Does my tube need to be rejuvenated?

[MaximRecoil]

I have a WG K4900 with an RCA 19VLTP22 tube. The colors, contrast, and sharpness are perfect in a dark room, nothing wrong with the picture at all. In daylight you can hardly see what's going on on the screen, it gets almost completely drowned out. For example, instead of blacks you see the color of the tube as if it were turned off. Blue is pretty much the only color that shows up well in daylight. It is even okay in artificial light, like having the overhead light in the room turned on at night (looks best in the dark though), it is just daylight that drowns it out.

So if this needs rejuvenation, a local TV repair place said they could do it for $25. Is that a good price?

[grantspain]

$25 sounds good to me,another thing that can cause problems with picture quality are capacitors-get him to change all the electrolitics for another $25 and you'll be laughing

[MaximRecoil]

$25 sounds good to me,another thing that can cause problems with picture quality are capacitors-get him to change all the electrolitics for another $25 and you'll be laughing

I've already done a capacitor kit on it just as a routine measure when I got the machine. It didn't really need one, the picture was the same before and after the cap kit, that is, excellent except easily drowned out by daylight. I'm not kidding when I say "excellent" either, it has one of the best pictures I've ever seen on an arcade monitor, but only in a dark room.

So do you think rejuvenation will solve this issue?

[Rickn]

From what you are describing, this is known as "Cathode Slump". Assuming the diagnosis is right and they know what they are doing, first they will do an emission test a clean and a Rejuve of the tube.
Sounds straight forward, but here is the rest.

In as many as 50% of attempts, the tube can be damaged beyond repair or use... sometimes open heaters or others.

A rejuve will buy you any where from a few days to a few years....

Bottom line no guarantee.

Good luck

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com
www.niemandisplays.com

[MaximRecoil]

From what you are describing, this is known as "Cathode Slump". Assuming the diagnosis is right and they know what they are doing, first they will do an emission test a clean and a Rejuve of the tube.
Sounds straight forward, but here is the rest.

In as many as 50% of attempts, the tube can be damaged beyond repair or use... sometimes open heaters or others.

A rejuve will buy you any where from a few days to a few years....

Bottom line no guarantee.

Good luck

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com
www.niemandisplays.com

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I've heard about the unpredictability of rejevenation, and the unpredictability regarding how long the results will last, and the variable regarding whether the person knows what they are doing or not.

That sucks.

The good thing is, that if it does solve my low emission problem, it will probably last a while because I don't run the machine all that often. I play a few games for maybe a half hour at a time, maybe a few times a week...or sometimes go weeks without turning it on at all.

The bad thing is of course, the prospect of paying money just to fry a tube beyond repair. Maybe I should just get some black drapes.

[modessitt]

Dunno about the 50%.  I've rejuv'd a couple hundred and only lost 1.  Majing sure that your settings are proper for your tube type helps.

A thought occurred when reading this post.  When you say "in daylight", do you mean the sunlight is shining right on the screen?  If so, then it would be expected that your screen would look dim as the light emitting from your screen would be engulfed by the sunlight and hard to distinguish.  How does it look at night with a lamp on in the room (not an overhead, room-filling light)?

I've seen tubes that look "light grey" when the game is off and rejuving didn't help at all.  Monitors that look "dark grey" or have burn in darker than the rest of the screen will usually brighten up.  Sometimes you need to rejuv it more than once, as sometimes after a rejuv you'll find a color missing, but it comes back after the second rejuv.

It would be interesting to know what game it is also.  I remember someone thinking my Gyruss was losing it's monitor because everything looked dark on the edges.  They didn't realize it was a special effect designed to give the illusion of 3-D....

[Kevin Mullins]

Not to sound stupid or anything, but I've seen "dust" on the face of the tube cause a similar effect in daylight.

Also, one local "TV repair" shop that I know that actually still has a rejuvinator that I've dealt with locally will only charge me if it actually helps fix the problem.
So ya might even ask about that option.

[MaximRecoil]

Dunno about the 50%.  I've rejuv'd a couple hundred and only lost 1.  Majing sure that your settings are proper for your tube type helps.

A thought occurred when reading this post.  When you say "in daylight", do you mean the sunlight is shining right on the screen?  If so, then it would be expected that your screen would look dim as the light emitting from your screen would be engulfed by the sunlight and hard to distinguish.  How does it look at night with a lamp on in the room (not an overhead, room-filling light)?

Any daylight, including cloudy days. Dusk or dawn is okay, or maybe a very dark stormy day. I have another machine in the same room and you can see it fine during the day. It has a brand new monitor, but even the old K7000 that was in it before showed up fine during the day.

I don't have a lamp in the room, just an overhead room-filling light that's actually quite bright, and even that doesn't drown the picture out to the point that daylight does. It is still quite playable with the overhead light on at night, though it looks much better in the dark.

I've seen tubes that look "light grey" when the game is off and rejuving didn't help at all.  Monitors that look "dark grey" or have burn in darker than the rest of the screen will usually brighten up.  Sometimes you need to rejuv it more than once, as sometimes after a rejuv you'll find a color missing, but it comes back after the second rejuv.

Well this tube is light grey when off, but it is an older tube from the time when they were all light grey.

It would be interesting to know what game it is also.  I remember someone thinking my Gyruss was losing it's monitor because everything looked dark on the edges.  They didn't realize it was a special effect designed to give the illusion of 3-D....

Ikari Warriors.

[MaximRecoil]

Not to sound stupid or anything, but I've seen "dust" on the face of the tube cause a similar effect in daylight.

I know what you mean by that; I've seen it happen on my PC monitor. But that isn't what is happening here. I keep the tube clean, and it is not the same effect as when there is dust on the screen.

Also, one local "TV repair" shop that I know that actually still has a rejuvinator that I've dealt with locally will only charge me if it actually helps fix the problem.
So ya might even ask about that option.

That would be nice. I'm thinking about asking him if he has a tube and yoke that would work with my chassis, which would probably be a better option. I don't know what I'd need to know about the tube though to know if it would be compatible, aside from the neck pin pattern. Something about yoke impedance? Is that it? How do I find that out, and what sort of impedance would I need for a K4900 chassis?

[modessitt]

If you're around Central Texas and my boss isn't around to complain about "wasted time", I wouldn't charge to rejuv it.  Doesn't take that long anyway.....

[MaximRecoil]

If you're around Central Texas and my boss isn't around to complain about "wasted time", I wouldn't charge to rejuv it.  Doesn't take that long anyway.....

Unfortunately I'm not (I'm in Maine). I appreciate the offer though.

[SirPeale]

If you're around Central Texas and my boss isn't around to complain about "wasted time", I wouldn't charge to rejuv it.  Doesn't take that long anyway.....

Sounds like your boss and my ex-boss are split from the same mold.

[modessitt]

He always complains about having to spend money and never orders parts until the last minute or until we needed it last week.  I had a Tron come in with battery acid leakage down ther MCR power supply yesterday.  As we didn't have either another MCR, a switcher, or a MCR-to-switcher adapter in the shop, I started rebuilding it.  About halfway through the day yesterday, a local hobbyist stopped by and happened to mention "Why are you rebuilding it when you can just order the adapter for $65?"     Of course, right away my boss starts asking me for progress reports every 10 mins because he doesn't want me wasting time when we can order this part (and a $20-25 switcher), like he would even order it for a few weeks anyway.  After removing about 20 parts, cleaning off all the corrosion, installing new parts, rebuilding 3 connectors, and resetting the voltage adjustments, the game works perfectly today.  Spent a total of $7 for parts, then another $70 for four lights, 2 starters, a new battery, and a cap kit for the monitor.  Game is being delivered (and paid for) tomorrow.  If we had done it his way, the game would have set for another 2-3 weeks before he got around to ordering the parts.   

And I got to play Tron for the afternoon while I "tested" it.... 

[ahofle]

Man, other than your irritating boss, that sounds like an satisfying/enjoyable job.

[SirPeale]

Man, other than your irritating boss, that sounds like an satisfying/enjoyable job.

That's amazing...sounds a LOT like my ex check-signer.  Always waiting until the last minute, saying one thing, and then denying he ever said it...

I do miss the work, but I don't miss the aggravation.

[modessitt]

Well, I was in the military once-upon-a-time so I've gotten good at accepting what I can't change and ignoring the B.S.....

And I get quite a variety of games to work on and "test".  In the past few weeks I've had a Tempest, Tron, Tetris, Ms. Pac, Golden Tee '07, Mario Kart, DK Jr., Star Castle, Wizard of Wor, Gauntlet II, Crazy Climber, Space Duel cocktail, Computer Space, etc....  Currently, have a Defender, Spy Hunter, Space Panic, and Asteroids in the shop.  In the next few weeks I'll be working on a Star Wars cockpit, 2 Lunar Landers, Gravitar, 3 Space Wars (2 Cinematronics and 1 Vectorbeam), Space Duel upright, and who knows what else.  Not to mention the six 48-in-1 multicades we've sold.....

[Wade]

Sounds like it needs a rejuv to me.  I have a monitor like that which is difficult to see even with the lights out in my gameroom (all the other games make so much light, it is similar to having a light on).  I'd try the $25 repair shop or just find a different monitor.  Though sometimes finding a good tube for these old monitors can be a challenge.

Wade

[clanggedin]

If you watch ebay you can pick up a rejuvenator for under $20. I'd only recommend one if you have more monitors that need it.