My new hobby..... Homebrewing!

[releasedtruth]

Well, I've been enjoying my arcade for nearly 6 months now and I built a prime custom on the first try so I don't have a huge need for another, but I needed a new hobby and I brewed my first Amber Ale yesterday evening and it's fermenting in my arcade room of all places. It's good to bring hobbies together I say. Anyone else a brewer?? About May 29th I'll be drinkin and playin some serious arcade action, all crafted with my own 2 hands!

Arrrgh mateys!

-GT

[danny_galaga]

with all the boozers on here, im surprised no ones has replied to this thread yet! drew? bones? boss7?

[releasedtruth]

The guys I brew with do about as complicated a process as you can (all grain no sparge), but they max at about 45 bucks for 50 bottles. We make all our specialty equipment so it's real reasonable. Cost me about 195 to make my first batch and I don't need to buy anything else for a while. Got an immersion chiller, 3 carboys, hydrometer, amber kit, thermometers, caps, airlocks, etc. Some of the stuff I got used cause people ditch the hobby, which is nice for me.

Can't wait to taste it! If you guys lived nearby we could game and drink it up come end of May. I need to come up with a special MAME brew, any ideas?

[KenToad]

Cool, nice to see another brewer on here.  I've been brewing for three years now.  Brewing goes right along with arcade cabinet building, IMO.  I'm still dreaming of getting a kegerator pedestal for my bartop and having two taps off the side.  One day ...

Regarding cost, after you get the equipment, it's really only as expensive as the ingredients you purchase, i.e. depending upon how elaborate of a beer you want to make.  I paid 25 dollars for my last batch of ingredients for a Sam Smith Nut Brown clone, which is a pretty simple beer.  That makes 50 and a couple 12 ounce bottles or one five gallon keg.  You also have to factor in the fact that, with rare exception, the finished product is ten times better than your average cheaply produced American Macrobrew, which can't even be sold in Europe, Britain and other beer appreciating places because it's so polluted which sugars derived from corn and rice, not to mention artificial flavors.  Bud, Coors and Miller basically make a diluted whiskey or vodka and use a tiny bit of real hops and a generous helping of "natural" flavors to get it to taste something like a lush's morning breath.

Regarding shelf life, a 3-5% Alc. by volume pale beer will generally achieve peak flavor at around 6 months and some people will say that it will develop some aftertaste after a year of storage.  Stronger and/or darker beers will peak later, but I've known people to store just about any type of beer for several years and still say it tasted fine.  I've never kept a beer for that long.  And I've never thrown one out.  We have regular homebrew competitions around here, so I know that it is possible to make a beer that is full-flavored and not particularly good.  It just never happened to me.  

Releasedtruth, I highly recommend the recipe book, Beer Captured.  It's a great place for clones of amazing commercial beers (check out the recipe for Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot Barleywine   ) and also a good way to learn how to make various styles of beer.  I'm in Ohio, by the way.  Where are you?

[KenToad]

Yeah, at least they're trying.     But they will never use 100% real ingredients as long as the law doesn't require them to label with ingredients or just use real stuff, since real ingredients need to be fresh and are way more expensive, so their bottom line would suffer.  Partially, it's not their fault.  At least as I understand the situation, alcohol is very heavily taxed in the US.  In Germany, you can get a half liter of beer from the supermarket for .40 Euro cents.  And that's for a real beer.  That's also due to more competition in Germany, but I think we will never see that kind of price here, with the system of taxation being as it is. 

But, they are starting to feel the pinch that Sierra Nevada and the other popular craft breweries are putting on them. 

[releasedtruth]

I'm in Tucson, AZ. Definitely warm in these parts about now. While we were brewing I was 'relaxing and having a homebrew' for these gents I work with. They made a Dark Wheat, Apple Cider, and Coffee and Cream stout that were just incredible, better than almost anything I've tasted bottled and I've been through much of the Old Chicago world beer tour. Can't wait to up the skill enough to go all-grain with them and make some magic happen.

[KenToad]

Mmmmm, I'm getting thirsty reading these posts.  Must be the weather.   

Definitely do the all grain when you get the chance, released truth.  It tastes better and cuts the cost by about a third, since malted grain is so much cheaper than malt extract.

[MikeQ]

I did this for a while.  It got tired of the bottling process.  When we moved into our new house, I didn't feel like packing up 200 empty bottles.  I gave them to a home brewing friend.  I planned on getting a keg and doing it that way but eventually lost interest.

I used to make a really good honey wheat.

[ChadTower]

I have always wanted to get into this but it's one of those "eh, you already have 25 space consuming hobbies" issues. 

[KenToad]

I did this for a while.  It got tired of the bottling process.  When we moved into our new house, I didn't feel like packing up 200 empty bottles.  I gave them to a home brewing friend.  I planned on getting a keg and doing it that way but eventually lost interest.

I used to make a really good honey wheat.

Kegging really changes the hobby.  It's faster than bottling and really nice to put a keg on ice on the back patio for a party.

[releasedtruth]

Kegging's great unless you're a serious sod like me and use huge growlers for bottling, then you don't need many bottles at all and are that much closer the to inebriation city

[patrickl]

Never been much of a beer drinker, but I always wanted to try distilling. My highschool chemistry teacher was doing it and the drinks he created were quite amazing.

In Bulgaria lots of people ferment and distill their own drinks and while on vacation there I looked at some home distilling setups, but it's all just too much work. And the distillery is pretty expensive. Probably illegal overhere too.

[kevink27]

I've done it in the past with pretty good results.  I tried bottles at first but quickly got tired of all the cleaning and sanitizing.  Bought a couple of those little mini-kegs.  That is the best thing I have found to use.   If you like you can still bottle a few to give to friends.

[MikeQ]

I did this for a while.  It got tired of the bottling process.  When we moved into our new house, I didn't feel like packing up 200 empty bottles.  I gave them to a home brewing friend.  I planned on getting a keg and doing it that way but eventually lost interest.

I used to make a really good honey wheat.

Kegging really changes the hobby.  It's faster than bottling and really nice to put a keg on ice on the back patio for a party.

I use to do 15 gallons at a time (3 carboy at a time) with 3 different brews.  Usually a Honey Wheat, IPA and an Australlian lager.  The problem with kegging is having a fridge to store them in.  I could hijack a lower rack of the fridge for my bottles but no way I'd be able to store 3 kegs without a couple dedicated fridges.  Plus, I had kids and found all my time consumed with other things.  Not to mention my cholesterol and weight was getting up their.  I found cutting out beer except on special occasions really did the trick.

[knave]

My dad has been brewing beer for 15 years.  We just finished our first brew together.

Better late than never...We made 10 gallons of a Irish red style ale and it is tasty. 

I'm just getting into it...I have the advantage of being able to get a lot of hand-me-down equipment.  We have a nice local brewing store here so I'll pick up a kit and whatever else I need once I collect all the bottles I need.  (by drinking them.)

[ChadTower]

My dad has been brewing beer for 15 years.  We just finished our first brew together.

HOLY CRAP it takes your dad a long time to make a brew. 

[knave]

 

LOL...walked into that one.

OK, he's been brewing for 15 years and I joined him for this last one.

It was the first time I helped make the beer although I been helping him drink it for a while...

Now I'll make my own...and ChadTower can't have any...

[ChadTower]

Now I'll make my own...and ChadTower can't have any...

You're harsh.

[drunkatuw]

I've had a kegerator for over 5 years now, but after leaving college (Madison, WI...hence the name drunkatUW) it's getting harder to find 1/4 barrels of anything other than bud light or miller lite.  So I've been contemplating brewing my own. 

My brother has been doing it for a few years now, so I'm hoping to help him match a batch to get the hang of it and then start brewing my own sometime this summer.

[knave]

As a novice I really was amazed at how straight forward the process is once you've done it.

Boil...add stuff...wait...

carboy...add stuff...wait...

Bottling...add stuff...wait...

Aside from washing out the bottles. (my pops method makes this pretty easy) nothing was really work.

[ChadTower]

Waiting for beer is very hard work.

[releasedtruth]

Yeah, the waiting is killing me already, but I've been researching for my next brew. I'll probably go AG once I have the requisite knowledge, which may be shortly, but I start school in 2 weeks... I'll def need a few brews around that time...

[ChadTower]

What we need is to apply this concept to mame cabs.  More projects will get done that way.

"So, my project is playable, but eventually I'll run out of credits, so I have to get working on the next project in the mean time."

[DrewKaree]

with all the boozers on here, im surprised no ones has replied to this thread yet! drew? bones? boss7?

I just found this thread today


I'm currently pissing money out to get my CDL and hope to buy my first batch of ingredients in 2 weeks.  I've got all my supplies and will scam some stuff from other interests to get this working.

I picked up some food-grade buckets from a bar/restaurant I hit up once a week, so I saved $20-30 over carboys, and I also have a turkey fryer setup that I will be using for the brewing so as not to stink up the house, and it also saves me from having to buy a brewpot.  As far as bottling, that's why I decided to go with the bucket method.  Spigot and clamp, and I'm as good as gold.

If you realize you hate the bottling, and want to move to kegging, you can take the intermediate step of getting a party pig (Google is your friend) and going that route for a bit. 

I also JUST got a dorm fridge for FREE on Saturday (wife works at the dump, and the guy bought a new one that "went with the decor" and wanted to ditch the old one but they don't take refrigerators so she called me up to see if I wanted it).  I'll be using that for any lagering needs.

Good luck to you.  I'm gonna assume you picked up the joy of homebrewing book (relax ).  Now head off to www.northernbrewer.com and have 'em send you a catalog for all the crap you never knew you wanted

[KenToad]

Drew,

Nice work getting into the hobby with a bang.  I started with some inherited carboys from my grandfather's winemaking and an "ale pail," which is basically a food grade bucket with a stopcock (somebody save me from the BYOAC dorks, but, since I'm pleasantly responding to the man and it would be his crew that would most likely respond, maybe I'll avoid the inevitable dumb jokes this time ) and a hole at the top for the waterlock (I'm forgetting my brewing terminology).  Joy of homebrewing is great with the mantra of relaxation, as you mentioned, but Beer Captured is by far the best recipe book, IMO.  It even has some interesting beer food recipes in the back. 

Score on the fridge, but I wouldn't really recommend the party pig to anyone, since I seem to remember that it needs some kind of non-reusable propellent canister in order to function.  A couple of soda kegs and a CO2 tank can be had really cheaply.  Some people even have managed to get used kegs for pennies from a soda distributor. 

About lagering, I wouldn't do it in buckets.  It just seems like it would be so long sitting in that plastic that you will get some leeching, food-grade or not.  Also, don't forget that your fridge will need to be no colder than 45-50 degrees. 

Take it easy. 

[RTSDaddy2]

Oh great...here's another thing to tell the wife I want to try and do at some point.  Who's writing the book this time?   

[ChadTower]

Must... resist... wife works at the dump joke...

[knave]

Drew, being a noob, I'm not sure how you are going to use the food grade buckets instead of carboys.  Where/how are you going to fit the airlock.  I suppose you could mod the lid.

I really didn't mind the bottling process and since the bottles are a by-product of my other habits they are practically free.  

My dad has the best boil pot...It's an old keg with an opening cut in the top and a spout welded in the bottom.  Works great...holds lots...

[DrewKaree]

Drew, being a noob, I'm not sure how you are going to use the food grade buckets instead of carboys.  Where/how are you going to fit the airlock.  I suppose you could mod the lid.

That's the process exactly.  Get a stopper to fit your airlock, then drill a hole in the lid and put the airlock/stopper in the hole.  A blowoff hose would work too if you prefer that method for primary fermentation (store owner told me I might want to go that route after I brew a few batches if the airlock is blowing off, and WILL work in the buckets).  The lids for the buckets snap on tight enough for this process.

Using the bucket, the spigot is easily added by doing the same thing (drill a hole and hook up the spigot).  Oh yeah, I also forgot - the local homebrew store had a spigot for $5, but I ended up taking it back when I happened to go into American Science & Surplus and they had the SAME exact thing for $1.25, and I got a nicer hydrometer beaker-mabob.  Mebbe they've got those spigots on their website

[KenToad]

[
Using the bucket, the spigot is easily added by doing the same thing (drill a hole and hook up the spigot).  Oh yeah, I also forgot - the local homebrew store had a spigot for $5, but I ended up taking it back when I happened to go into American Science & Surplus and they had the SAME exact thing for $1.25, and I got a nicer hydrometer beaker-mabob.  Mebbe they've got those spigots on their website

Wow, Drew, I would rather support my local DIY Brew store than save $3.  Seems a bit flinty that you went to the trouble to bring it back and had the guy give you back your five dollars.

Oh, well.  And, for the love of whatever, buy a carboy or three for your barleywines meads and lagers.  You'll thank me later when your beer doesn't have a plastic aftertaste.

 

[DrewKaree]

[
Using the bucket, the spigot is easily added by doing the same thing (drill a hole and hook up the spigot).  Oh yeah, I also forgot - the local homebrew store had a spigot for $5, but I ended up taking it back when I happened to go into American Science & Surplus and they had the SAME exact thing for $1.25, and I got a nicer hydrometer beaker-mabob.  Mebbe they've got those spigots on their website

Wow, Drew, I would rather support my local DIY Brew store than save $3.  Seems a bit flinty that you went to the trouble to bring it back and had the guy give you back your five dollars.

Oh, well.  And, for the love of whatever, buy a carboy or three for your barleywines meads and lagers.  You'll thank me later when your beer doesn't have a plastic aftertaste.

I'll re-post a response later after I've been awake for a bit....I may be jumping all over you for nothing other than being awake for only a short bit of time, but suffice it to say, you're coming off as the snob on beer-making forum who simply disses ideas without giving reasons.

Please address "Better Bottles", their plastic formulation, a food-grade bucket, and soda bottled in plastic bottles (and their "aftertaste") if you feel the need to add your reasons before I get back from work and re-read this.  Oh, and the "spend more money on a hobby to practice something you wouldn't otherwise do in another situation".

[KenToad]

Ok, don't worry.  I don't consider it an insult to be called a beer snob.  If you were near me, I would give you a nice glass carboy instead of arguing with you, so if you're ever near Southeast Ohio, shoot me a PM, seriously. 

As far as reasons, I think leeching from plastic, food grade or not, isn't really in dispute, just quantity of chemicals leeched, length of time it takes to happen and whether it will ever affect your health/taste buds.  At least one of the homebrewing books I read mentioned the phenomenon.  I think it was that one by the metallurgist guy, can't remember his name, but it was called something generic like "brewing beer."  I highly recommend the book to you, since he has some amazing diagrams/instructions for making your own Mashtun/lautering equipment from stuff you can pick up at the hardware store.

Anyway, are you one of those guys who tips exactly 18%, and drops a few pennies from your pocket to make it look sweeter?  I really will never see the point of not supporting your local shop when it really is just a few bucks here, a few bucks there. 

Our local shop is operated and owned by one really nice and talkative guy, who can't afford to hire help and who will just as well give you a beer and play chess with you all day as sell you something, not to mention let you brew in his store and chip in to make a double batch that he will gladly share.  He is the first to say if you could get something cheaper in another place, and will explain that he simply has to deal with his distributor and markup a little for his own profit.

[divemaster127]

I have been wanting to get into this hobby, just what i need, which kit at http://www.northernbrewer.com/ is the best bang for the buck
thanks for the advice
dm

[KenToad]

That starter kit doesn't look too bad, but for simple brews I just use the spigoted ale pail with the lid with the hole in the top and a fermentation lock.  Then, you can just brew it, let it ferment in there and bottle/keg it straight from the pail.  If it's very complex, then I would probably let it brew for the first two weeks in the pail and then rack it to a glass carboy.  I pretty much always use the pail with the spigot for bottling though.  Also, you may not need things like the siphon starter or the bottle filler or the hydrometer, for that matter, but then again I have used all that stuff and I wouldn't say any of it is useless. 

Hope that helps.

[DrewKaree]

Ok, don't worry.  I don't consider it an insult to be called a beer snob.

Most don't

I just woke up after a long day yesterday and for some reason decided to check in there before work.  There was actually a lot longer post that I removed after thinking I might not be awake enough to look at this without being angry.

I think you're missing what I'm saying about the spigot though.  I'm pointing it out because of precisely the image in the minds of some folks that this'll be expensive to start with, and that even some of the kits offered would be kinda pricey if it turns out to be just a "test".  Note the mention of how much was spent by one poster, and by others who mention the fact that many sell off their equipment.  That points to people either not being interested enough to keep up with homebrewing, or thinking it's more hassle (and expense) than it's worth. 

What I'm trying to point out is that there may be others like me who aren't sure, and might want to test this out, and the idea of "supporting your local homebrew shop" has absolutely zero to do with their purchasing decisions - again, note divemaster's question about an online merchant, as an example. 

IF, after the initial investment and some time has passed, we find ourselves wanting to stick with it, we can easily "move up" to better equipment.  The odds are very good that by that point, a person will have found their local homebrew shop, and will then go to that place.  For myself, personally, I have no need to support the shop I bought my spigot from, nor would I ever go back there.  I purchased from them out of convenience, thinking I would be brewing the next day or perhaps later that night.  Turns out I didn't, and I ended up finding a better shop that I bought all the rest of my equipment from.  Those folks, I WOULD support if I continue homebrewing.  I've also found out since then that the owners happen to be friends with my father-in-law's friend who spiffs us free wine all the time if we find him a free fruit source.  From the start though, I don't feel a need to "support my local store" simply because they offer a product.  Much like those here who would choose to hack a keyboard instead of buying an encoder, there isn't a "need" to support those people, you choose to do these things based on the benefit to yourself.  Spending more money with someone on a product I can find elsewhere for less has absolutely no relation to tipping, nor do I feel bad about doing so, and alerting others to how they too might lessen their initial investment into homebrewing.


The chemicals from plastic we can get info from all over the place.  Like you had stated earlier, you weren't sure (nor am I) the amount of transfer.  I feel VERY confident that the amount of time in fermentation won't contribute much if any aftertaste, since they currently sell beginner kits with plastic buckets and I believe homebrew businesses wouldn't sell them at all if they would excessively taint a batch and turn off a beginner from the whole process.

I'll look up the book you're talking about (or try to suss out what the name of it is).  If you can remember the specific name, lemme know.  I'm all kinds of interested in making my own stuff instead of spending a fortune for it, obviously

[DrewKaree]

As for the costs of my setup and what I've got:

• Free -- Turkey Fryer.  Mine has a 30 qt pot.  Smaller ones may or may not work for you.  Got it at Wal-Mart for $30 (although I didn't buy it for making beer).  Since I already had it, I consider this item to be "free"
• Free -- 2 5 gallon food-grade buckets  Free.  Hit up a local restaurant (I happen to frequent a bar/restaurant on Tuesdays that gave me 4).  Don't forget the lids!  You CAN use pickle buckets, but you'll need at least a week, and some preparation
• $4 -- stopper & airlock (I got the 3-piece airlock - easier to clean).
• $2.50 -- 2 spigots from American Science & Surplus, or $5/each from your local homebrew shop or Northern Brewer
• $5-6? -- Thermometer - I got a floater from the local homebrew shop, which was equal in price to Northern Brewer
• $6 -- Hydrometer - when I asked the owner of the local shop if they had the combo hydrometer/thermometer, he told me he did, but that I'd be better served by buying separate items for that.  When they break ("and they WILL break", he said ) you aren't stuck with a useless piece of equipment that costs the same as two separate pieces of equipment
• $2 -- hydrometer test jar (your hydrometer may come with one - mine was plastic, and I didn't trust it)
• Free -- thermometer  One came with the turkey fryer, and I used to work in a restaurant, so I've got 2 dial and 1 digital models that handle the temps
• $2 -- bottlecaps from the local homebrew store
• $30 -- benchtop capper
• Free -- 50+ bottles.  I live in Wisconsin.  We're all about beer here.  My father-in-law has old returnable bottles all over the place here for some reason.  I'm going to purchase 3-4 growlers for my first batch, and use the rest to "test out" the bottles
• $25 more or less -- tubing, spoon to stir (can buy 2 for $6 at Sam's Club), hose clamp, and other crap I can't remember
• $10 -- StarSan, 16 oz

Ingredients weren't included.  Depends on what I'll brew.

[DrewKaree]

I have been wanting to get into this hobby, just what i need, which kit at http://www.northernbrewer.com/ is the best bang for the buck
thanks for the advice
dm

Their basic starter kit is exactly what I based all my purchases off of.  The only difference between theirs and what I got is that their airlock (fermentation lock....terminology is confusing at times) is the bubble type.  I got a 3-piece airlock because I was told the airlock might come loose while in primary fermentation, and while it isn't a problem, the 3-piece is easier to re-sanitize and stick back in.

This is a bubble type:


This is the 3-piece type:

[knave]

Many of the brewers in my area have switched to foodgrade plastic carboys, I've been drinking their beer for years and have never noticed any aftertaste or taint from the plastic. 

That said...I'm sure it probably is "safer" to use glass. 

Drew: How are you going to fit an airlock to your bucket for the secondary?

[bfauska]

I am not judging, only pointing out what I find interesting.

I highly recommend the book to you, since he has some amazing diagrams/instructions for making your own Mashtun/lautering equipment from stuff you can pick up at the hardware store.

Wow, Drew, I would rather support my local DIY Brew store than save $3.  Seems a bit flinty that you went to the trouble to bring it back and had the guy give you back your five dollars.

Can't you get Mashtun/lautering equipment from a local DIY Brew store?


On a similar/slightly related note.  I have always purchased my equipment locally at the DIY brew shop, with the exception of my wort cooler.  I just picked up 25' of 1/4" copper tube at HD and used the appropriate fittings on the end to hook it to a hose, looks just like what they sell and cost much less. 

  I think that there is a balance between blindly supporting people who can use your business and finding the cheapest-possible-overseas-knock-off-product that you can.  I feel bad if I go into a "Mom&Pop" store and ask all kinds of questions only to go buy the part they suggested somewhere else... unless they are expecting to live in a world where they pay retail prices for their merchandise and then try to do a standard 100% markup before selling to their customers.  I am willing to pay a premium for good service, but they need to follow some kind of business plan that allows them to still at least come close to the prices at other places.

  Also, even though I never seem to have enough time, I never place much monetary value on my time.  If I can save $5 by doing a 1/2 hour project it seems worth it to me, my time is really only worth the wage I make at work during the hours somebody is willing to pay me that wage, if I had to take an hour off of work to save $5 on a project, there's no way I would do it, but in my "free" time, my time is basically free.  Making the chiller for example was a savings even though it took me some time to find the parts and assemble them.

[KenToad]

Drew, that book I mentioned is called "How To Brew" by John J. Palmer.  It is a really good book, more technical (the appendixes, "Using Hydrometers," "Brewing Metallurgy," "Building Wort Chillers," and "Building A Mash/Lauter Tun," are worth the price alone) and actually probably a better manual than the Joy of Homebrewing, although I like both. 

Well, I still say you're flinty for buying the second spigot in order to save $2 after bringing the first one back.  But, that's not really important.  What's awesome is that you're actually doing it.  It's obvious that you've really done your research.  If you really want a boring read and want to learn all about advanced double and triple decoction methods for lagering, then get "New Brewing Lager Beer" by Greg Noonan. 

About sanitizing, don't worry too much about it, as Papazian says.  It is really unlikely that anything will get contaminated even if you are really sloppy.  I have been brewing for three years and made the beer and mead for my own wedding and my best friend's wedding (got a loud toast from 150 tipsy people  ) and I have been getting consistently more sloppy as I realize that the odds are really in my favor.  So I have and use both types of airlocks and I usually just rinse them out with water and refill them if the beer fouls them up, for example.  And, freshness of ingredients matters a lot more than being careful with any part of the brew.

I also have a smashing recipe for mead, if you're interested.  You'll have to wait a year for it to clear, though.

Oh, yeah, definitely make a wort chiller, as Brian said.  The faster you can get it cooled down after the boil, then the better it will taste, since the hops will be less likely to get oversteeped.   The owner of my local homebrew shop is all about the DIY, even if it costs him business.

*Edited for clarity*