Author Topic: Tools for finishing a basement (Read 14134 times)

Hildy_42 · « **on:** July 30, 2007, 02:48:16 pm »

Well I finally got some money saved up to start finishing my basement. Was wondering if anyone could recommend a good nail gun for framing? Any suggestions on what other tools might come in handy? I have the following:

circular saw
jig saw
router
air compressor

The only other than I can think of is a compound miter saw would probably come in pretty handy. What is the easiest way to fasten the wall frames to the concrete floor, besides hammering in concrete nails?

Kaytrim · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:06:48 pm »

You can use a hammer drill and spacers for the nails or screws. Another option is a device that is loaded with a nail and percussion cap. The cap explodes sending the nail through the wood and into the concrete. Sometimes the concrete can break away using a percussion hammer like this, especially if you are near an expansion joint. A hammer drill is the only reliable way in these cases.

A miter saw is an excellent investment when it comes to cutting the dimensional lumber as well as trim pieces and molding. If you end up installing laminate wood floors you might want to make sure that the miter saw has the capacity to cut the laminate pieces you plan on using. My miter saw is not big enough so I have to cut my laminate flooring from both sides to get a full cut.

Good luck in your finishing project.
Kaytrim

ChadTower · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:41:27 pm »

Make a project thread out of it... I am going to start mine when I get the chance and could definitely use guidance.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:26:39 pm »

Oh I plan on documenting everything, plus I am hoping the things I am lacking knowledge in someone here can help me out with.

I was watching a program on the DIY network that showed them using one of those devices with the cap in it. I think I would be a little nervous of using that since I have zero experience with one. They also showed how to drill into the concrete first and then use screws. The house is only three years old so I would think a nail or screw should go in fairly easy and I shouldn't have too many problems with it cracking or breaking if I take my time with that part. Does anyone know off the top of their head how far about you need to anchor the frame into the concrete? I can't see it being that often.

Good call on the miter saw being big enough to do laminate flooring. I didn't even think about that. That is what I plan on using for most of the flooring. Looks like I need a little more research before purchasing one.

One last question. Does anyone know if it cost to have the county come out to check to see if things are within code? There is a wall already framed in my basement and my first design that I came up with has half of it removed. It doesn't look to be a support wall but it was put their for a reason I am assuming. So I wanted to get an expert to look and see if I would need to add a column or something if I removed half the wall. Does the county do that or is that something I would have to contract out?

Again sorry for all the dumb questions but I have never really done a home improvement project that would require it to meet code.

ChadTower · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2007, 05:03:04 pm »

Yes, it does cost to have anyone come out for pretty much any reason.

TOK · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2007, 05:10:21 pm »

I have a Senco framing nailer and it works great. One thing you will find is that there are clipped and round head framing nailers. In some areas that are prone to extreme weather, the clipped head are not up to code (the nail heads are somewhat "D" shaped.

There are now round head offset nails available for clipped head nailers, but if you're buying new, you might as well get the round head nailer.

My buddy has a Bostich framing nailer and he has had great luck with that, too.

BobA · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2007, 06:03:54 pm »

Unless you are going to do alot more framing then just your basement a framing nailer is probably not your best investment. You will have to use a ramset gun to put your fasteners into concrete and a cordless drill will allow you to drive screws which are very effective when framming a basement. Mike Holmes uses screws when building a basement wall a stick at a time and it supports alot better then prenailing the wall and lifting it in place.

ScottS · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2007, 07:12:46 pm »

Lots of options here...

As far as miter saws, I bought a 12" non-sliding compound miter saw. I've cut 2x4s, 2x6s, and 4x4s with it without problems. I think it will handle 2x8s, too. It had just enough capacity to cut through the laminate flooring I installed. If the floors you're considering have wide boards, you might need to step up to the additional cut capacity offered by a 10" sliding miter saw.

Framing nailers depend a lot on what your local building code will allow and how much framing you expect to need. Most of the house-framing crews in my area use Paslode nailers, which are great because you're not tied to a compressor. You pay for this convenience in initial cost and having to haul around a heavier tool. If you're only going to do a few walls, you might find it just as quick to use a traditional hammer or a palm nailer.

Lots of options for attaching walls to your slab. Again, you probably want to check with your local building code and see what is allowed. If you only need to do a moderate number of attachments, I'd suggest buying a good hammer drill and using a compatible anchor (Tapcon screw, wedge-type anchor, epoxy, etc). If you have to install lots of attachments, the gunpowder drivers are really the only practical way to go.

In my area, inspectors will come out to inspect work for free... if you've paid for a building permit. They're also happy to answer questions by phone.

LiquidFire · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2007, 05:59:12 am »

RE: Inspections

Your building permit pays for inspections, and that process will tell you how your project can be approved by the code your county has adopted.

However, if you have an engineering issue, and your removing a wall can certainly be that, your county may require a structural engineer to evaluate your particular situation.

Remember, a building permit is to promote safety for present and future occupants. And also informs your tax assessor that your project has increased your home's value.

A good way to start with your county is to draw out your situation on paper and make an office appointment with one of the inspectors. I have never found anything but a willingness to help from them especially if you have put a little thought into your preparation.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2007, 02:19:28 pm »

BobA, my friend had mentioned something about screwing each 2x4 directly to the wall instead of building the wall and lifting it into place. I had never heard or seen that done before. Might have to look into that. Really the only framing I have to do is the outside walls. The stairway and storage room (where the water heater and other utilities are located) is already framed.

The only reason I asked about the nailer was to save some time. But it sounds like it would be an investment that I would probably only use this one time. Might just have to pull out the old trusty hammer or do some more research on the screwing each 2x4 in individually.

ScottS, thanks for the info on miter saws. I know the last time I was in Lowes I started to price them but didn't have the time to dig in and see what all the different options they had to offer.

Thanks all for the info on permits and codes.

I have a friend I went to engineering school with that works for the county directly across from where I live. He should be able to point me in the right direction. I just want to do something and have it come back and bite me in the future if I look to sell.

shardian · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2007, 02:37:27 pm »

stick building the walls in place is actually pretty easy. Install your nailers, then mark off the top nailer at 16" O/C. Now hold a plumb bob on a string against the mark on the top nailer and mark the bottom nailer where the plumb bob rest. Instant squared up wall.

Definitely get a miter saw. You can get a cheapo from Lowes for less than $100 that will do the job quite well.

Here is a decent article on finishing basements:
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/basementremodels

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2007, 03:52:16 pm »

Thanks for the article. Some very helpful hints in there. I know for a fact that I am going to seal the walls and floor before I start anything. I have seen too many people that don't and then end up with a lot more work in the future. I just have to get everything moved out of my way first.

ChadTower · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2007, 03:53:09 pm »

That's my problem... so much crap down there, so little time to sort through it all and find something to do with it.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2007, 05:01:10 pm »

Sometimes it feels like the sorting through everything will actually take longer than finishing the actual basement. Some of the stuff is not going to get moved just because of its size. So I plan on doing part and then moving the stuff and then finishing that side. It will make the process longer but I really don't have any where else to store it and I don't want to even try and move some of it up the stairs.

ScottS · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2007, 07:27:52 pm »

Quote from: Hildy_42 on July 31, 2007, 02:19:28 pm

The only reason I asked about the nailer was to save some time. But it sounds like it would be an investment that I would probably only use this one time. Might just have to pull out the old trusty hammer or do some more research on the screwing each 2x4 in individually.

Look into a palm nailer. As I understand it, they're a cheap pneumatic hammer that you don't have to swing. You put the palm nailer on top of a nail and it pounds it into place. Takes longer than a standard framing nailer, but it's faster than hammering it yourself and less effort, too. Works well in tight spaces, unlike your hammer. Prices start at around $80.

GadgetGeek · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2007, 12:27:34 pm »

If you use a gunpowder driver, at least around here, you need a FOID card to purchase the charges.

FOID = Firearms Owners ID

shardian · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2007, 04:24:45 pm »

Quote from: GadgetGeek on August 01, 2007, 12:27:34 pm

If you use a gunpowder driver, at least around here, you need a FOID card to purchase the charges.

FOID = Firearms Owners ID

Where do you live? That is crazy. Those charges are the equivalent to a short .22 bullet. Anyone can buy .22 ammo off the shelf at Wal-mart, so these charges should be the same legally.

ScottS · « **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2007, 11:30:49 am »

Quote from: shardian on August 01, 2007, 04:24:45 pm

Where do you live? That is crazy. Those charges are the equivalent to a short .22 bullet. Anyone can buy .22 ammo off the shelf at Wal-mart, so these charges should be the same legally.

I would assume the thinking here is that while anyone can buy ammunition, not everyone can legally purchase a handgun. Since anyone can walk into Home Depot and purchase a gunpowder driver, I guess they're trying to control access to its "ammunition". Seems a bit silly to me, but not completely crazy...

GadgetGeek · « **Reply #18 on:** August 02, 2007, 12:42:54 pm »

Quote from: shardian on August 01, 2007, 04:24:45 pm

Where do you live? That is crazy. Those charges are the equivalent to a short .22 bullet. Anyone can buy .22 ammo off the shelf at Wal-mart, so these charges should be the same legally.

Illinois. I can't go buy .22 ammo without a FOID card either.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 02, 2007, 01:33:39 pm »

I am in Indiana and I haven't purchased ammunition in several years but I do remember being able to buy it at Wal-Mart as long as you were over 18. Maybe things have changed now.

shardian · « **Reply #20 on:** August 03, 2007, 02:31:09 pm »

Quote from: GadgetGeek on August 02, 2007, 12:42:54 pm

Quote from: shardian on August 01, 2007, 04:24:45 pm
Where do you live? That is crazy. Those charges are the equivalent to a short .22 bullet. Anyone can buy .22 ammo off the shelf at Wal-mart, so these charges should be the same legally.
Illinois. I can't go buy .22 ammo without a FOID card either.

Mental note: never move to Illinois.

If I want to own a small caliber rifle or a gunpowder driver, it is none of the governments beeswax.

padstack · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:33:35 pm »

Just did this. Here's what I used:

Framing nailer (Senco) - borrowed
Hammer drill (cheapo from HF) - $25
Regular drill - Dewalt - $109 combo kit w/ Sawzall (used for tearout)
Miter saw (given to me)

That's all I used as far as power tools used. Knocked out 2 walls and combined 4 rooms into 1 big one. brought in a steel beam to support wher the one wall was. It came out really nice! (keep in mind this list doesn't include any hand tools).

For my walls, I put down treated 2x4's (with tapcons) and nailed the studs to that and
the floor joists since they were already 16"oc.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2007, 08:21:13 am »

You don't happen to have any pictures of the process do you? About how long did it take you to frame everything out? I am hoping to be able to do it in a weekend.

ScottS · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:11:16 am »

Quote from: Hildy_42 on August 06, 2007, 08:21:13 am

I am hoping to be able to do it in a weekend.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2007, 01:08:41 pm »

I guess I should clarify that as doing the framing in a weekend.

To complete the basement in full, if it is like any other project I start, give me three or four years. Actually I think this winter will be the time, a few of my cousins are in the construction business and should have some free time to help.

ScottS · « **Reply #25 on:** August 07, 2007, 02:06:04 am »

Quote from: Hildy_42 on August 06, 2007, 01:08:41 pm

I guess I should clarify that as doing the framing in a weekend.

That's what I was assuming.

I would expect it to take a pair of experienced carpenters 3-4 days to setup on-site, build the framing to the correct size, and then secure it to the existing foundation/walls in a code-approved manner such that everything was plumb and level. OK, maybe they could save a day or two if they could use the gunpowder-based fasteners rather than a method which requires drilling holes in concrete (e.g. Tapcons, sleeved anchors, epoxy anchors, etc).

FWIW, it took me the better part of a weekend to attach the header boards for my deck to the sides of my house. Had to cut six pieces of wood to length, drill 20-25 holes through the wood, align the wood with the foundation, drill 25-30 holes in the foundation to match the holes in the wood, place 20-25 anchors, install the wood, then secure everything to the anchors. Laying out the rest of the frame for the deck, cutting all of the joists to length, installing joist hangers probably took me another 1-1.5 months of weekends. I was working by myself, but had access to some high-end tools that made the job much easier (Delta 12" TwinLaser compound miter saw, 360-degree rotating laser level, etc).

Remember the software engineer's rule for project scheduling: if you haven't done it before, double your time estimate and move it to the next larger unit of measure (e.g. 2 days => 4 weeks).

ChadTower · « **Reply #26 on:** August 07, 2007, 10:06:43 am »

And plan for at least one major requirements change as well as several minor changes.

ideft · « **Reply #27 on:** August 12, 2007, 09:22:29 pm »

Either use screws or just a plain hammer; an air framing nailer is a lot of money to dish out for what you are using it for. Just make sure when you are framing to leave the walls at least 1 1/2" away from the concrete(in case you need to move the wall to make it square and for an air space). A good idea is to use a chalk line to layout where your walls are going to go, then it is easier to visualize what you have to do. Also on your bottom plates make sure to use a water barrier material(ie poly) as concrete and wood don't mix that good. Another good tool: a 4 Ft level, 2 drills and a tool belt(Best tool ever!!) hope this helps.

padstack · « **Reply #28 on:** August 25, 2007, 02:53:45 pm »

Sorry for missing the post for so long.

If there is no tearout to do, framing basic perimeter walls in a weekend (long days though) isn't out of the question. I did have the benefit of being able to nail the top of the studs to existing joists on 2 sides though so that sped things up a bit.

I layed down a treated 2.4 on the floor where I had it marked off. Drilled holes in it and secured it w/ Tapcons (masonry screws). I then put the stud on that, made sure it was plumb, and secured the top & bottom. One side I wasn't able to use 2x4's (long story) so I secured furring strips to the wall and used those (put them on @ 16"OC. Luckily that wall was in nice shape for a 100 yr old house.

Of you have only 4 basic walls, you should be ok. What took me so long is that I had to knock out 2 support walls, build temp walls to hold up the house while that was done, jack the house up, bring in a steel beam and support it w/ posts (which had to have footers dug and poured for them), kinda-sorta level out the floor (turned 4 rooms into 1), and also had to frame in 5 door frames (due to a funky basement layout and having to still be able to get to electric box, water heater, furnace, etc.).

The framing portion took me about 3 weeks b/c I was working all of about 2 hours each night (including setup and cleanup b/c I still had to have semi-use of the space) and b/c I had a TON of crazy corners and wrapping suport beams, doing a good job of hiding duct work, etc. If it's just straightforward 4 walls, and you have basic carpentry skills, 1-2 weekends max.

t8erbug · « **Reply #29 on:** August 29, 2007, 09:54:48 pm »

What barrier are you using between the concrete wall and the frame wall to prevent wall condensation. Concrete walls stay dry due to air constantly moving across it. When you rock the walls and tape it you prevent this. Just something to think about.

t8erbug · « **Reply #30 on:** August 30, 2007, 04:53:55 am »

Purchased a Ramset gun and charges at Home Depot in Edwardsville, IL back in march. Has it changed since then?

Texasmame · « **Reply #31 on:** September 03, 2007, 11:09:02 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on July 30, 2007, 03:41:27 pm

Make a project thread out of it... I am going to start mine when I get the chance and could definitely use guidance.

Most important thing - make sure your walls are sealed against excess moisture. The have that stuff you can "paint" on them for that or whatnot if you like or have a pro come in and do it.

I used to do a bit of carpentry back in my HS/College summer vacations. I didn't lay the rug here, but did do the rest in my spare time. Took a few months of weekends.

Staple gun
Hammer
Nails
Level
Mitre Saw
Hiltie gun for some of the framing into concrete, too. (ears and eyes!!!)

Fairly basic stuff if you're at all handy. If you can build a cab, you can do this!

Attached is one "before" pic and a couple "after" pics. We uses to have a pool table and big screen TV down there - these were taken in the early stages of our move.

I miss that basement.

ChadTower · « **Reply #32 on:** September 04, 2007, 12:08:43 pm »

I like the pine paneling - 1/2" tongue and groove planks? I've considered that for mine too.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 04, 2007, 03:59:35 pm »

Someone else recommend the "paint" on sealant as well. Probably a dumb question but should I use that on the floor as well? I think I remember seeing something on HGTV where they used some sort of plastic on the floor but wasn't sure if I could just use the sealant instead.

Right now the biggest step is to get someone out to look at my drawings to see if structurally it will work since I am modifying part of a support wall that is already in place.

Again thanks for all the tips guys. I am hoping to start here soon, atleast with the framing part.

ScottS · « **Reply #34 on:** September 04, 2007, 05:27:07 pm »

Quote from: Hildy_42 on September 04, 2007, 03:59:35 pm

Someone else recommend the "paint" on sealant as well. Probably a dumb question but should I use that on the floor as well? I think I remember seeing something on HGTV where they used some sort of plastic on the floor but wasn't sure if I could just use the sealant instead.

Caveat: I don't live in an area where people have basements... or winter. I seem to recall reading that the paint-like sealers aren't always fool-proof if you're in an area that gets a lot of moisture. If you're planning to put down a wood or laminate floor, the manufacturer will almost certainly require laying down plastic over a concrete sub-floor in order for the warranty to be valid. I think that's a pretty good argument that DIY sealers aren't nearly as good as their manufacturer's would lead you to believe.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 05, 2007, 08:52:32 am »

Would you do the same for the walls as well? I had thought about stapling plastic to the back of the frame before setting it into place. Wasn't sure if plastic on the walls was over kill or not.

ChadTower · « **Reply #36 on:** September 05, 2007, 09:10:38 am »

DIY sealers are great if your walls are already in proper condition. They will seal against reasonable amounts of moisture from walls without major problems. They're not going to fill cracks or solve a water table problem, nor do the manufacturers claim they will.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 05, 2007, 10:39:28 am »

The house is only three years old so the walls are in great shape and I have yet to see any type of water in the basement. When I have the guy come out to look at my drawings I will see what he thinks and probably go with that.

One other complant that I have is I went to Lowes to price up 2x4s and I bet it took me every bit of an hour just to find ten or so good 2x4s. I guess I will have to go to a lumber company and buy direct. Little more expensive but at least I know the quality is there. Anyone else have this problem when buying lumber from a hardware chain?

ChadTower · « **Reply #38 on:** September 05, 2007, 10:57:21 am »

Don't buy lumber from a hardware chain unless you want to have to do what you did.

Hildy_42 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:10:39 am »

Well I was trying to save a few dollars since it was cheaper there. But I quickly figured out why it was cheaper.


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