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Author Topic: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!  (Read 6067 times)

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shardian

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Previously, I had bought a pcb on ebay and the guy poorly packed it and it broke in transit (so he said). I then went thru a 4 month hassle getting my money back.

Last week, I sold a Top Gunner pcb. I thoroughly packed it in a brand new, perfectly sized box. The buyer emailed me today and said the package looked like a monster truck had ran over it. The pcb has been bent horribly. I started a UPS claim, but I've heard the horror stories of trying to get them to fess up to breaking things.

Anyways, just wanted to vent a bit. Enjoy the pics, and remember, that box was crisp and brand new when it left my hands. ;)

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2007, 12:51:05 pm »
It's hard to tel if the person is trying to lie to you and the PCB never worked to begin with or if it really was broken during shipping. I try to be there to test any electronics i buy that is used.

shardian

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 12:52:58 pm »
It's hard to tel if the person is trying to lie to you and the PCB never worked to begin with or if it really was broken during shipping. I try to be there to test any electronics i buy that is used.

Regarding the one I bought, the guy claimed his mom shipped it. It was in an oversized box and the only packing material was...a single sheet of newspaper wrapped around the pcb. :laugh2:

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2007, 12:55:37 pm »
It sounds like you bought from a kid who needs his mommy to ship stuff for him... if only you knew.  :P

shardian

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2007, 12:59:50 pm »
It sounds like you bought from a kid who needs his mommy to ship stuff for him... if only you knew.  :P

Heh, I sent back the board at my cost in agreement that he would refund me. Well I never saw a refund. Finally, I saw him trying to sell the exact same board on ebay as "untested" a few months later. After I kindly pointed this out to him and mentioned I might be contacting his bidders, I suddenly saw a refund sitting in my paypal account. ;)

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2007, 01:02:35 pm »
It was in an oversized box and the only packing material was...a single sheet of newspaper wrapped around the pcb.

That's hilarious - It's always a gamble...

I won a laptop proc from eBay for $500 and change that came in a standard white envelope with no packing, protection, or anything. Just a proc in an envelope.

ChadTower

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2007, 01:05:36 pm »

I got a package from tommy once and it bit me.  I was like WTF, he said he trained these packages.   ;D

I usually double box PCBs.  Pack it well inside one box... then pack that into a second box with an inch or two of peanuts or newspaper.

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 01:07:09 pm »

I got a package from tommy once and it bit me.  I was like WTF, he said he trained these packages.   ;D




It would have been fine until you started beating the package and left it outside with no food or water for many weeks. :laugh2:

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 01:10:59 pm »

What was I supposed to do?  The thing kept dropping peanuts all over the rugs.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2007, 01:12:54 pm »
Regarding the one I bought, the guy claimed his mom shipped it. It was in an oversized box and the only packing material was...a single sheet of newspaper wrapped around the pcb. :laugh2:

What are you talking about??  My mommy did a great job packing that board.

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tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2007, 01:21:24 pm »

What was I supposed to do?  The thing kept dropping peanuts all over the rugs.


That's the sort of thing you have to expect from a dog that is not trained right. Don't blame the dog. Do you get mad when a baby shits his diaper?

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2007, 01:23:06 pm »

Wait, there were dogs in that package?  I ordered a PCB.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2007, 01:25:03 pm »
How did you pack it?  I've NEVER had a package arrive damaged.  If UPS' standards are followed, then it practically CAN survive a truck running over it.  Am I gonna have to school you on packing? :)

Wade

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2007, 01:25:42 pm »

Wait, there were dogs in that package?  I ordered a PCB.

There were small newborn pit bulls in there. Ah, that explains why you beat them.  :angry:

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2007, 01:27:34 pm »

Wait, there were dogs in that package?  I ordered a PCB.

There were small newborn pit bulls in there. Ah, that explains why you beat them.  :angry:

CHAD BEATS PUPPIES!!!
But wasn't it fun to think you won the lottery, just for a second there???

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2007, 01:29:10 pm »

I never even opened the package.  I swear.  tommy is the one who put puppies in a sealed box and handed them over to the USPS.

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2007, 01:30:19 pm »

I never even opened the package.  I swear.  tommy is the one who put puppies in a sealed box and handed them over to the USPS.


Lier, you opened it and the peanuts came out.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2007, 01:38:42 pm »

I didn't say I opened it.  I said it was dropping peanuts.  I'm filing a paypal chargeback.  I didn't order puppies.

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2007, 01:40:19 pm »

I didn't say I opened it.  I said it was dropping peanuts.  I'm filing a paypal chargeback.  I didn't order puppies.


What am i supposed to do with dead puppies you beat to a pulp only because they were pit bulls?

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2007, 01:41:08 pm »
The puppies must have broke out of the box, and the peanuts were coming out the hole they gnawed in the box.

CHAD!!!  BE CAREFUL!!!  Theres probably killer puppies roaming your house!
But wasn't it fun to think you won the lottery, just for a second there???

ChadTower

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2007, 01:44:23 pm »

Dammit.  I'm going to have to hire this chick to protect me. 

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2007, 01:47:17 pm »
Don't change the subject. I expect an answer.

Even though she does seem to handle that tool well, it is not important here and now.

ChadTower

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2007, 01:50:34 pm »

I didn't kill any puppies.  I didn't open the box.  If you packed your puppies improperly the fault is yours.  Or the shipper's.  File a dead puppy claim with the USPS.

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2007, 01:51:35 pm »
Let me speak to your manager!!

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2007, 01:54:48 pm »
I got a Mario Bros. PCB set from the US via Ebay. Arrived safely without any damage. It was pretty well packed in an oversized box with lots and lots of newspaper (with an interesting article about Apple to boot  :laugh2:)

Thing is, most people don't know how to pack things.  I worked for a computer monitor company (still CRT's then) and we often received monitors for repair not shipped in the original packaging (which meant NO guarantee). People dropped the monitor in some box that fitted, through in a load of chips and thought that would be ok. What happened next is that the stand of the monitor would go straight through the bottom of the monitor AND through the PCB. That meant a DOA  :laugh:

In the original packing, the stand is LOOSE from the monitor and the monitor "hangs" in the side foam parts.This prevents any strain on the monitor itself when the box is stacked etc.

I guess a PCB could be packed the same, using some kind of frame around it from very sturdy and light material, so that it takes any pressure. But heaps of newspaper seems to do the trick normaly...

O, and don't use UPS. I've never had ANY problems with good old Post (USPS etc.)


shardian

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 01:59:27 pm »
How did you pack it?  I've NEVER had a package arrive damaged.  If UPS' standards are followed, then it practically CAN survive a truck running over it.  Am I gonna have to school you on packing? :)

Wade

The pcb was bubblewrapped, with extra wrap being put on the component side. The box was lined with more bubble wrap - the thick stuff. Then the box was filled with crumpled newspaper and misc scrap paper. I always test my packing by shaking the hell out of it and tossing it around a bit - it was well protected and secured. "UPS standards"what does that mean? I've seen UPS pack, and all they do is fill a box halfway with peanuts, then drop in the item, then top off with peanuts.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 02:02:51 pm »

Maybe it was the tiny lightning storm from all the static electricity in that wrapping paper?   :)

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2007, 02:06:28 pm »
Chad and tommy stop please  :laugh2:
Back in MY day we lived on the moon and we had to build a rocket ship from scratch to get to the Earth before we suffocated.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2007, 02:08:44 pm »
Let me speak to your manager!!

Dude my wife doesn't even like dogs.  She's allergic.  She's not going to help you.  Especially since she said after the last dogs that I couldn't have anymore because they were taking up all the space in the house and none of the ones we have now work to begin with.

tommy

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2007, 02:10:52 pm »
I'm going to report you and your wife to the department of cruelty to electronics and stuff.

ChadTower

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2007, 02:14:40 pm »

Been there, done that.  I have immunity because I testified against SithMaster when they went after him for PCB malpractice.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2007, 02:20:53 pm »

Maybe it was the tiny lightning storm from all the static electricity in that wrapping paper?   :)

When it comes to bubblewrap, opinions are varied. Some people say that bubblewrap is fine. Others swear by antistatic bags, while most say aluminum foil works well as a static shield. using aluminum foil kind of freaked me out, so I just went with bubble wrap - not to mention the foil would just rip around all of the sharp points on a board anyways. If I was sending a $200 board, then yeah I would have went the extra mile and got a bag. Being this was a $20 board, secured bubble wrap was more than adequate. The risk of static ruining the board was minimal. I've received TONS of electronic goodies wrapped in bubble wrap and guess what? They all work just fine.

The only packing material that is a definite no-no is popcorn styrofoam. That crap is bad for the environment anyways. ;D

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2007, 02:22:22 pm »

It was a joke. 

Maybe this is a better joke. 


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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2007, 02:25:56 pm »
What's with all the comics lately?

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2007, 02:27:07 pm »

I've been reading through the whole Penny Arcade archive.  Brilliance.  Someone needs to make a Penny ArcadeCade cab.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2007, 02:28:22 pm »
What's with all the comics lately?

Yeah, and wheres the puppy beating comics?
But wasn't it fun to think you won the lottery, just for a second there???

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2007, 02:31:25 pm »
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20021028h.gif

Images changed to URL due to language. *bonk*
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 04:43:43 pm by saint »

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2007, 03:43:02 pm »
How did you pack it?  I've NEVER had a package arrive damaged.  If UPS' standards are followed, then it practically CAN survive a truck running over it.  Am I gonna have to school you on packing? :)

Wade

The pcb was bubblewrapped, with extra wrap being put on the component side. The box was lined with more bubble wrap - the thick stuff. Then the box was filled with crumpled newspaper and misc scrap paper. I always test my packing by shaking the hell out of it and tossing it around a bit - it was well protected and secured. "UPS standards"what does that mean? I've seen UPS pack, and all they do is fill a box halfway with peanuts, then drop in the item, then top off with peanuts.

The UPS workers don't follow their own packing standards (just as they don't actually look in each package for dangerous liquids, explosives, other un-shippable items), but if a package they pack for you is damaged you might get away with a claim more easily.

If you read the fine print on UPS/Fedex/etc packaging, they require the box to be packed until it is stiff and supportive, and is supposed to be able to support several hundred pounds (exactly how much, I don't know offhand).  It doesn't matter how much bubble wrap you use around a board, if your box alone can't withstand yourself standing on it, the bubble wrap isn't going to help it much when it ends up on the bottom of the pile in a truck.  Think more along the lines of the extra thick, weight-supporting boxes, or think about the boxes that something like a DVD player would come packed in.  It is a strong box and it is supported on the inside by styrofoam, and they can safely be stacked a few dozen tall without the bottom box crushing.  This is how UPS/Fedex expects their packages to be.  Anything less for a piece of breakable equipment, and it's your problem, not theirs.  Ever wonder why factory packaging is so good?

I have a piece of automotive tuning equipment that I used to rent out.  Because it was frequently shipped, I bought a plastic gun case for $20 and cut the foam inside to fit the part.  I shipped it many times in this case (which was enough by itself), but I also plopped the case into the original cardboard box too.  It didn't really matter what UPS did (short of losing the part), they weren't going to damage it by throwing it around or stacking other things on top of it.

Wade

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2007, 04:04:52 pm »
I don't really expect them to accept my claim (do they accept anyones claim?), but their response in this case will go a long way to determining if I use their service in the future. I've shipped tons of things and I expect a few corners of boxes to get dinged here and there. The condition of this box reminds me of the opening credits of Ace Ventura though. My packaging was more than adequate to absorb the normal transit bumps and bruises of shipping.

And for the record, supporting a weight of 100-200 lbs and having a 100-200 lb weight fall on your box violently are two very different things.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2007, 04:09:51 pm »
I NEVER use UPS.  I've only received damaged goods via mail twice and both times have been with UPS.  I've sold about 100 boards thus far and shipped USPS PRIORITY each and every time with insurance and each and every time they arrived without problem.
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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2007, 04:10:52 pm »

USPS is like protection money.  If you pay it, your stuff arrives in one piece... if you don't pay it, your package is dragged behind the truck by a rope.

shardian

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2007, 04:11:10 pm »
I NEVER use UPS.  I've only received damaged goods via mail twice and both times have been with UPS.  I've sold about 100 boards thus far and shipped USPS PRIORITY each and every time with insurance and each and every time they arrived without problem.


Yes, but what is USPS's rep when it comes to honoring insurance claims?

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2007, 04:11:17 pm »
I once received a PCB broken that was hand delivered, go figure.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2007, 11:25:31 pm »
FWIW, I've never had a damaged package with Fedex ground, and they have been consistently cheaper and faster than UPS (usually about 3 days coast to coast!).  Once every couple of years I ship with UPS because I'm in a pinch or forget, and every time I'm blown away by how expensive they are.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2007, 12:32:14 am »
FWIW, I've never had a damaged package with Fedex ground, and they have been consistently cheaper and faster than UPS (usually about 3 days coast to coast!).  Once every couple of years I ship with UPS because I'm in a pinch or forget, and every time I'm blown away by how expensive they are.

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I can second this, Wade. Never had any problems with FedEx ground and they've always come in cheaper than UPS.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2007, 07:18:49 am »
I've tended to go with UPS because thru my work I get special pricing. (Notice the past tense ;))

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2007, 09:38:30 pm »
Years ago, I purchased a mid-grade stereo system consisting of a receiver, CD changer and speakers. Both the receiver and changer failed within warranty. Since I had bought the system while on vacation, I was required to send the failed parts to a warranty service.

What happened next was basically just a nightmare.

To cover the warranty, I had to send everything, including speakers which had nothing wrong with them, back to the manufacturer. Each component had to go to a separate address  ??? Despite my protests, I was required to send everything back in the original boxes and via UPS.

When I sent the receiver in, it was a 2U four channel receiver. It took nearly six months to get it back. What I got back was a 4U five channel system with the original remote from the 2U unit. Different brand. The company refused a return because of the severe turn-around time pushed the receiver out of warranty.  :timebomb: It was a much more powerful system, but rather shoddily made and a cottage brand. Unfortunately, it did not have any packing whatsoever. No foam, no peanuts, not even a single sheet of newspaper. At least it survived.

The CD changer came back in two months. What I bought was a tray style changer, what I got back was a cartridge changer but it was in the original box. Being within warranty, I sent it back. The turn around time took so damn long that by the time it came back the second time, the warranty expired. The original foam was crumbled in order to fit the differently shaped player. When I got back the box the second time was essentially a squishy bag. The player survived, but I got none of the accessories back. None of the cables, remote, nothing.

Both speakers came in seperate boxes. The box only allowed approximately 1/2" of foam all the way around. The warranty service required this exact box. When I questioned UPS to find if it met their requirements, it did (got it in writing at the insistence of my father.) When the speakers arrived at the manufacturer, both speaker grill frames were destroyed. One box had the corner shattered. The ---smurfs--- actually hot glued the whole thing back together, making a fantastic mess. Then the fucknuts shipped the speakers back in the same ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up packaging sans foam! When I got it back, both speaker frames were dust, the same corner shattered again and there were a fantastic number of scratches all over the laminate sides as if they dragged them around on the floor.

It took months to pry a refund from UPS from their insurance department. Because the speaker boxes were rated 200watts each, not very many stores carried them at the time. I had to go to a specialist in the next city, pay the money out of my own pocket and mail a copy of the receipt back to UPS so they could cut me a check.

Before this, UPS used to be awesome. I got piles of ---Cleveland steamer--- through their deliveries, but at some point, they started sucking ass pretty bad.

Now it's all through USPS or, if I absolutely must, FedEx.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 09:40:54 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2007, 10:45:43 am »
I NEVER use UPS.  I've only received damaged goods via mail twice and both times have been with UPS.  I've sold about 100 boards thus far and shipped USPS PRIORITY each and every time with insurance and each and every time they arrived without problem.


Yes, but what is USPS's rep when it comes to honoring insurance claims?

I wouldn't know because I've never had to file one...when I pay the insurance the package seems to arrive every time without issue.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2007, 10:48:07 am »
...another great benefit going with USPS...

FREE BOXES.  I go on usps.gov and order a bunch of different sized boxes FREE...they are delivered FREE.  I always ship Priority with Insurance (unless it's a real light non-breakable CHEAP item then I'll skip on the insurance).  I alway get signature requirement as well.   Plus you can schedule a pickup FREE too.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2007, 01:07:03 am »
I have a friend that works at UPS. He said they played kickball with the packages.

That explained all the crushed boxes I used to get. :angry:

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2007, 06:41:56 am »
I have a friend that works at UPS. He said they played kickball with the packages.

That explained all the crushed boxes I used to get. :angry:

I keep envisioning the opening scene of Ace Ventura as to how they treat my packages.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2007, 06:15:20 pm »

Been there, done that.  I have immunity because I testified against SithMaster when they went after him for PCB malpractice.

But those pcbs wanted to be broken.  I am merely providing them a service.
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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2007, 09:30:32 am »
I keep envisioning the opening scene of Ace Ventura as to how they treat my packages.

I got a box from Goz once that looked like that.  Everything inside was fine, but it looked like it was drop-kicked around the warehouse a few times.

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2007, 04:57:49 pm »
Final update, UPS approved my claim.  ;D


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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2007, 06:43:23 pm »
On the KLOV forum there's a guy that shipped a 25" Amplifone vector CRT with UPS.

Guess what happened ?
 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:





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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2007, 07:18:30 pm »
On the KLOV forum there's a guy that shipped a 25" Amplifone vector CRT with UPS.

Guess what happened ?
 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


Ouch, and to make things worse, UPS ground has a standard limit of $100 insurance. Hope he added additional protection...

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Re: I officially will never buy or sell pcbs that need to be shipped again!
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2007, 08:49:00 am »

That's definitely an item where even if you get your $500-600 reimbursement it doesn't matter... that's a 25" vector monitor.  You can find a replacement tube but it sure ain't easy.