Record player repair?

[cowguy]

I picked up a record player at a garage sale, and it wont spin.  Everything works except the spinning part which means I can't use it.  It makes a loud noise any help would be appreciated.

[ChadTower]

Does "the spinning part" mean the motor or the turntable?  You need to see if the motor is good.

[cowguy]

Does "the spinning part" mean the motor or the turntable?  You need to see if the motor is good.

The turntable

[ChadTower]

Take it off and check the motor.  Belt or direct drive?

[cowguy]

Just figured the belt was all tangled up.  I'm not sure how to put it back on.

[DaveMMR]

We really need pictures or a better description, but generally speaking, you can pull the table part of the turntable up off the inner spindle (I'm pulling part names out of my...) and back down into it with a little extra force.   

Now, putting the belt on differs on the record players (which is why pics might be needed).  With my old player, there was a "hook" on the turntable platter that aided in getting the belt back onto the motor spindle (again, making up terms here).   You loop the belt straight around the inner ring and then pull it out to the "hook".  Place the platter into the spindle with the "stretched part" of the rubber aimed over where the motor spindle is and turn it  manually until you feel it "catch".  Turn it on and see if it works.

Now if you don't have a hook or that didn't work, you have to be good with your fingers.  Loop the belt onto the inner ring and lower it, but not all the way, where it's almost in the hole but you can still reach under.  Manually pull the belt and loop it around the motor spindle and push it down gently.  It should do the trick.

Remember, there should be NO kinks in the belt.   

Now if you have a Direct Drive turntable (no belts), then forget everything I just said.  You might need a professional for that (though if you got it a garage sale, it's more than likely a belt driven turntable).

Post some pics if this didn't help for more specific answers.

By the way, does it have a "strobe" on the side to determine if the speeds are correct?  That's actually the hard part: making sure 33-1/3 is actually moving at that speed.  But we will cross that bridge when we come to it. 

[cowguy]

Here are some pics

[DaveMMR]

I think that's a belt driven turntable.   Turn the platter upside down, place the belt and follow the directions I posted above.

[cowguy]

I never worked with record players before I'm some what confused about your directions.  My belt seems to be to long.

[Ken Layton]

Get the make & model then post the problems being experienced on the newsgroup sci.electronics.repair

[cowguy]

It's a Pioneer model pl-990

[lanman31337]

always test stuff before you buy it, but that's definitely going to be a belt drive turn table.  the platter should just pull up, but pull slowly because the belt is attached to it.  check and see if the motor spins, and if it does, it may be a stretched belt.  belts are maybe 10 or 15 bucks.  if the motor's not spinning, you may have bought yourself a paperweight

[DaveMMR]

I did a search for you for parts: 
http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PL990

and here (cheaper!):
http://www.elexatelier.com/pioneer.htm

Before we go into any more details on installing the belt, remove the turntable platter, turn it on and make sure the motor spins when you turn it on (either by moving the tonearm or hitting a button, etc.).

By the way, the turntable you have is still sold in stores for ~$100, so if it works you've done pretty good.

[cowguy]

I did a search for you for parts: 
http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PL990

and here (cheaper!):
http://www.elexatelier.com/pioneer.htm

Before we go into any more details on installing the belt, remove the turntable platter, turn it on and make sure the motor spins when you turn it on (either by moving the tonearm or hitting a button, etc.).

By the way, the turntable you have is still sold in stores for ~$100, so if it works you've done pretty good.

Thanks for the help, the motor still spins  I picked it up for $3

[DaveMMR]

Here's a link with simplified belt installation instructions:
http://www.elexatelier.com/beltinstall.htm

And this one has a video:
http://www.turntableneedles.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=3

And a forum thread:
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/136954.html

Basically, the belt has to go around an inside ring on the platter and the motor drive.  Specifics are hard for me as I don't have it right in front of me to do it myself and explain in better detail.  Here's something else: If the platter has a hole (after removing the slip mat), that's used to help aid in feeding it around the drive.

Ken Layton is right, you may have better luck posting your make and model at a forum specifically for audio equipment as someone more than likely has the same or similar model sitting in front of them. 

Come to think of it, my friend has been using a Pioneer turntable for quite some time now.  I can ask him about it if you don't get the help you need.

But a little off the topic of your problem for a second: You got an excellent deal.  The motor works so it's a good start.  Hopefully your turntable doesn't suffer from the same problem my old one did - that is, the motor would intermittently speed up or slow down.  My turntable was pretty old though (over 20 years) when I ended up replacing it, so I think it's a strong possibility you won't have that issue. 

[cowguy]

get an I-Pod

I own three 

[DaveMMR]

Call me crazy but there's quite a few albums where listening to them on CD or especially an iPod just isn't the same.  I'll take my decades-old copy of "Dark Side of the Moon" on vinyl over any of it's CD releases any day.  Plus, you can get a very good vinyl copy of most old stuff for cheaper than picking it up on CD (as low as 50 cents, sometimes even free).     Even a surprisingly large amount of relatively recent releases can be had on vinyl for less than their CD counterpart (assuming you know where to look).  Hook it up to your computer and you can make a better quality digital copy than if you were to get it from questionable download sites. 

get an I-Pod

There's a certain bit of irony in that statement considering it was written on a message board dedicated to preserving old video game technology. Haha. 

[DaveMMR]

I'm not an audiophile but even on tracks with 192KBps, I can hear imperfections.  It's not as pristine as everyone likes to think.  And you know what, neither is vinyl.  And when it comes down to convenience and availability, digital music wins hands down.  I admit that.

But when it comes to home listening, an above-average sound system with a clean vinyl copy of your favorite album will always sound better than streaming it from iTunes or whatever program.  Vinyl is uncompressed, natural sound (not a digital representation of it) and you can't 100% duplicate that with ones and zeros.  At best, I'd say it's 98% perfect.  For the average listener (myself included, by the way) that's still great.  But it's not enough to say vinyl is completely worthless.

Also, CDs, et al can't duplicate some classic vinyl tricks.  On certain import copies of Sgt. Pepper's (I'm writing this in the USA, btw), the nonsense at the end of the album continues until you lift the tonearm off the looping exit groove.  Rush fans might like to keep their eyes open for a promo 12" called "RUSHan Roulette" that had (i think) 8 parallel groves running in tandem.  That means, a random song plays depending on where you drop the tonearm.  And c'mon - you mean to tell me those 8X10s of the Beatles packaged with every copy of the white album is as impressive or fun shrunken down to fit inside a standard CD jewel case?

Furthermore, vinyl is highly collectible.  Yes, I mentioned you can get a lot of albums really cheap.  But on the other end of the spectrum, there are records that could fetch hundreds of dollars (if not a lot more as is the case with Bob Dylan's "Freewheelin'" with an estimated fetching price of $25,000).   

Next, downloading MP3s takes away a big part of albums - the artwork.  The Rolling Stone's "Sticky Fingers" has not translated well into the digital age because there is no physical zipper on the CD case unlike the vinyl counterpart. 

One more example: I like the band XTC.  They original pressing of "Skylarking" had a track that was subsequently omitted in future pressings to include a surprise hit single that was originally a B-side ("Dear God").  In my opinion, the original pressing was far superior.  But you really couldn't find that track order on CD until recently (and then you're spending like $20 on it when you can find the original album, on vinyl, for under $8).

Every now and then a new technology comes out that's so far more advanced and convenient there's no point in messing with the old stuff. 

Once again, I'll point out that you're making that statement on a forum dedicated to embracing "old stuff".  Tossing emulation for a minute, many of the best old arcade games can be played on modern systems (the Midway Arcade Collection as an example).  Why mess with the "old stuff" then (i.e. arcade cabinets) when you can just get a collection of those games and pop it into your Xbox or download it on Gametap.  Because it's more fun to have that retro experience.  It's apples and oranges, I know - but worth pointing out nontheless.

FWIW, Dark Side of the Moon has been remastered more than once on CD and sounds -much- better than it ever did on vinyl.

You never heard the vinyl re-releases methinks. 

[DaveMMR]

Your analogy about this forum 'embracing old style' is off the mark, too.  We slap PCs into cabinets and play them with arcade controls.

You're not getting it.  Why are we slapping computers into big wooden decorative boxes to begin with?  I mean, you can just get a game pad or a decent joystick and hook it up to your computer on your desk.  It's because the big box is more fun.  The charm of an arcade cabinet, much like old vinyl records, is something that adds more to the entertainment value.

Nothing preventing your I-pod from being hooked up to your old speakers.

I wasn't referring to old speakers.  I'm a strong proponent of hooking up turntables, iPods, DVD players, etc. to new speakers as well.   

At 192 kbps you can hear imperfections only because you're listening for them.

No, I hear them because they're there.  Granted, it's still excellent quality, but you're telling me it's practically perfect.  Let's let Bob Dylan take over this argument:

"We all like records that are played on record players, but let's face it, those days are gon-n-n-e. You do the best you can, you fight that technology in all kinds of ways, but I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent in the past twenty years, really. You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have sound all over them. There's no definition of nothing, no vocal, no nothing, just like -- static. Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the studio when we recorded 'em."

I got that from the Wikipedia entry for his latest album, "Modern Times".   Yes I know Wikipedia's not to be trusted, but I remember that or a similar quote from another source as well.

And let me just reassure you, I love my iPod.  I have a few thousands songs crammed onto it.  I do hate that I had to combine all the tracks on Dark Side of the Moon into two tracks (Side 1 and Side 2, of course) to avoid those unfortunate audible gaps though.  Nevertheless, it's the best portable music player in my opinion.  But I still think there's room for a turntable.  Which is why I was helping cowguy, instead of saying "eh, get an iPod". 

[cowguy]

I'm going to buy a new belt from the link you posted because mine is stretched.  Didn't mean to start a flame war on the past and the future =\

[rovingmind]

once you get it going, theres a chap in england with an excellent program for cleaning up audio files recorded off of records.

 I don't have the info on me at the moment (i'm at work) but i have it on my computer at home.  I have the line-outs on my stereo going into my computer to use it. 
Does an awesome job of removing excessive clicks and hiss. 

I haven't tried audacity yet because i purchased a license for the english guys program.

[boykster]

Has anyone tried the funky new USB Turntables that have been hitting the street lately?

http://www.anthems.com/Convert-Vinyl-Records-To-MP3-With-USB-Player_s1036.html

I saw one at costco and thought WTF?

[DaveMMR]

I'm going to buy a new belt from the link you posted because mine is stretched.  Didn't mean to start a flame war on the past and the future =\

Not a flame war at all.  Just a little "Count/Pointer-Count" 

[_) (V) (-)]

I know someone who bought something like that.
She had some problems setting it up, said the device was installed but se got no sound through it. I told her how to get to the mixer settings and change them for the input signals but I think it blew her mind. She wanted 'simple' and if this wasn't enough I don't know what is.

[jbox]

The vast majority of (especially younger) people who think that Vinyl is rubbish in my experience have that opinion because most of the sound systems they have heard are the standard mass-produced players that are "good enough". The data stored on an LP is of a higher precision then the CD standard, but the big problem with it is getting all that data off without the noise (physical contact is a ---smurfette---). Digital systems did make that process easier for consumer-grade technology, so for most people who wont fork over the $$$ then digital *IS* better. Personally I'm pretty disappointed that there was never a 2nd "uber" standard of audio disc (eg. 64b/50kHz/5.1ch) released by Philips, because at that precision you really would end up with only 0.0000001% of people able to hear the difference. As it is, *some* people with good hearing can spot the sound lost in a 16/44  conversion, but *most* people don't spend anywhere near enough for it to matter. 

And trying to use the mp3 'close enough is good enough' standard in an argument about audio quality? Don't get me wrong, I love having all my songs in my pocket, but WTF?!? 

[DaveMMR]

It isn't so much the player as it is the needle (although cheaper turntables do tend to have little problems like incorrect pitch).  And I suspect that a lot of the noise people hear when they spin a record can be eliminated by simply giving the record a wipe with a lint-free cloth and cleaning the needle.  But yes, the "wear and tear" is one of vinyl's downfall. 

[ChadTower]

I suspect that few people would say "vinyl is rubbish".  I bet it's more that most people nowadays have never had a vinyl setup and just don't see it as being worth the effort, especially sourcing albums, to keep vinyl around.  Not when the instant gratification download-drag-listen to every album ever made on a device the size of your thumb is so easy.

[cowguy]

I guess I'm one of the few younger people who think vinyl is better sounding than mp3.