Bloodbath only a few hours away

[danny_galaga]

5.3 is damn low.  I think I'm at 5.875.  We didn't have the pocket cash to pay points and get it any lower.   

funny about that. just the other week my housemate and i realised that we didnt even know what our mortgage rate was! the reason? we are so comfortable we just havent been paying attention. if i had to pay DOUBLE the payments i could still manage (but THEN id be watching every cent, thats for sure). I own my house with my sister though, she'll know the rate 

[shardian]

Not entirely true. The median income (4-person family) in Massachusetts was the same as Michigan, when I moved out here in 2001. Haven't checked it since. And housing prices were/are OUTRAGEOUS.


EDIT:

Even right now, there's not a tremendous difference:

Massachusetts - 85,420
Michigan - 71,542

The job market makes all the difference. Michigan is hardest hit with foreclosures because of a loss of manufacturing jobs as the auto industry struggles. I know. My people are there, they're being effected and it sucks.

You consider 14000 not a difference for median incomes? Dude, that is a years worth of $1200 mortgage payments.

[Hoopz]

Not entirely true. The median income (4-person family) in Massachusetts was the same as Michigan, when I moved out here in 2001. Haven't checked it since. And housing prices were/are OUTRAGEOUS.


EDIT:

Even right now, there's not a tremendous difference:

Massachusetts - 85,420
Michigan - 71,542

The job market makes all the difference. Michigan is hardest hit with foreclosures because of a loss of manufacturing jobs as the auto industry struggles. I know. My people are there, they're being effected and it sucks.

You consider 14000 not a difference for median incomes? Dude, that is a years worth of $1200 mortgage payments.

Almost 20% more.  That's a big difference. 

[ChadTower]

$14000 difference won't cover a year of $1200 mortgage payments.  That is only like $8000-9000 in actual takehome pay.  It is definitely a substantial difference in median income, though.

A 20% difference is really big when talking in medians.

[NinjaEpisode]

The job market makes all the difference. Michigan is hardest hit with foreclosures because of a loss of manufacturing jobs as the auto industry struggles. I know. My people are there, they're being effected and it sucks.

I can attest to this.  Those of us living in Michigan right now are fighting to keep our jobs and while the rest of the world is just now realizing that the economy might be in trouble, we've been feeling it heavily for at least a year now if not longer.

That being said, however, I think there is a mixed bag of blame to go around when it comes to the mortgage crisis.  Those that are alleged "victims" here either

a.) bought entirely outside of their means, meaning they were approved for a loan and subsequently a monthly mortgage payment that, while working they could afford just fine, but if one of them got laid off, suddenly that payment was no where near attainable.  Basically they bit off more than they could chew.

or

b.) Mortgage companies snowed them in to no-interest for x period loans or interest-only loans that sounded just too good to pass up.  The most ridiculous concept I've heard of is an interest-only loan.  Banks don't give anything away for free people.  You're going to have to pay on that principal at some point.   

In Michigan, interest-only loans were marketed heavily through radio, television, and print media.  To a manufacturing  line worker making a set hourly wage, it was looked upon as a way to move up in the world and achieve a greater standing.

Not every line-worker is as smrt as Chad and has the ability or know-how to research the best mortgage and consequences of that mortgage.  They relied heavily on their loan institutions to tell them what was the right thing to do.

[shardian]

Not every line-worker is as smrt as Chad and has the ability or know-how to research the best mortgage and consequences of that mortgage.  They relied heavily on their loan institutions to tell them what was the right thing to do.

if you can't read "An Idiots guide to Homebuying", or at least pay attention when the media screams at you, "DON"T GET AN INTEREST ONLY LOAN!!!!!!", then you really shouldn't be buying  a house.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would get an interest only loan, or work out a payment that leads to negative amortization. If you're gonna do that, just go ahead and rent. Then you have zero liability to the property other than your security deposit.

[ChadTower]

Don't get me wrong... I'm not bashing the people in lower income jobs.  Those people work as hard or harder than I ever will.  I'm criticizing the thought process of relying on a salesperson to make monster life decisions for you.  Would they go into a car dealership and expect the salesman to get them the lowest price and the best financing deal?  Or would they expect the car salesman to try and get them to pay the highest price possible with the most profitable car loan?  A house is the same - only the stakes are devastatingly higher.

Maybe it makes me an ---uvula--- - I really don't know - but I find it unbearably frustrating when I bust ass for years to achieve something independently, succeed at it, and then see so many others who tried to play the system and failed get bailed out by the gov't.  Did that proposed ARM balloon due date freeze ever happen?  I can't remember now.

(that last sentence applies mostly to the people who speculated and lost - the ARM "victims" - and the people who spent well beyond their means.  I'm not such as ---uvula--- that I can't see there are also many people who simply lost their jobs in a declining economy and haven't been able to recover in time)

[NinjaEpisode]

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would get an interest only loan, or work out a payment that leads to negative amortization.

I totally agree, but, obviously there are millions(probably more like thousands) of Americans who did just that.

I'm criticizing the thought process of relying on a salesperson to make monster life decisions for you.  Would they go into a car dealership and expect the salesman to get them the lowest price and the best financing deal?  Or would they expect the car salesman to try and get them to pay the highest price possible with the most profitable car loan?  A house is the same - only the stakes are devastatingly higher.

Difference in Michigan is that probably 75-80% of car sales are on an employee purchase plan either because you work directly for the big 3 or have a relative that does.  The dealership still assists in getting a loan, but when you work for the manufacturer and can have the payment come right out of your paycheck, it's not too difficult to get a loan.

Not to mention a very common site is to see a brand new vehicle sitting in front of a complete shack of a home.  You can drive through the worst neighborhoods in Detroit and see Hummers, Cadillacs, Jaguars parked everywhere and the houses look like they should be condemned.

[shardian]

I'm criticizing the thought process of relying on a salesperson to make monster life decisions for you.  Would they go into a car dealership and expect the salesman to get them the lowest price and the best financing deal? 

Yes. Most definitely yes. The same idiotic people who think "retail price" is a completely fair price.

Maybe it makes me an ---uvula--- - I really don't know - but I find it unbearably frustrating when I bust ass for years to achieve something independently, succeed at it, and then see so many others who tried to play the system and failed get bailed out by the gov't.  Did that proposed ARM balloon due date freeze ever happen?  I can't remember now.

(that last sentence applies mostly to the people who speculated and lost - the ARM "victims" - and the people who spent well beyond their means.  I'm not such as ---uvula--- that I can't see there are also many people who simply lost their jobs in a declining economy and haven't been able to recover in time)

Yes, it does suck to play by the rules and scrape by while other people screw around and get supported/bailed out and come out smelling like roses. That's the way it is though. Government help is abused all the time, but in many cases people who truly need it do get it - even though it seems rare.

Honestly, I don't think unemplyment played that big of a part in this. The way the housing market value was exploding, MANY people thought they could buy, live in, then flip a house and basically net free rent for a year or two and make a few grand on top of that. Then the market saturated, the prices froze, and those desirable short term ARM's came a calling.

[shardian]

Not to mention a very common site is to see a brand new vehicle sitting in front of a complete shack of a home.  You can drive through the worst neighborhoods in Detroit and see Hummers, Cadillacs, Jaguars parked everywhere and the houses look like they should be condemned.

You might be a redneck dumbass if your car is worth more than your house.