you do use the guard just be warned - one day it's gonna bite ya! Lastley saws don't kick back, unless you're feeding your stock improperly.

Based on what you've read in these forums, how likely do you think it is that the people reading them have the same level of experience that you do? Are those people going to be just as safe as you are when they remove the blade guards and splitters from their table saws?

FWIW, I've never seen or heard of a blade guard or splitter that caused an accident...

[pacmandude]

WillBurne,

Not everybody has the level of experience with saws that you do. I respect your experience and have not operated saws as long as you, but an operator can experience a kickback without making a large mistake. Cutting some woods without a splitter can cause kickback because the cut portions of the wood pinches the back of the blade due to the nature of the piece of stock. Not extremely likely, but it happens. The splitter keeps the cut pieces...split so they can't pinch. Yes, sometimes guards and splitters must be taken off to rip exceptionally thin stock, make dado cuts, or accomplish other advanced cuts. To me not using the safety devices when you could be is just playing the odds. I don't take that chance with my fingers. Perhaps I am just extra careful with my fingers since I am a performing pianist.