Popeye cocktail repair help needed

[ElfShotTheFood]

hi guys.   I have a popeye cocktail that has had one of its hinges ripped off.  i have managed to find a really close replacement hinge, now i need to find out the best way to repair the particle board where the hinge was. (pic 1)  also there were some metal things under the particle board that the hinge screwed in to.  any ideas as to what those metal things are called so i can find some?  (pic 2)

thanks

[whammoed]

1. Bondo
2. Those are some kind of "insert nuts"...can't tell exactly what kind from the pic.

[sstorkel]

The metal pieces may be threaded inserts or they may be T-nuts. Threaded inserts are usually made of brass with threads on both the inside and outside of the insert. They screw into a hole from the outside. T-nuts are steel, or maybe aluminum. They have a large, flat back with prongs. You pound them into a hole from the inside. I suppose they might also be the "cap nuts" used with some knock-down hardware. Cap nuts are available in a pretty limited range of sizes, so they're probably a long shot.

The Woodcraft website has examples of all three...

[BobA]

The pull out pic looks like they were probably some sort of tee nut put in from the backside.   You may be able to bondo some new nuts in place if you can get the right size.

[ElfShotTheFood]

well after comparing t-nuts to threaded inserts i would have to guess my table had t-nuts by the way it ripped out so much of the particle board.   so i guess i need to figure out what size t-nuts i need by measuring the hole.  then place the t-nuts in the proper place for them to meet up with the hinge, and fill in the hole with bondo.   

so how am i going to be able to keep the t-nuts in place while i fill the hole?   

Should i clean out the ripped up particle board to make a nice rectangular hole?

any tips on working with bondo?

it doesnt sound like fun, but it will be nice to have this thing fixed up.   thanks alot.

[bigh4th]

I'm not too famililiar with nintendo cocktails, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance on the matter.

If the monitor is fixed to the top of the table (part that opens) then I wouldn't trust bondo there.  Unless you're using the bondo-glass (which has fiberglass in it, and even that may not work), then you'll quickly find out that bondo doesn't have much tensile strength.  Its intended use if for creating a smooth surface for painting over.  Another issue is I don't know how well bondo will stick to un-finished particle board.

If the table top is just basicly a lid to get into the machine (which I beleive it is), then bondo may work fine as long as you're not rough with the lid.

However, if I were in your position and had accent to a router, a circular saw, and a drill, I would just make a new table top.  From what I can tell from the pics,  the top looks like a sandwich of either 1/2"-3/4" particle board on bottom with either 1/2"-1/4" birch (or luan) ply on top to make a total of a 1" thick top.

Closely trim the new board a little larger than the original top, clamp the top and new board together, and then hit it with the router and a flush-trim bit.

Thats just me though.

-Harry

[sstorkel]

well after comparing t-nuts to threaded inserts i would have to guess my table had t-nuts by the way it ripped out so much of the particle board.   so i guess i need to figure out what size t-nuts i need by measuring the hole.  then place the t-nuts in the proper place for them to meet up with the hinge, and fill in the hole with bondo.

T-nuts are sized like any other nut: by the size of the bolt that they will accept. What size bolts do your hinges require?

so how am i going to be able to keep the t-nuts in place while i fill the hole?

You're not. The way that T-nuts work is that you drill a pilot hole, then hammer the T-nut into the hole from the back. The bolt is then inserted from the front of the hole. If you can't insert the T-nut from the back, you'll need to use a threaded insert.

[ElfShotTheFood]

well i don't want to take the tabletop apart to hammer in tnuts from the back,  so i guess it will have to be the threaded inserts, i guess.   i was thinking of getting some really long bolts for the hinge and putting the t-nuts on the end, then placing them in the hole and fill in around them.  the longer bolts should (in theory) let me fill in the area around the t-nuts, and hold them in the proper place for mounting the hinge with the proper size screws later.

but then again, i am no woodworking expert.  thats why i came here.   


 the tabletop is kinda heavy so it doesnt sound like bondo will be good to repair the hole where the hinge is mounted.   so what is the best wood filler/putty/epoxy?

oh yeah,  the monitor is not mounted to the table top.

[sstorkel]

well i don't want to take the tabletop apart to hammer in tnuts from the back,  so i guess it will have to be the threaded inserts, i guess.   i was thinking of getting some really long bolts for the hinge and putting the t-nuts on the end, then placing them in the hole and fill in around them.  the longer bolts should (in theory) let me fill in the area around the t-nuts, and hold them in the proper place for mounting the hinge with the proper size screws later.

This is a good idea, but it won't work. The problem is that you won't be able to set the T-nuts from the front. You'd have to pull the T-nut against the wood hard enough for the prongs to catch, while at the same time screwing in the bolt. I haven't tried it myself, but I suspect that you either won't be able to get the prongs to catch or you'll have to pull so hard you crack the wood.

Just use a threaded insert. They're easy to set and should work fine. Woodcraft sells special T-handle tools that can be used to install the inserts. Buy one. Trust me: they make the process much easier. If you try to use a flat-blade screwdriver, you'll invariably end up gouging the wood. DAMHIKT.

the tabletop is kinda heavy so it doesnt sound like bondo will be good to repair the hole where the hinge is mounted.   so what is the best wood filler/putty/epoxy?

I've used System 3's Sculpwood product and been pleased with the results. It's a two-part, epoxy-based putty that you kneed together to activate. It's pretty pricey, though. They also sell a product called "Rot Fix" that's pretty cool. It's a thinned two-part epoxy. If you've got wood that's damaged or weak, you can pour Rot Fix over it, the wood will soak it up, and when the epoxy cures everything will be rock solid!

That said, I'd be surprised if Bondo didn't make a product that could work. Check out the fillers that have fiberglass or other additives to improve the strength and rigidity.

[ElfShotTheFood]

so should i maybe cut out the whole damaged area and replace it with a piece of wood with the t-nuts and hinge already mounted and then just glue/putty/epoxy the new piece in place?   

it will only be seen when the lid is open so looking good is not even close to as important as how strong it will be.

[bigh4th]

Thats actualy not a bad idea, depending on the thickness of the top.  I would trust that more than any kind of "filler/putty" that you would put in there.

Is the top a sandwich of particle board/plywood, or is it particle board with a thin laminate on top?  Its hard for me to tell from any pics of nintendo cocktails I can find.

If its a sandwich of ply/particle, your best bet would be to use a plunge router to cut the area of particle board out.  Just set depth stop where it is gliding accross the layer of plywood, but not cutting it.  This will remove the particle board, yet leave the plywood so you have something to glue the replacement piece to.

If you don't have a router or are leary of doing this, there are probably some woodworking or cabinet shops in the area that would be happy to do this for you.

Now if the top is particle board with a thin laminate on top.....your only two choices are the putty/filler method, or replace the whole top.

-Harry

[ElfShotTheFood]

i haven't actually measured it but it is about 1/4 in of particle board and then probably 1/8th in plywood with a laminate coating, then the glass.

i don't have a plunge (or any other kind of) router, but i do have a dremel that will do the job.
 
any certain wood glue that would work the best?

[sstorkel]

so should i maybe cut out the whole damaged area and replace it with a piece of wood with the t-nuts and hinge already mounted and then just glue/putty/epoxy the new piece in place?

If you want maximum strength, this is definitely the best way to go. It's potentially quite a bit more work, however.

For glue, I'd suggest using yellow wood glue. The Titebond brand is pretty much the gold standard.

[ElfShotTheFood]

Thanks alot guys.  i'll be going to lowes tonight, and hopefully fix it tomorrow. 

I'll be sure to post pics of it finished.

thanks again.