Wanna be physically strong?

[shorthair]

There are some of you on this forum who've expressed they lift, powerlift, whatever. This you think will make you strong. If you really want to be strong, though, you might take a moment to look into those such as the Mighty Atom, who though he used weights never used more than 25 pounds at a time and many of whose strength achievements haven't to this day been matched.

http://www.beezone.com/MightyAtom/the_mighty_atom.html

http://www.naturalstrength.com/history/detail.asp?ArticleID=311

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mighty_Atom_%28strongman%29


Another is the Great Gama. The bulk of his training was with Hindu push-ups, Hindu squats, bridging, and wrestling a tree. He was unbeaten in 8000 consecutive matches, often enough against much larger opponents. (Gama was only 5' 7".)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7SUNA&q=the+great+gama

[horseboy]

I looked into it... thanks for the info. I am still pretty certain that lifting weights makes you stronger, and I don't really have the desire to bite quarters in half or lay on a bed of nails with 14 dudes on top of me.

[Joystick Jerk]

They do, but a lot of times strength is determined by genetics. While everyone can get stronger by lifting weights and what not, some people will get more benefit out of it than others. Look at those insanely muscled dudes that compete in muscle-man competitions. They have far more muscle mass than the average person, but they're strength isn't in line with how much muscle. Say they have 1000% more muscle mass than the average guy. Even with that, they're maybe only 200% stronger than the average guy. Look at women; the average woman is weaker than the average man, but when considered pound for pound of muscle mass on each sexes frame, the average woman is stronger than the average man.

Many a times you'll also see a skinny guy with small, ropy muscles outpower a big guy with big bulging muscles. It's all about how those muscles work and not necessarily how much muscle there is.

[polaris]

i think i can confirm what you are saying.
low reps high weight = big but not necessarily strong muscles.
high reps lower weight = more strength but not more bulk.
the first is what a competition bodybuilder will use.
you probably disagree with the next bit, but hey ho ill say it anyway
good carbohydrate management will give your muscles greater strength and stamina which i think is what you're after. look up carbo loading, its what athletes do, you probably know this.(yes you need protein too  ) but look at it more as feeding your muscles the energy they need to perform.
weve talked about the protein thing before and im getting the idea youve got a few things askew,sorry if i sound rude there, im just getting an idea of the theory you follow.
you're convinced about the need for protein but im anxious its a bobybuilder attitude you are following. to build big muscles you will need lots of protein, the big weights are gonna damage your muscles and the protein is needed to regenerate and build .
but shorty honestly, go with these theories you're looking at here they will make you stronger and healthier than a bobybuilding approach. i wont make the claim that you eat too much protein cos any excess youll just piss out anyway, but for muscle strength really look at carb management.
i'll stake my reputation on it which as you are aware shorty carries considerable respect around here.

not sure its true, but bruce lee was associated with dynamic tension which is a very low weight high rep exercise

[shardian]

I remember back in the wcw days there was this skinny, dorky black guy who wore gold tights. I can't remember his name, but I'm sure at least a few of you know who I am talking about. Anyways, apparently he was really frikkin strong because they detailed his workout regiment one day on Nitro. He was a proponent of low weight/high reps work. The biggest weight he lifted was like 50 lbs, but he would do around 200-300 reps. Can you imagine doing 200 curls in a row with 50 lbs??? Sure you may think it sounds easy if you lift, but try it.

One of my friends had a lifting workout he called "Peel the Puppy". You rounded up all of the 5 lb weights you can find, load them all up on a lift bar and start doing curls. You do all that you can, then strip off 5 lbs on each side. You would keep repeating max reps and stripping weights until all the weights were gone. He developed very strong, wiry muscles doing this.

[polaris]

I remember back in the wcw days there was this skinny, dorky black guy who wore gold tights. I can't remember his name, but I'm sure at least a few of you know who I am talking about. Anyways, apparently he was really frikkin strong because they detailed his workout regiment one day on Nitro. He was a proponent of low weight/high reps work. The biggest weight he lifted was like 50 lbs, but he would do around 200-300 reps. Can you imagine doing 200 curls in a row with 50 lbs??? Sure you may think it sounds easy if you lift, but try it.

One of my friends had a lifting workout he called "Peel the Puppy". You rounded up all of the 5 lb weights you can find, load them all up on a lift bar and start doing curls. You do all that you can, then strip off 5 lbs on each side. You would keep repeating max reps and stripping weights until all the weights were gone. He developed very strong, wiry muscles doing this.

mc hammer?

shardian,  the peel the puppy thing, ive heard that too , you start at a comfortable weight for yourself but which takes effort to rep ,then reduce the weight and do more reps etc etc

[shardian]

I looked thru a list of wcw wrestlers until I saw something familiar. His name is Norman Smiley. After I read thru his bio, the whole embarrasing memory of his character came back to me. And people wonder why WCW tanked big time.

[ChadTower]

I liked Norman Smiley, though he was definitely too gay.  That guy was NOT skinny, he had a thin build, but his chest, shoulders, arms were pretty big for his build.  Big legs, too.

[polaris]

No offense, polaris, but I've seen a picture and you're the epitome of the stick boy.

(I look like a pumpkin with legs)

dude, i'm not offended, i told you i was described by my best friend as having the body of a fighting kitten but then we called him the skinny fat man( you wouldnt think it was possible to be both fat and skinny but he managed it) i dont mind anyone taking the piss out of me , regardless of wether we've disagreed in the past over matters. 
im not claiming to be a bodybuilder but remember what i studied( lets not go into it), you meet lots of sports nutritionists that way, and i know a shitload of guys who bodybuild very seriously.

BTW that's not my natural skin colour 
 

[shorthair]

Many a times you'll also see a skinny guy with small, ropy muscles outpower a big guy with big bulging muscles. It's all about how those muscles work and not necessarily how much muscle there is.

This last is so. But, as Matt Furey attests, regarding strength (and even physical form, depending on how exotic your view is) genetics is not much of a factor. It's about mind. (following on polaris' comment, here) Bruce Lee's regimen was about endurance and flexibility. His strength came from his mind. However, I think some of the things he was into, machines in particular, were far less functional.


polaris: if you recall Buddabing's thread, I don't lift weights. (I also breathe differently than the average body builder, which prevents tensed, bulk muscle.) My concern with protein is that I oxidise fast and am hungry, particularly when training, otherwise. Though a surplus isn't good as it eventually wears on the kidneys and other internal organs. Another difference is that instead of carbs for energy, of which only a relatively small amount per day can be utilised, I consume a fair bit of fat (generally uncooked) which, conversely, your body can (note) cleanly burn in tremendous quantities. Due to the types of fat I eat, the lack of carbs to turn it into white fat, I have this constantly replenishing supply of brown fat that is readily used, and that also has a far longer sustenance, than carbs.

shardian: yeah, though the regular weight exercises are very limited, and don't address flexibility. Now, girevoy (kettlebells) on the other hand, you should see what the qualification for instructor is on that. The exercises are dynamic...and kets go up to at least 88lbs, which only the senior mother ---smurfs--- can do.

Another thing, though, you have to remember that wrestling hasn't been real in America for decades and decades. Gama, he was a real wrestler. I mean, unless it was merely external from scuffing an stuff, how the ---fudgesicle--- do you bleed from your ears in wrestling?

And on Gama: he wrestled with a tree. This is a TRUE type of isometric. On the physical end, the key to power.

[Naru]

So how do you win a wrestling match with a tree?
I've seen the mui tai tree kicking thing, but wrestling a tree?
How do you improve grappling with a tree?

[shorthair]

You grab hold of it and try to bring it to the ground.

Regarding muay thai, this seems to be one of the many grunt-effort ways of learning to harden your body. Not elegant. Tai Chi, and related practice*, are far more effective, as well as applicable to life, vs fighting.

*I happened upon this progrom a little while ago where all the dude had to do was touch you to paralyse a limb, stun you so that you would immediately fall and need to be caught, or even kill. He could also heal. You know, like in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

[RayB]

8000 and 0 fighting a tree.   I'm 8000 and 0 versus my office chair.

[ChadTower]

It's all relative.  When we moved into this house, I had a mid level bodybuilder friend help.  I was powerlifting at the time.  When we tried to move the piano, he had trouble keeping an end lifted (the thing is probably 800lb, 100 year old upright).  I walked over and did it easily.  He looked a hell of a lot better than I did physically but wasn't nearly as strong.

To me, physical strength was always most key in how you could use it for practical purposes.  It's all well and good to be able to wrestle a tree, and when that fateful day comes when the trees are after my kids, I'll really wish I had spent hours hugging the maple in my backyard. 

[shorthair]

8000 and 0 fighting a tree.   I'm 8000 and 0 versus my office chair.

Are ya sure on that?


Chad: you start off right - body-builder friend is all about looks - then run countre in the second part....because you have faith in the use of weight equipment. Not that you couldn't use that stuff to get REALLY strong. But you'd use it differently.

Of course, the most often over-looked element is flexibility. Even with a tremendous amount of stretching, most weight-trainers don't have even a tenth the flexibility of those utilising functional exercises, and may only be as strong in a limited number of ways. So it's actually contextual. How broad a context do you want to be able to function within?

[ChadTower]

Chad: you start off right - body-builder friend is all about looks - then run countre in the second part....because you have faith in the use of weight equipment. Not that you couldn't use that stuff to get REALLY strong. But you'd use it differently.

Of course, the most often over-looked element is flexibility. Even with a tremendous amount of stretching, most weight-trainers don't have even a tenth the flexibility of those utilising functional exercises, and may only be as strong in a limited number of ways. So it's actually contextual. How broad a context do you want to be able to function within?

Many of the powerlifting assistance exercises are actually specifically about flexibility.  You can't squat below parallel without highly flexible hips.  You can't safely deadlift if you don't have a flexible lower back and hamstrings.  You can't bench in the upper weights without flexible shoulders.

But anyway, yes I have faith in weights, because all a weight is is a mass against gravity.  Fighting gravity is the core of strength training and it matters little how you do it so long as you do it efficiently and safely.

[shorthair]

I used to do squats and deadlifts just fine. Some time later I started bridging and hindu push-ups and found I wasn't that flexible. And, one crucial difference in moving a weight and moving your body (or your body weighted down, like with a weight vest, or with resistance cables) is point of leverage. The other is that coventional lifting exercises are linear. Functional exercises are what I call radial. They involve perpendicular planes of range of motion.

But none of that is what I was last referring to.

[clanggedin]

Bruce Lee used dynamic tension/isometrics to stay in shape. I did dynamic tension for about while I lived in Argentina, it worked out really well. I came back to the the US in awesome shape. Had a six pack and everything all from dynamic tension.

I don't understand how Tai Chi hardens your body. I know that Tai Chi will strengthen you using what they call "relaxed strength", it's not dynamic tension though, but to harden your shins/ forearms like a Muay Thai fighter it can't.

[shorthair]

From what I understand, Lee used machines a lot for isometrics, vs static objects. Both are good, but again I think point of leverage is important in separating which is better.

Tai Chi is about energy. Instead of merely hardening/acclimating the physical (and perhaps stumbling onto the psychical), you regulate energy flow to whatever configuration you imagine.

(As I alluded to in a post above: I happened upon this program a little while ago where all the dude had to do was touch you to paralyse a limb, stun you so that you would immediately fall and need to be caught, or even kill. He could also heal. You know, like in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.)

[JackTucky]

When we tried to move the piano, he had trouble keeping an end lifted (the thing is probably 800lb, 100 year old upright).  I walked over and did it easily. 

Chad is superman, really.

=J

[jbox]

How Superman should have ended.

[ChadTower]

Chad is superman, really.

(I post) faster than a speeding bullet.

[Dartful Dodger]

Lifting a piano is like opening a jar of pickles.  Your friend did all the hard work loosening the piano and now you’re taking all the credit.

[(+_+)]

(As I alluded to in a post above: I happened upon this program a little while ago where all the dude had to do was touch you to paralyse a limb, stun you so that you would immediately fall and need to be caught, or even kill. He could also heal. You know, like in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.)

I've heard that this is a proximity based technique. It has nothing to do which anything else but the fact that the person making, the supposedly, lethal contact had nothing but a severe case of bad breath.

[(+_+)]

I just stumbled across this product that is supposed to improve your strength. Sounds like a match made in paradise. 

http://site.vitamindeal.com/productImages/fast-twitch-lemon2

[Goz]

Well there's always "Badger Milk"

[polaris]

I just stumbled across this product that is supposed to improve your strength. Sounds like a match made in paradise. 

http://site.vitamindeal.com/productImages/fast-twitch-lemon2

id like to offer sincere contrafibularities over finding that link, i think it would improve me interfrastically.
genius.

[shorthair]

I've heard that this is a proximity based technique. It has nothing to do which anything else but the fact that the person making, the supposedly, lethal contact had nothing but a severe case of bad breath.

You probably shouldn't reveal your personal life.