Further basement work...

[ChadTower]

I know there are a couple other guys here with ongoing basement finishing projects... here's a thread to talk about them.

Just finished the ceiling blocking (this wall is parallel to joists)... broke out the hammer drill for the first time.  Cool toy.

I'm working on attaching the bottom plate now after marking out the distance from the wall using a plumb bob.  Pressure treated 2x4s on the floor, using 3" exterior rated screws, and probably some construction adhesive as well.  I'm drilling the holes now.  Any advice as to how far apart they need to be?  I'm thinking every 3' or so should do it.

[drunkatuw]

To attach the bottom plate in my basement, I used a ramset. 



Put the nail in the front, load the shell and then hit the end with a hammer and it will drive the nail into the concrete floor.  I put a nail centered between each stud, so 16" apart.  No need to drill into concrete and the ramset is probably cheaper than the concrete drill bit.

[shardian]

That's a pretty neat tool. Much cheaper of an option for home use. I looked it up on amazon.com and it is about $30 shipped.

[polaris]

---fudgesicle--- me , thats basically a gun that shoots nails, for £15 , that is mental.

i cant imagine that they do them in the uk, every teenager would carry one and kill other 'hoodies' with it

[ArcadeAddiction]

I have this one.  You pull a trigger rather than hit it with a hammer. You have to put your body weight on it. It has a safety on it, like a farming nailer. That's another good toy if your framing a basement. I wouldn't have done mine without one.

[boykster]

I've done it both ways, with the impact nailer and the concrete drilling.  Either works fine, but of course shooting nails with a BANG! is much more fun 

If you're using construction adhesive as well as screws, you'd be ok at every 36" or so, but 16" (one between each vertical stud) would be normal.  Once that glue sets though, its not going anywhere.

[ChadTower]

Got the Hammer drill, NIB, for free, so I went with that. 

I did learn, though, that outdoor coated screws apparently aren't the same as concrete screws.  Of the 5 I put in last night, one snapped off at about 90% depth, one stripped at the head, and one wouldn't go all the way down despite proper hole depth.  So either I need concrete screws or I didn't predrill quite wide enough a hole.  I'm not good yet at judging what size hole to predrill in various materials.  boykster is right about the adhesive, though... even with only two proper screws and a couple not quite right, that board isn't going anywhere.

[shardian]

To attach the bottom plate in my basement, I used a ramset. 



Put the nail in the front, load the shell and then hit the end with a hammer and it will drive the nail into the concrete floor.  I put a nail centered between each stud, so 16" apart.  No need to drill into concrete and the ramset is probably cheaper than the concrete drill bit.

I just won one on ebay with 75 each shells and anchors for $17 shipped.

[billf]

I've done two basements and used just adhesive to hold the bottom plate down.  I glued the bottom plate down, wedged it into place, and let it sit for a couple of days.  I used PL400 glue, strong stuff.  At my first house, I glued the bottom plates in place, then decided to shorten one of the walls by about three feet.  Took a hand saw to cut back the length of bottom plated glued down; I needed to chisel that three foot section off the floor - it actually took the smooth surface of concrete with it.  So I had a scrapped piece of 3 foot bottom plate with glue and a thin layer of concrete attached to it.  Moral of the story, if using adhesive (especially if using PL400) make sure you have the walls where you want them.

In my second basement, I had carpet installed.  IIRC, they used something like ArcadeAddiction posted to put in the tack strips around the perimeter.

[ChadTower]

Moral of the story, if using adhesive (especially if using PL400) make sure you have the walls where you want them.

Good advice.  Fortunately I'm doing almost all perimeter walls (against the foundation) and very little interior.

[billf]

Moral of the story, if using adhesive (especially if using PL400) make sure you have the walls where you want them.

Good advice.  Fortunately I'm doing almost all perimeter walls (against the foundation) and very little interior.

Yep, the one I decided to shorten was an interior wall.

[billf]

Chad, did you seal your foundation walls with something like Drylock basement paint?

[ChadTower]

Yep... Drylok is exactly what I used, then covered in styrofoam insulation sheets.  No plastic since the basement was already quite dry before the Drylok.

[billf]

Yep... Drylok is exactly what I used, then covered in styrofoam insulation sheets.  No plastic since the basement was already quite dry before the Drylok.

 

[myntik1]

I'm about to start doing my basement next month. 2 questions:

(1) Since I'm thinking about putting a pellet stove in my basement, I was thinking about going with furring strips instead of 2x4 walls. I was told not to since I wouldn't be able to put good insualtion in.  One since I'll have a pellet stove, would the r factor really matter (I live in the NE)

(2) The most daunting part of the task will be mudding and sanding the walls.  I was thinking about hiring this out.  Is it really that time consuming to get it right?

sorry about hijacking your thread

[ChadTower]

(1) Since I'm thinking about putting a pellet stove in my basement, I was thinking about going with furring strips instead of 2x4 walls. I was told not to since I wouldn't be able to put good insualtion in.  One since I'll have a pellet stove, would the r factor really matter (I live in the NE)

You're going to be wasting a lot of fuel if you don't insulate the walls.

[shardian]

I'm about to start doing my basement next month. 2 questions:

(1) Since I'm thinking about putting a pellet stove in my basement, I was thinking about going with furring strips instead of 2x4 walls. I was told not to since I wouldn't be able to put good insualtion in.  One since I'll have a pellet stove, would the r factor really matter (I live in the NE)

(2) The most daunting part of the task will be mudding and sanding the walls.  I was thinking about hiring this out.  Is it really that time consuming to get it right?

sorry about hijacking your thread

I was wondering the same thing on the furring strips. I have an understair closet that I would like to finish to better seal the downstairs. I suppose there is a foam board insulation that could fit with furring, but haven't looked to far into it yet.

[ChadTower]

From what I saw when looking into it, the rigid insulation sheets are something in the R3 to R6 or 7 range... I didn't see any higher than that at the box stores.  The higher end was pretty thick, too, which meant you'd have to be using at least 1" thick furring strips.  By the time you get that far out you may as well use the framed out wall... of course, I'm a full amateur at all of this, so I could be totally wrong.

sharidan's case is probably a bit different in that he lives in a much warmer spot and only really needs an R3, especially inside a closet.

[shardian]

Yes, the 1" polystyrene is only like an R4. In the closet I might even just use 1/2" or 3/4". I mainly am concerned with sealing up the space moisture wise, as that closet is a big hole in the insulation system downstairs.

[ChadTower]

That's the one area where my insulation panels kind of sucked.  I had to cut them in halves to get them into my wife's car... but then they didn't quite cut straight even with a sharp box cutter blade.  So it was sort of like putting together a jigsaw puzzle in a couple of ways... where if I had gone with the tongue and groove stuff it would have come out better but cost at least twice as much.  It's not going to be a big moisture barrier because of the slight gaps in the panels, but where my basement is so dry, and the Drylok is there, heat was the primary concern.

[billf]

Are you also going to use batt insulation in between the studs of the wall in addition to the insulation panels.  I didn't use the panels when I did my basement, how do you attach them to the wall?

[ChadTower]

Are you also going to use batt insulation in between the studs of the wall in addition to the insulation panels.  I didn't use the panels when I did my basement, how do you attach them to the wall?

The walls that get finished will have blanket insulation... some of the walls will not get finished for some time, possibly left open.  The one I'm doing now probably won't get finished.  I'm putting up the stud wall because I need to put in a couple of electrical circuits there and rather than just attach them to the concrete I figured I'd go a little further and do it right so that I don't have to redo it later should I decide to finish that area.  Plus it's the first time I've done this so it's a learning experience before I get to the areas where appearance matters more.

I attached the panels with construction adhesive in a caulk gun.  A quick S pattern on the backside, put it on the wall, and lean something heavy on it for a couple of hours.

[shardian]

Not sure if you are responding to me or not, but I'll respond anyways.
There is normally no need to use foam panels. Usually they are used on the exterior of the house on newer construction.

Anyways, I am using foam panels because a fully framed wall is overkill in a closet. I can just attach a few furring strips to the block wall and screw drywall right to it. Standard blanket insulation won't fit in that space, as it is meant to go between full size wall framing.

I plan on just taping the panels to the furring strips. The drywall will hold it permanently in place. I guess I could put a few dabs of glue on the back, buy why go thru the extra effort?
As to vapor barrier, I am putting plastic sheeting onto the face of the furring strips before putting up the sheetrock. I'd recommend you do the same chad. You're supposed to put up sheeting on all outside walls.

[ChadTower]

Not sure if you are responding to me or not, but I'll respond anyways.
There is normally no need to use foam panels. Usually they are used on the exterior of the house on newer construction.

Regional difference here.  I asked a couple contractors and they both said putting it on the inside of the wall is a good move... saw it in a couple different books on the subject as well.  This is a more insulation = better region.

As to vapor barrier, I am putting plastic sheeting onto the face of the furring strips before putting up the sheetrock. I'd recommend you do the same chad. You're supposed to put up sheeting on all outside walls.

Sheeting is another 50/50 thing.  Ask 2 contractors (as I did) and they'll give you opposite answers.  Read through 4 books (did that too) and they'll split on it as well.  It really seems to be one of those determine your house's needs parts of the job.

[Ed_McCarron]

saw it in a couple different books on the subject as well.  This is a more insulation = better region.

Library books?   

You're New England, right?  Whats the typical 'cold' winter temp?  Not the 'gee, its chilly' cold, but those one or two cold snaps you get where its downright cold.

We get down around 10-15 in PA, I assume you get colder snaps?

Reason I ask - theres no insulation at all on my basement walls (1920's house) and I see frost form when its cold enough...

[billf]

Not sure if you are responding to me or not, but I'll respond anyways.
There is normally no need to use foam panels. Usually they are used on the exterior of the house on newer construction.

Regional difference here.  I asked a couple contractors and they both said putting it on the inside of the wall is a good move... saw it in a couple different books on the subject as well.  This is a more insulation = better region.

As to vapor barrier, I am putting plastic sheeting onto the face of the furring strips before putting up the sheetrock. I'd recommend you do the same chad. You're supposed to put up sheeting on all outside walls.

Sheeting is another 50/50 thing.  Ask 2 contractors (as I did) and they'll give you opposite answers.  Read through 4 books (did that too) and they'll split on it as well.  It really seems to be one of those determine your house's needs parts of the job.

I did not do sheeting.  My basement was like Chad's, very dry.  My sump pump never, ever ran in that house.  As a precaution, I did drylock the walls and decided I didn't need sheeting.  I was told by our inspector to drylock the basement walls and not to put up sheeting.

[ChadTower]

Library books?   

Damn right.  Ended up buying a couple too.

You're New England, right?  Whats the typical 'cold' winter temp?  Not the 'gee, its chilly' cold, but those one or two cold snaps you get where its downright cold.

We get down around 10-15 in PA, I assume you get colder snaps?

The coldest parts of February get down below 0 at night, the holy crap cold here is -10 probably with wind chills in the -25 range.  That's just an educated guess, though.  I'm Canadian so I tend to wear jean shorts outside until it gets to around freezing.

Reason I ask - theres no insulation at all on my basement walls (1920's house) and I see frost form when its cold enough...

I don't think I've seen frost but that might have more to do with ground temp than air temp, or maybe thickness of the foundation itself, or material.  Yours wouldn't be poured concrete from 1920, would it?

I did not do sheeting.  My basement was like Chad's, very dry.  My sump pump never, ever ran in that house.  As a precaution, I did drylock the walls and decided I didn't need sheeting.  I was told by our inspector to drylock the basement walls and not to put up sheeting.

We don't even have a pump.  I've only had external water in the basement a couple times in six years and both were in extreme rain situations.  One was raining so much the bottom of the chimney was leaking and still it was less than an inch in one corner.

[ChadTower]

Here is a local weather observatory's temperature chart for 2003 not too far from here... it gets a good picture of means.  Of course extremes are way lower but not sustained for more than 3-4 days.

[myntik1]

Thanks for the info guys.  I really do need to get started. I have a couple of working games and a coouple of projects in my unheated garage. At least if I frame it out soon I can feel better about moving them down there.  My insulation and wood estimates just shot through the roof though. 

[Ed_McCarron]

I don't think I've seen frost but that might have more to do with ground temp than air temp, or maybe thickness of the foundation itself, or material.  Yours wouldn't be poured concrete from 1920, would it?

Stone set in concrete.  Its bloody thick.

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  Best guess is that you have enough heat escaping that it is leaving condensation behind, but the rock is cold enough that the condensation freezes... is the floor dirt?  That definitely makes a difference in the old houses here.

[myntik1]

Sorry, but I just felt the need to add one more thing. I've been checking the local craigslist sites for an inexpensive table saw and I decided to search for insulation.  I guess some guy yesterday sold 2 bundles of unused wallboard insulation for $50.  My local lowe's has it for 10/sheet.

Chad show us some pics of your progress.  I really need motivation

[ChadTower]

I'd have to show it in time lapse.  I literally get two hours, maybe, a week to work on it.  Last night I got home from work, put some adhesive on a 2x4, placed it, then drove 5 screws.  Then I had to go back upstairs.   

[shardian]

I'd have to show it in time lapse.  I literally get two hours, maybe, a week to work on it.  Last night I got home from work, put some adhesive on a 2x4, placed it, then drove 5 screws.  Then I had to go back upstairs.   

That is how I did my entire bathroom renovation - it took almost a year.

[ChadTower]

That is how I did my entire bathroom renovation - it took almost a year.

Oh man I have to do that too - I'm not sure how, though, since we have only one bathroom and it is constantly in use.

[shardian]

Whew, it is 2 am and after putting my nose to the grindstone since 8, the basement lighting is finished.

BTW, the dimmer switch I got kicks total ass. It's a Lutron One Touch Smart dimmer with extra remote control. The lights fade in and fade out at several different easily controllable speeds. The coolest factor is that you can slow dim the lights just like in a movie theater. I will be installing the projector too you know.

Now onto tackling the exercise part of the basement.

[ChadTower]

That is one thing I'm not doing - the wiring.  I am going to have a pro do that.

[polaris]

That is one thing I'm not doing - the wiring.  I am going to have a pro do that.

do they do wiring as well?

[ChadTower]

do they do wiring as well?

?  I'm working under the assumption that since he put up the lights, and the lights are working, and he didn't hire an electrician, that he did the wiring.

[billf]

do they do wiring as well?

?  I'm working under the assumption that since he put up the lights, and the lights are working, and he didn't hire an electrician, that he did the wiring.

Think "lady of the evening".