this is driving me nuts!

[radiator]

right, first of all sorry for bringing this topic up again, but i'm still getting the sound problems in MAME

i've just got all the computer parts for my cab, got it all up and running, and i really don't understand why i'm still getting the problems.

PC spec:
Athlon XP 1700
ABIT NF7 mobo (N-Force chipset)
512Mb RAM (PC2700)
40 GB western digital HDD (8Mb cache)
ATI Radeon 7500 64Mb (s-video out)

tv: JVC 25" s-video (no support for 60Hz)

Software
Windows XP Pro - minimum install, all fancy graphics features turned off
MAME .67
MAMEwah

so, the problem happens in every game i've tried so far (ranging from pacman/defender to SmashTV/KOF98 etc). the sound skips every few seconds to run in sync with the game (which run at about 95-100%).

i can get rid of the sound problem if i turn off waitvsync and tripple buffer (even having one of those enabled causes the skipping again) - the games then run at a constant 100%, the sound is fine, but the video gets jerky and tears quite a lot

my MAME.INI is as follows:

### mame.ini ###

### Frontend Related ###
clones                  1

### Windows path and directory options ###
rompath                 roms
samplepath              samples
# inipath               <NULL> (not set)
cfg_directory           cfg
nvram_directory         nvram
memcard_directory       memcard
input_directory         inp
hiscore_directory       hi
state_directory         sta
artwork_directory       artwork
snapshot_directory      snap
diff_directory          diff
ctrlr_directory         ctrlr
cheat_file              cheat.dat
history_file            history.dat
mameinfo_file           mameinfo.dat

### Windows video options ###
autoframeskip           1
frameskip               0
waitvsync               0
triplebuffer            1
window                  0
ddraw                   1
hwstretch               1
resolution              640x480
refresh                 0
scanlines               0
switchres               1
switchbpp               1
maximize                1
keepaspect              1
matchrefresh            0
syncrefresh             0
throttle                1
full_screen_brightness   0.000000
frames_to_run           0
effect                  sharp
screen_aspect           4:3
sleep                   1
rdtsc                   0
high_priority           1

### Input device options ###
mouse                   0
joystick                0
lightgun                0
steadykey               0
keyboard_leds           1
a2d_deadzone            0.300000
# ctrlr                 <NULL> (not set)

### Mame CORE video options ###
norotate                0
ror                     0
rol                     0
autoror                 0
autorol                 0
flipx                   0
flipy                   0
debug_resolution        auto
gamma                   1.000000
brightness              1.000000
pause_brightness        0.650000

### Mame CORE vector game options ###
antialias               1
translucency            1
beam                    1.000000
flicker                 0.000000
intensity               1.500000

### Mame CORE sound options ###
samplerate              22050
samples                 1
resamplefilter          1
sound                   1
volume                  0

### Mame CORE misc options ###
artwork                 0
use_backdrops           0
use_overlays            0
use_bezels              0
artwork_crop            0
artwork_resolution      0
cheat                   0
debug                   0
# playback              <NULL> (not set)
# record                <NULL> (not set)
log                     0
oslog                   0
skip_disclaimer         1
skip_gameinfo           1

### Configuration options ###
readconfig              1
verbose                 0


i think i read somewhere that it might be because my tv is only 50Hz, but i don't understand how MAME would pick this up...it's set as 60Hz in windows (and runs fine)...

scan convertor maybe?

sorry for the long post, but i know there are other people with the same problem, and there's no real definitive answer...

 

[slug54]

In that long post, I didn't catch what sound card you were using. Onboard sound is crap!
Also make sure you don't have a DMA or IRQ conflict
between your sound card and other hardware.
I had a sound blaster card that if I left it in plug and play mode the sound would screw up occaisionally. but if I configured the card manually at a different IRQ and DMA it worked great.Also some games the sound just doesn't
 sound right like Scramble and Super cobra but I've never had troubles with Pacman or Defender.

                                  Slug54
 

[shmokes]

The onboard sound on the Nforce is one of the best consumer level PC audio options available.  Since you're using an Nforce your onboard sound does not suck.  It's better in every way than a Soundblaster Live card and it will output dolby digital 5.1 in digital (not just analog) form which not even an Audigy 2 will do.

[skirge66]

i've seen worms and spyware do this type of stuff...you don't by change use this computer on the internet with any filesharing type software do you? kazza and imesh and the lot are riddled with these things and most virus scanners won't find them. I know it may be far fetched, but I learned about it the hard way...and yes my system was bogged way down, and my sound got terrible...just an idea.

[u_rebelscum]

...
autoframeskip           1
sleep                   1
...
rdtsc                   0
...
effect                  sharp

Try disabling the first two (especially "sleep").

Try enabling "rdtsc".  Only helps some computers, though.

Try setting "effect" to none.  Probably not the case, but might be.

Also, you might be having a conflict of the on-board video and the ATi video card, if the drivers and MB aren't setup correctly.  Very big might.

[radiator]

slug54 - it's onboard sound...but the N-force boards have had excelent reviews in the sound department...and besides, exactly the same problem occurs on my main setup (AMD 1.2Ghz, 640Mb RAM, SB Live!, 80Gb WD HDD etc)

skirge66 - not using any other software than whats in the list (ie, Windows, MAME .67, MAMEwah)...no internet connection setup on it...

u_rebelscum - i'll give those a go and post back later with results...oh, and this mobo doesn't have onboard video

[radiator]

right, just tested the above recommendations and none of them make any difference (tried each individually, combinations, all on etc etc)

the ony way i can get MAME to run 100% full frame-rate and perfect sound it by turning off tripplebuffer (as mentioned above, either tripplebuffer or waitvsync will cause the sound skipping problem).
but tearing then occurs (it's not as bad as i make it out to be, but i notice it and it bugs me!)

thing is, i don't understand why it only happens when using the tv (using the same computer plugged into a standard computer monitor results in perfect sound/frame-rate, even with tripplebuffer turned on)

...

is it a case of "you can have perfect sound or perfect video, but not both"??

[Cave]

I'm pretty sure its a resolution problem, i get the exact same prob when i run pacman etc on a horizontal monitor but when its not rotated (i.e. on its side) the sound is perfect this also happens on some of the higher res games like smashtv,720...perhaps its some sort of refresh rate problem, sound is not in sync with the display ?

[radiator]

ok, i'm just running mame without tripplebuffer now, and all the games i've played so far run at 100%, max fps, and not a hint of skipped frames or dodgy sound.

next question is, does anyone know of a good guide on disabling windows processes? i want windows to use as little of the CPU performance as i can...

cheers

oh, and cave, i think you and i are having slightly different problems, as all my games run full speed through a PC monitor with tripplebuffer enabled (and hwstretch set at 640x480) its just tv output thats causing problems...

so just to clarify for everyone:

MAME through a TV:
Sound skipping
EVERY game won't run at constant full speed (95-100%)
The above only happen when 'tripplebuffer' is enabled

MAME through a PC monitor:
Perfect sound
Perfect speed
...even with tripplebuffer enabled

so it's down to the tv output side of things, with tripplebuffer on everything is perfect through the PC monitor, but when the tv is plugged in, problems occur (until tripplebuffer is disabled)...sorry to keep repeating myself

[EDIT]
http://www.blackviper.com/ - setting up Windows processes
[/EDIT]

[cdbrown]

radiator,

are you able to get your hands on a different video card that has s-video.  Clearly the problem is due to outputting through the s-video connection but I have no idea why.  

To those that might have a clue - does the s-video output use more of the graphics processor on the graphics card than just normal vga output?  A higher loading on the gpu would cause it to slow down  

radiator - have you tried using 3dmark on tv and monitor to see if the final score is different.  If you try it out (or another type of benchmarking software) be sure to use the same settings for monitor and tv.

Good luck and report back (I'm using s-video on an ATI 8500LE)

Cheers
-cdbrown

[radiator]

the only other tv-out card we've got is a Matrox G400 dualhead - I was using this before I got my ATI (just as a test setup really, to see what the TV was like) and I got exactly the same problem...

I think we need to get everyone using tv out + s-video tvs to post their computer spec (really detailed that is, ie, CPU, mobo RAM (and speed) Hdd, graphics card etc), and also get them to post their MAME results (framerate, speed %, any problems they're getting) - at least with all that info we should be able to eliminate certain things off the list of possible problem causes...

...just depends on whether people can be bothered to post (yeah i know, it would be very boring... )

[EDIT]
No improvement on the sound issue, but, I followed that guide on tweaking your windows setup, and my computer now boots up in 28 secs (thats from pressing the power switch, to MAMEwah loading) - I thought that was quite impressive (and a good pointer for those of you wanting to use DOS because it boots faster...XP can load fast, it just needs tweaking! )

[cdbrown]

Here's a good link of various XP tweaks http://forums.tweakers.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78

I have
XP 1800+ (overclocked to 175x11.5 XP 2400+)
Epox 8RDA+ (NForce 2)
2 x 256MB Samsung DDR333
Western Digital 80GB w/ 8MB Cache
Hercules Radeon 8500LE w/128MB DDR and s-video out
Antec Plus 1080 case and PS
Logitech Z-540 speakers.

I haven't done any tweaking of my system, but I have slightly overclocked the graphics card processor and memory using Powerstrip.

Let me know which games you want me to test and I will report back with the results tomorrow (hopefully).  Also I just use mame32 so tell me what settings you'd like me to have.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[radiator]

right, settings...

just tripplebuffer/waitvsync (do 2 tests with either, one off and one on)

try the following games, and make a note of their speed (%age) and framerate - also note down any other probs you're getting (sound/video):

PacMan
Space Invaders
ESP Ra.De.
King of Fighters 98

so, 2 vertical games (modern and old) and 2 horizontal games (again, modern and old)


i'll start the ball rolling...you already know my computer spec (scroll up ) and i get exactly the same results from each game:

Through TV:

tripplebuffer on:
all games run between 95% and 100%, framerate is around 5 below the maximum
sound skips

tripplebuffer off:
all games run 100%, max framerate (constantly) with no other problems (apart from the video tearing)


Through monitor:
(don't bother if its too much hassle to connect a monitor to yer cab!)

tripplebuffer off/on:
Games run 100% max framerate (constant) perfect sound (tripplebuffer off results in video tearing again)

[cdbrown]

I'll take a look in a couple of hours when I go home, and then report back tomorrow.

One thing to check - do you have the latest ATI catalyst drivers installed and perhaps the control panel.  In the control panel you choose that you are using a tv and specify what type NTSC as well as some other items.  Sure you probably have this but maybe not set up properly.

Does your card allow output to vga and tv at the same time?  If so have you checked by having them both on at the same time what it does to your system?  Perhaps when you plug the tv in it thinks it has to output to both the tv and vga which could increase the load.  By making it to only output to tv may free up some processes in the card?

If it's a problem with 50Hz then I should come across the same thing as PAL is 50Hz while NTSC is (roughly) 60Hz.

Note - the latest catalyst drivers now support a few different PAL tv's, the older versions did not.  Definitely check your version of the drivers and update as necessary.

EDIT - before you try the monitor - tv together read this

Cheers
-cdbrown

[radiator]

yeah, got the latest drivers - only downloaded them a month or two ago

the card does allow tv and vga output at the same time, but if no monitor is physically plugged into the card, it disables it

i think it must be something to do with the tv output on the card, or the fact that my tv is only 50Hz

[cdbrown]

Ok, did some tests last night and having triplebuffer enabled is nothing but trouble on my setup.

With triplebuffer on all the games I tried would only run at 50fps which is 82% for PacMan, 83% for Space Invaders, 87% for Esp Ra De and 83% for KOF 98.  All games clearly had sound stuttering which seemed like it was slowing down waiting for the video to catch up.

Turn triplebuffer off and all games ran smoothly at 100%, no sound problems and no noticable tearing (it may have happened but I couldn't tell).

With triplebuffer off I tried it with Wait for VSync on and the fps jump between 56 and 61 out of 60 every second (KOF 98) but no problem with sound or picture that I could tell. Didn't see any difference between having it on or off except when I looked at the fps (F11).

NBA Maximum Hangtime on the otherhand has sound problems without triplebuffer and vsync.  When I get rid off enable aspect ratio it sounds better and with ddraw off it runs beautifully - although the picture is so squished you can't play.

I disabled the switch resolution and refresh rate and set res to 800x600, depth to 16bit, refresh to 60Hz, put ddraw and hdware stretch back on and only had very minor sound problems.

I'm going to do some tweaks to the OS, ensure my desktop is 800x600, 16bit and o/c the graphics card to see if that will help.  I may try it at 640x480 to see if that changes anything.

There is definitely a problem with triplebuffer bringing the fps down to 50.  What is triplebuffer supposed to do - match the refresh rate of the output?  TV has a refresh rate of 50Hz, triplebuffer brings the fps down to 50fps.  On a monitor the refresh could be anything and most likely will be above 60Hz therefore triplebuffer doesn't affect the fps.  

Maybe someone with an NTSC tv that has the 60Hz refresh could take a look  

Cheers
-cdbrown

[radiator]

well, my bro's tv supports 60Hz, but it only has SCART input...

[radiator]

UPDATE (for anyone thats still interested )

i have managed to get MAME working, full speed, with tripplebuffer enabled...

if you have an ATI card, right click the desktop to get to yer display properties, then goto the 'Settings' tab and click 'Advanced', then click the 'Direct 3D' tab and turn the 'Wait for Vertical Sync' to always off.

this will allow me to run MAME, with tipplebuffer enabled, and not get any nasty sound skipping or dodgy frame-rates

woohoo

(although i do still get some video tearing, but it's not as noticable as before)

[EDIT]
oh, and version 3.4 of the Catalyst drivers are now available to d/l from ATI's site

[radiator]

BUMP (and another update...)

well, i tried the computer through 2 more tv's (both support 60Hz) and still get the problem, so it's not down to the fact my tv only supports 50Hz...

damn...i thought that would've been the problem...now i'm totally clueless

i just need to know of a few peoples setup's that are also using a tv, but NOT getting the problem, at least then i can figure out what's NOT causing it...

hmmmm

 

[EDIT]
sod it, i'm gonna work on a nice, polite and informative letter (email) to send to a few of the mame dev's...surely one of them would know what's going on (provided i give them enough info)