Frustrating Frontends

[russtophiles]

Okay, so I'm looking around for a decent looking, simple to use frontend for my cab in progress. I checked the software tab here and nabbed pretty much every single FE there was. Every single one of them failed in one way or another. First of all, I'm running a dual boot Win 98/2000, I've tried all the FEs with both OS's. Let's go down the list:

fe3Darcade - Very slow and cumbersome for what I'm looking for, couldn't get any of my roms to play either after extensive configuring.

Arcade OS - Ugly, proportions messed up, too much like an application than a menu.

Advance Mame - Managed to have that actually PLAY the games under command line which is obviously not what I'm looking for, and Advance menu did NOT work no matter how many times I read over the documentation.

Lazarus - Constantly giving .dll errors after already having downloaded ALL necessary libraries and files. Also made start bar permanently disappear until I rebooted. The single time it did start it just showed the intro and went to a blank template screen and crashed.

Arcade FX - Not bad looking but the interface is bad if you don't have screenshots or something visual to represent the games, confusing way of browsing, never got any games playing either.

Gamelaunch - Can never get it to list my rom files correctly, and when it does they don't play.

Mamewah - I got close with this one...but it doesn't play the games either.

All I want is a decent looking frontend that I can preferably customize a background image for the menus, font styles and sizes, something that actually PLAYS the games, one that can rotate 90 and 180 degrees, preferably with an assignable single button press. My roms ARE good since I used them just fine with MAME32 before on the same machine.

I've read up on everything I can and NOTHING is giving me any results. I've spent this entire day looking over readmes and documentation and have come to absolutely no success. This is incredibly irritating, so if anyone has any insight or ideas I'd really appreciate it.

[Smack]

In regards to Advance Menu, you don't need to use Advance Mame with it. I'm using it in conjunction with my own compile of Analog Mame. (Under Windows 98) What version of MAME are you using in conjunction with the frontend?

Are you specifying it in the configuration files?

Maybe if you post your configuration file, one of us here can help out.

I had needed a frontend that rotated for my cocktail cab. Personally, I like Advance Menu the best. (Game Launcher rotates too.) Both highly configurable too.

Game Launcher is pretty cool once you get it set up. Did you specify the right paths and everything? If I recall, you have to run one utility first that will create the list for the main executable to use. (It been a while since I set it up.)

Mamewah was pretty straightforward too. That one should be pretty much straight outta the box.

I too had numerous problems with Lazarus and dumped it. (I had just wanted to see what it could do but didn't have the patience to figure it out after all the errors and system hangs.)

The way it sounds to me is that you're mis-interpreting something in the read-mes. I think seeing your config files will help.

My 2 cents.

Smack

[Howard_Casto]

Russ your are going to get mad but with all due respect get over it.  So basically what you are saying is the ones you could get working weren't good enough for you and the ones you liked you couldn't get working.  

I'm sorry, but if you can't get mamewah to work then your problem is your aren't good with software, period.  

I suggest you find one you like and stick with it.  All of the fe authors put a great deal of hard work into their software so you could enjoy it and all they expect out of you is the willing-ness to do the same towards configuring them.  

Also you have just about ran the guantlet of all the fe's out there so I'm really curious as to why you would make such a post.  Emutron and emuloader are all that's left, literally.  So try those, get fed up and then go away.

[cdbrown]

Very good response Howie .  I find it amazing how people can just criticise FREE programs because they don't work or are ugly.  As well, I noticed he didn't actually ask any questions on how to get things to work.  Mind you, I'm still yet to used an FE, happy with mame32 for the time being, but will be venturing into the FE realm very shortly so hopefully all is not as bad as Russ would lead us to believe.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Thumpa]

Gamelauncher is awsome with nice non fuss look and easy Player operation but has not been updated in a while.
Also its a lot of work reconfiguring when there is a new version of mame and u need to update any categoriey menu's (ie sport/fighting etc) u might have.Almost impossible with other newer/better emulators.

I switched to Mamewah which is a lot easier to set up and will be even better when new version with arcadevga support etc.

I think all the FE's still being developed are 100% better than they used to but maybe ease of use for the masses will be the next logical step?
Possibly some type of wizard for setting up multi emulator paths and roms/snaps directories would solve a lot of problems?
Also a easy method for updating emu's within the FE when new version released like utilising catver.ini's /dat's or goodtools rom/snap renamer similar to gamelaunchers map/rom files.

Maybe these features are present in the flasher FE's out there but it seems u have to be lucky to have the right OS/Hardware/DLL's/Visualbasicverxxx/6 year computer sience degree/Karma to get going.

Still beat's no FE at all though and the price is right (Free!!) so keep perservering.
Thanks to all FE developers out there.

[)p(]

I think all the FE's still being developed are 100% better than they used to but maybe ease of use for the masses will be the next logical step?

I think there is room for both more complex fe's and easy to setup fe's like mamewah.

I prefer flexibitly and options...we make them for our own use in the first place ;-) That being said we have been moving to being more user friendly. For example setting up mame to run is just a few point and clicks now in the listsmanager in my fe. And I must say I have been getting much less email with basic questions like that...and those I get in most cases did not even bother to read the quick setup guide in the fereadme.

But as there is so much other stuff a lot of people will get overwhelmed and for a lot of those people a simple easy to setup fe is probably a much better choice then the more complex fe's.

peter

[Nil8er]

I am currently using M.A.M.E.F.E.
I like it.
Here's the link: http://mamefe.mameworld.net/

[Nailz]

Russ,  I would suggest you pick the one you would really like to get working the most like Howard said, and bang on it for awhile longer.  Most of the guys that made these great FE's are in here often.  If you are still having trouble, post some specific issues you are having.  They always seem more than willing to help out.

Good Luck!

[rampy]

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that if all the FE's don't work there might be something unusual about your setup that makes it difficult for someone setting up their respective front ends...

i.e.  do you have all your roms in a folder on your desktop or some weird folder with spaces/strange chars in it?  

Can you get your roms to work stand alone on the command line with regular mame (not 32 gui varient)... it sounded like you got it working with advancemame from the command line... that's always a good start to make sure .rc or .ini files  (depending on advance mame or regular mame) are in order.  

*shrug* it's good to make things simple to begin with to get stuff working...  i.e. c:\mame\ and c:\mame\roms   (/snaps... etc etc)  you can get fancy/cute later once you get A FE running well and tweak to your hearts content...

I sympathize with you... I really do.  I'm currently in a bit of doldrums over fustration with FE's on my cabinet since I moved to windoze... (But that's a different story)  Haven't touched my cabinet in like 2 weeks (also about the time I started to play CS... go figure)  It does take some patience and dilligence to things going regardless of FE...

Although I'm optimistic that DxLaz will be called Panacea (did I win HC?)

*shrug*

Rampy

[russtophiles]

I was in an immense state of irritation when I created this thread, so don't mind me if some of my criticisms seemed a bit rash. I'm actually quite good with software, but when you're messing with a dozen of them at once trying to get one going right things can become massively complicated. I made a tad bit of progress last night with a few of them however. Mamewah looks the most promising so far from what I've done. I think the problem lied in the fact that I was using the latest DOS version of MAME (.67) with all the FE's, and as such NONE of them seemed to play games correctly.

I'm guessing that most of the FE's out there aren't quite compatible with the latest MAME releases yet, which fortunately isn't a problem for me since the FE I need is for a cocktail cabinet, which doesn't really need the most up to date version of MAME to run it. I tried a few FE's with MAME .53b and also with MAME32, and did experience much more success in having games run instead of the FE crashing or hanging or what have you. Now currently Mamewah seems to do what I need it to, nice and simple, save for one detail. What I need is a way to toggle between monitor orientations. Even better, if I could have one button rotate the screen 180 degrees, and one to rotate 90 degrees, that'd be PERFECT. Unfortunately from what I've explored in Mamewah so far, I don't see those kind of options. (Update: I did in FACT just find that Advance menu has this option, excellent)

Many of you have recommended GameLauncher or Advance Menu for this problem. The problem with Gamelauncher is that after editing the MAME config file, the glaunch config file, and the mamescan config file to work right, it still just either has a large premade list of roms, many of which I don't have, or if I tell it to scan for roms, it gives me like....two or three random clones which still don't seem to play at all. I tried running Mamescan, but that didn't seem to do anything either.

As for Advance menu, that one finally ended up working with MAME32, but not MAME .53b oddly enough. The only thing is that you can still see the start bar and all..... any tips on how to take the mouse cursor out of view and take out the start bar to make it look less windows-ey? If so this might work out well with a little visual font and color tweaking. I'd post up my config files.....but there's so many from so many different FE's with so many variations that it'd take forever to find one that I actually am currently trying. Thanks for the feedback guys. I just needed that "serenity now" chant....

EDIT: Hmm...actually, in Advance Menu in the MENU you can toggle the screen orientation, but I was really looking for something that you could use -in game-....am I overlooking something?

[liquid8]

I know how you feel... there is no real *plug&play* frontends... not to the fault of the frontend authors, but just because there are so many different emulators and setups to deal with. I am currently working on an FE (oh no, not another!) and am trying to keep user friendly at the top of my list. But it is not as easy as it sounds. Things still have to be setup by the user to work properly.

That being said, I know there are many people happily using every one of the frontends mentioned perfectly fine. Yes, some are more of a pain in the @$$ to setup, but most likely if that is the case you will get more out of it in the long run.

LiQuiD8

[)p(]

What I need is a way to toggle between monitor orientations. Even better, if I could have one button rotate the screen 180 degrees, and one to rotate 90 degrees, that'd be PERFECT. Unfortunately from what I've explored in Mamewah so far, I don't see those kind of options. (Update: I did in FACT just find that Advance menu has this option, excellent)

I think you have covered most of the fe's with this option emulaxian, arcadeos, advancemenu. I can think of two others the orginal cocktail fe and Emutron you could also give a shot.

[wee beastie]

If you're looking for simple just use mame32 or Arcade@Home frontend.  These are the easiest out there.  Sure they look windowsy, but they are simple.  Eventually I think you'll start tinkering more with the more advanced ones.

[Luxury]

I think the problem lied in the fact that I was using the latest DOS version of MAME (.67) with all the FE's, and as such NONE of them seemed to play games correctly.

this might be one of your problems.  Try using the windows version of mame instead of the dos version - but NOT mame32

I'm guessing that most of the FE's out there aren't quite compatible with the latest MAME releases yet,

Not true.  what version of mame you run should have no effect at all to the FE.  This is what makes them so flexible - you can always upgrade any of you emulators, and they will work no matter what.

I agree with the others.  just read through each FE's features and decide what your ideal set-up would be.  Then just pound away at that one until you get it.  And remember - mame is EASY to set up in a FE compared to many (almost all) other emulators.  

[rampy]

I think what you are trying to do is usually done in config files for mame (determining which games get orientated which way  (i.e. ror or rol  or whatever))

*Shrug* you might want to start a specific thread about that unless someone pipes up on this thread for it (i don't have a cocktail so....)

goodluck,

rampy

[Smack]

*Shrug* you might want to start a specific thread about that unless someone pipes up on this thread for it (i don't have a cocktail so....)

You don't have a cocktail? Grab the umbrella and mix one up!

Smack

[Halen]

I think the problem lied in the fact that I was using the latest DOS version of MAME (.67) with all the FE's, and as such NONE of them seemed to play games correctly.

I'm guessing that most of the FE's out there aren't quite compatible with the latest MAME releases yet, which fortunately isn't a problem for me since the FE I need is for a cocktail cabinet, which doesn't really need the most up to date version of MAME to run it.

That would be an incorrect conclusion.  Just last week I made the change from Windows 98. Raging Dragon, and windows mame .57 to Windows XP, Lazarus, and windows mame .67.  The process took me about an hour, not including the OS upgrade.

Never once did I have an error or a problem.

I would recommend that you don't use the DOS version under Windows.  I would also recommend that you might want to upgrade Windows soon.

Otherwise it sounds like the problem is less with the FE's and more with your particular system config.

[Mike]

Every frontend out there that you listed works. Your problem is definately an ID-10-T error. For example, i bet your problem with arcadefx not launch is that your using something where the mame executable is not mame.exe. Your using the one called dmame.exe. All you need to do is rename it and it should work. Rather than beach about your problems why don't you ask someone to help you come up with a solution.

[shmokes]

God, it's nothing personal Howard.  You can't let these things give you ulcers.  His post was not aimed at Frontend developers, it was aimed at the many users here who have potentially worked through all of the same problems.  It'd be one thing if he just downloaded a FE and showed up here in a tizzy five minutes later, but it's clear from the original post that he put a lot of effort into trying to figure out what the problem was.  He tried just about every FE available and really tried to make things work.  I see no reason why he should just try each front end and then "go away" if he can't manage it on his own.  That's why there's a BYOAC forum.  

...if anyone has any insight or ideas I'd really appreciate it.

[Howard_Casto]

God, it's nothing personal Howard.  You can't let these things give you ulcers.  His post was not aimed at Frontend developers, it was aimed at the many users here who have potentially worked through all of the same problems.  It'd be one thing if he just downloaded a FE and showed up here in a tizzy five minutes later, but it's clear from the original post that he put a lot of effort into trying to figure out what the problem was.  He tried just about every FE available and really tried to make things work.  I see no reason why he should just try each front end and then "go away" if he can't manage it on his own.  That's why there's a BYOAC forum.  

...if anyone has any insight or ideas I'd really appreciate it.

He wasn't asking for help, he was just complaining under the guise of a plee for help.  Everyone thus far has seen that except for you.  

Anyway he's already said he over-reacted so it's not a big deal.  He let it go, I let it go, why don't you?

[shmokes]

careful....ulcers....

[Smittydc]

Howard takes any criticism of frontends personally... no big surprise there.  

Still, it does seem to me that russ might have cycled through trying the different frontends too quickly and the setup directions and options for each might have conflicted.  I'd recommend trying a clean install of dos mame and mamewah.  If you're really frustrated use mame32 alone, installed in it's own directory.

Keep trying.  They work.

That said, would it really be that hard for the FE installer programs to prompt for the bare minimum setup options (emulator name and  directory, rom directory) so that the programs actually work after they install?  People are pretty spoiled nowadays.

[)p(]

That said, would it really be that hard for the FE installer programs to prompt for the bare minimum setup options (emulator name and  directory, rom directory) so that the programs actually work after they install?  People are pretty spoiled nowadays.

I decided against it because I wanted people to get a taste of the main cfg utility form the start.

And really if you only take a minute to read the first section of the quick setup guide everybody should be able to have the basics running in a few minutes.

quote:
-First we will setup the fe to work with mame by adjusting the pathnames and executable options for the mame emulator. In the main configuration menu select the listmanager. Then click on the mame emulator in the emulator section and choose edit emulator. In section 1 point emupath and workingdir to your mame folder. It is recommended to setup your rompaths in mame's own ini file. If you do that keep gamepath empty. If not point gamepath to the folder you keep your roms in. In section 2 point sshot, marquees, flyers and cabinets to their folders on your system. In section 3 point mame to your mame executable.
end quote:


And as I said it looks to have worked I get hardly any questions on how to get mame working in the fe anymore  

peter

[russtophiles]

Well, it seems I've found a solution that works pretty well all in all. I was just messing around with MAME the other day, and I just decided to check a few things in the tab menu while a game was playing. In the dipswitch menu, I found that with many games there was an orientation setting that could be switched between upright and cocktail, and switching it to cocktail gives me EXACTLY what I needed in terms of in game rotation, all I really wanted was for the screen to flip around when it's the other player's turn, and lo and behold, it did just that. At first I was surprised I hadn't thought about looking for that before, but then when you consider all the hardware options MAME emulates it only makes sense that it'd be an option.

So problem one solved, I still needed an FE that could also be oriented vertically that worked well for my purposes. Since my arcade folder on the machine I'm using for my cab is an unspeakable jumble of folders, exes, config files and otherwise I decided to give Advance Menu another crack by re-unzipping it in a place on my harddrive that wasn't as messy, and plunking all the MAME stuff in it. I set up the paths in the config file and making a few minor adjustments, it looks to be working just fine. Thanks to those of you who gave me helpful suggestions, and no thanks to those of you who felt the need to insult me for making a legitimate topic. I didn't try to pick any fights, I just want to be able to ask for advice without being flamed and contribute to the BYOAC community with my own exploits and projects.

Anyways, I'd like it if I could find like....a big ol pack of art for roms. (screenshots or game art...something good to be displayed in the FE for game selection) Is there anything like that or would I just have to go hunt down individual art files from somewhere like Mame.dk?

[)p(]

.

Anyways, I'd like it if I could find like....a big ol pack of art for roms. (screenshots or game art...something good to be displayed in the FE for game selection) Is there anything like that or would I just have to go hunt down individual art files from somewhere like Mame.dk?

for screenshots and titles images:
http://crashtest.retrogames.com/
for cabinets and flyers and screenshots with a white border:
http://www.classicgaming.com/mame32qa/


peter

[Howard_Casto]

That said, would it really be that hard for the FE installer programs to prompt for the bare minimum setup options (emulator name and  directory, rom directory) so that the programs actually work after they install?  People are pretty spoiled nowadays.

No but to use the old addage:  "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life."

I expect users to learn any front end completely so that they can use it to it's fullest potential.  Any of us CAN set it up that way, but then we have users who really don't know how to use a fe using it.  An when something goes a little off or they want to try something new guess who they bug.  

It's a matter of balancing user friendliness with not holding the users hand.  For me a "turn key" front end is just too easy.