Lacquer

[Molinero]

Not really arcade related but it the only place where I know I'll get an answer. I'm building this a small wagon for my niece and I want to apply some lacquer to it so it wont get scratched so much. I'll would be applied over painted MDF. What lacquer do I go for?

Thanks

[javeryh]

I just used Rustoleum spray-on lacquer (clear).  You can get it at Home Depot for $2.97 a can.

[ChadTower]

an MDF wagon?  Interesting.

[Molinero]

Okay I'll look for Rustoleum or something similar. And yeah wagon probably isn't the correct word  I'm trying to make something like this

[ScottS]

As top coats go, lacquer actually scratches pretty easily... until it cures. The last time I played around with it, using Deft brushing lacquer, it took several weeks before I couldn't scratch the finish with my fingernail. Polyurethane is much more durable, though more difficult to repair if it should ever become damaged.

As far as brands, I'd look at Deft. They're pretty much the biggest name in the industry as far as lacquer for woodworking goes...

[javeryh]

yeah, definitely give it at least 2 weeks to fully cure.  That's what I did for the finish on my cab and it came out great.

That wagon is pretty cool - looks like a lawnmower without the engine...

[prOk]

Lacquer is the totally wrong finish to use for this, especially around young children that like to chew on things.  Go with a water based poly or salad bowl finish that's non toxic.

Deft lacquer is crap, consumer grade stuff anyway.  Good lacquers can be found at cabinet supply shops with brands like ML Campbell.  Much better stuff.

[ScottS]

Lacquer is the totally wrong finish to use for this, especially around young children that like to chew on things.  Go with a water based poly or salad bowl finish that's non toxic.

Deft lacquer is crap, consumer grade stuff anyway.  Good lacquers can be found at cabinet supply shops with brands like ML Campbell.  Much better stuff.

Let's see.... I think I'd probably have to disagree with everything you said!

Just about every finish I can think of is food-safe and non-toxic once completely cured. Salad bowl finish provides almost no protection and needs to be regularly re-applied. Absolutely, positively the wrong finish to use for a child's toy... unless you want it to look like crap after a day or two.

Polyurethane is a better finish for a child's toy, but... don't think that a finish is safe just because it is water-based! The advantage of a water-based finish is that the solvent, water, is less toxic. The finish itself, however, contains far more chemicals and additives than an oil-based finish! And let's not forget that water-based finishes tend to have a bluish tint that looks like crap. And I've yet to find one that flowed out and self-leveled as well as an oil-based poly.  Because of this, I tend to use oil-based poly rather than water-based. The only downside to oil-based, in my mind, is the long drying time.

Cabinet shops that use lacquer all use HVLP or other spray equipment. They also have explosion-proof spray booths, which are necessary when spraying solvent-based lacquers. Since most people don't have access to a $1000 HVLP spray setup, brushing lacquer is pretty much the only option. There are only a couple left on the market and Deft is the most easily accessible. Is it as durable as the pre-catalyzed spray lacquer used by cabinet shops? Absolutely not. Does that mean it's bad? Absolutely not! I've had remarkably good results with it. In fact, the more I use it, the more I like it...

[prOk]

All a matter of experience I guess     Deft is not good stuff from a professional perspective (my point was simply to discourage the use of lacquer in the first place, it's my opinion based on using lots and lots of lacquer that it's a lousy product.  Any manufacturer makes a brushable version of their stuff)...  And I didn't say waterbased because of any kind of chemical reason, more because of simplicity so don't add words in that I didn't say.  Either way, I wouldn't use lacquer around a childs toy.   

Please also note there is a HUGE difference between Food Safe, and non toxic finishes.  I did not say Food Safe, although I did mention one that is.  The point is, you are right that once cured the surface of almost all finishes becomes food safe to the point where chemicals no longer pass through the finish into your food.  HOWEVER, if you were to eat that cured finish (which was my point of children chewing on things) it very well can be toxic or in some way harmful.  That being said, the most durable AND kid safe finish is probably a Shellac or wax with a simple poly running behind.

[ScottS]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I started playing around with lacquer after attending a finishing seminar conducted by Jim Heavey, who's a frequent contributor to Wood magazine. Aside from the nasty solvents, I think it's a pretty sweet finish. Apparently so does everyone else in the world, since it's the primary finish used on cabinets and commercial furniture and has been for the last century.

To be honest, your thinking doesn't make much sense to me. You say you want a finish that's safe for a child to eat, then go on to recommend water-based polyurethane which is full of chemicals, more so than it's oil-based cousin! I'm also not entirely sure why you'd want to take a durable polyurethane finish and cover it with easily-damaged shellac.

[Molinero]

Well I don't think she'll eat off the wagon .. it's a little too big to chew on. I used a clear spray-on lacquer and it'll get time to cure properly. Here she is testing it before it goes for a fully curing time in the closet.