Help with Vertical Games on WG25k7191 with ArcadeVGA

[MannyTC]

I am using Andy's ArcadeVGA with a WG 25k7191. I can run windows xp (640x480)and horizontal games just fine but a lot of vertical games running on the horizontal monitor are off the top and bottom of the screen.

Specifically, here is what I am doing. I run Windows @ 640x480 and set the vertical size and position on the monitor so it looks good. Then I run Donkey Kong at 352x256 and readjust the vertical size to be a little smaller than Windows was so it fits nicely. Then I run Pacman at a resolution of 352x288 and it is way off the top and bottom. If I change the vertical size so that it all fits then I have about a 2 inch empty area at the top since the vertical position pot won

[jerryjanis]

I tried Pacman and Donkey Kong and they work great.  I'm using ArcadeVGA, Win98, WG 25k7191 monitor, mameanalogv66 and Mame32v62b.

From the command line, I run:

mameanalog pacman -ddraw -switchres -switchbpp -nohwstretch

Alternatively, using Mame32v62b I use the following settings:

Display tab:
---------------
Run in a window (NOT CHECKED)
Start out maximized (CHECKED)
Enforce Aspect Ratio (CHECKED)
Throttle (CHECKED)

Advanced Tab:
------------------
Use Direct Draw (CHECKED)
Switch resolutions to fit (CHECKED)
Switch color depths to fit (CHECKED)
Hardware stretch (UNCHECKED)

Resolution size & depth: auto

Somewhere in the instructions for the ArcadeVGA it says to use these settings.  I think that in a very few cases, this hasn't worked.  At times I have resorted to using hardware stretch and setting the resolution manually to 640x480...  It's a poor solution because it will be interlaced & slightly shaky, but for some games (such as the high res ones) it's the best way that I've found to get them to work (and it looks really good considering that high res graphics are being displayed on a low res monitor).

[jerryjanis]

When I run Donkey Kong like that, it fills up pretty much the whole screen (therefore it's probably stretching it horizontally)...  I just manually set donkey kong to 352x256 and it looks perfect, with black bars on the sides.

[MannyTC]

Donkey Kong is not really the problem. It is games like Pacman that have a higher vertical res. the 352x288 is the problem. Try running Pacman with that resolution and see what you get. On mine the image is off the top and bottom of the screen. Obviously if I run a different res I can get it to fit but the 352x288 is what is recommended for games of that resolution.

Also, I am running Windows command-line MAME, not Mame32. I do have hardware stretch off and all other settings are default. I am using custom INI's for the resolutions provided by Gavin on the Ultimarc website. Most everything works great except the veritcals that need 288 lines.

[jerryjanis]

Ok, I ran Pacman at 252x288, and it leaves me with about a half-inch portion of the screen cut off at the bottom (which I find completely acceptable, personally - these game were pretty much unplayable for me in the past back in my trident blade days).  And I have to play with the vertical size and v-hold of the monitor also.



One thing that I noticed before is that if you set up a vertical game (like pacman) to play on your monitor rotated 90 degrees, it displays perfectly (which makes sense, because I'm guessing that the ArcadeVGA supports the actual arcade resolutions vertically, but displaying them horizontally is NOT using normal arcade resolution).

It looked a lot worse before I learned about the 50khz-60khz pot on the monitor.

If you're looking to get a picture that looks like mine, try getting rid of Gavin's Pacman .ini & try running:

mame pacman -ddraw -switchres -switchbpp -nohwstretch

I wonder if you would get the same results as me?

[MannyTC]

Ok, I tried running Pacman with your command line options and it is the same as it was before. Here are some pics of the various screens I mentioned in my previous posts.



First is my XP desktop running at 640x480. There is a slight black band on top and bottom when running Windows so that games like Donkey Kong can fit properly. Notice Donkey Kong fits great. Now when I run Pacman the score is cutoff and the very bottom of the maze is missing. Note that the pic shown is without trying to adjust the vertical size from what is was with the other screens. I don't want to be opening my control panel to fiddle with the controls when changing games.

I understand that since the vertical size is taller that there really is no way to have Pacman fit without everything else looking too small. The other problem though is if I make the vertical size smaller so that Pacman fits it is squished because my vertical position pot won't allow me to move the picture any closer to the top of the screen. I guess my only choice is to run Pacman at the same resolution as Donkey Kong and use hardware stretch to get it to fit.

[jerryjanis]

Ahh, well, I wish I could help more...  It's a bit of a shame to have to interlace pacman and donkey kong...

Just out of curiosity, are you able to run Windows at 800x600 and 640x288?

Here's what mine looks like at:


640x288


800x600

In both cases, I have my vertical size shrunken as far as I possibly can (with my vertical size pot)...  The same is the case for my previous pictures of donkey kong and pacman.  I'm just wondering if maybe your knobs don't have the same range as mine?  I'll mention again that I am constantly readjusting my vertical size & sometimes the vertical hold for all the different resolutions.

[tom61]

MannyTC, I'm not positive, but looking at your pics your bezel is covering up part of your monitor, take it off and see if Pac man fits normally on the monitor.

[MannyTC]

Unfortunately no, the bezel is not blocking anything from view. The bezel doesn't cover any viewable area of the monitor.

[TacoSmuggler]

I am using Andy's ArcadeVGA with a WG 25k7191. I can run windows xp (640x480)and horizontal games just fine but a lot of vertical games running on the horizontal monitor are off the top and bottom of the screen.

Specifically, here is what I am doing. I run Windows @ 640x480 and set the vertical size and position on the monitor so it looks good. Then I run Donkey Kong at 352x256 and readjust the vertical size to be a little smaller than Windows was so it fits nicely. Then I run Pacman at a resolution of 352x288 and it is way off the top and bottom. If I change the vertical size so that it all fits then I have about a 2 inch empty area at the top since the vertical position pot won

[MannyTC]

I have been having the same problem. I am running almost the same setup as you too. I run in 640x480 because it is the most stable picture on my monitor. 800x600 gives me wavy band across the top that no POTS adjusting could fix.

Anyway, I found a fix for pacman and Donkey kong. Are you using mame32?

I have found this to work in almost all games that have a different resolution than the ones provided by the arcadevga card. Not all resolutions are included for some reason or another that Andy could explain.

-do this for only the games that you are having troubles with--

Right click on the game in Mame32. ---Properties--CLICK ON 'USE HARDWARE STRETCHING'!(I know andy says to turn it off-it works for certain games) Now set the display for the rom to 640x480.

That should work. It does on mine!  
( It used to get cut off at the bottom of the maze)

Lemmeknow if this helps!

Taco Smuggler

Yes we know that hardware stretching can be used to overcome that limitation. There is a few problems with that solution for the purists here who use Andy's card for the best authenticity.

First off using anything but the true resolution is not true to the original. Secondly, if you use 640x480 and hardware stretch you are introducing interlacing that gets you further away from an authentic screen. I was hoping to see if there was a good compromise of settings that other people might be using that would look good with all resolutions/orientation/games.

[tom61]

Yes we know that hardware stretching can be used to overcome that limitation. There is a few problems with that solution for the purists here who use Andy's card for the best authenticity.

First off using anything but the true resolution is not true to the original. Secondly, if you use 640x480 and hardware stretch you are introducing interlacing that gets you further away from an authentic screen. I was hoping to see if there was a good compromise of settings that other people might be using that would look good with all resolutions/orientation/games.

You might try 640x288 and Hardware stretching on, with effect set to sharp That should yeild a non-interlaced image with a decent look to it. You could also modify your monitor mount to be rotatable, that way you can run at native resolution.

[MannyTC]

You might try 640x288 and Hardware stretching on, with effect set to sharp That should yeild a non-interlaced image with a decent look to it. You could also modify your monitor mount to be rotatable, that way you can run at native resolution.

640x288 would have the same problem I am trying to get away from. 288 lines vertical is the problem. It stretches the picture too much off my screen and even if I change the vertical size the picture is squished because the vertical position pot won't allow me to center the picture any more.

I Thought about the rotating thing but seems like too much. I Don't think it is feasable in my MKII cabinet. I actually do have a 19" monitor I was going to use in a dedicated vertical cab but I have run out of space in my small gameroom. I already have an Asteroids Deluxe, Donkey Kong, Space Invaders Pinball, Slot Machine , Bar Style Dartboard and my Mame Cab. Not to mention the kids computer, and the Xbox, PSone and Dreamcast. Maybe I will just get a D9200 and replace the 25" WG. Won't have a problem with sizing on that monitor since its digital.

[squizz]

MannyTC.

  So are you saying that a WG-D9200 will allow you to have a pacman display on a horizontal screen full, without missing pictures or black boarders top and bottom ?


  if so why is this with a D9200 ?   and are there and screen shots of this D9200 monitor playing pacman without any loss, using the arcaevga board.

[MannyTC]

MannyTC.

  So are you saying that a WG-D9200 will allow you to have a pacman display on a horizontal screen full, without missing pictures or black boarders top and bottom ?


  if so why is this with a D9200 ?   and are there and screen shots of this D9200 monitor playing pacman without any loss, using the arcaevga board.

My understanding is that since the D9200 monitor is digital you can set the vertical/horizontal position/size for each video mode much like you can with a PC VGA monitor with digital controls. Since arcade monitors have analog controls they can only physically be in one setting at a time and you have to manually adjust for each video mode/resolution.

On a PC digital monitor you can adjust your screen settings for windows desktop lets say at 1024x768 and fit the size the way you want and the monitor remembers those settings. They you can run a game maybe at 800x600 and adjust for that without losing the settings you programmed for the 1024x768 desktop resolution. What I have heard about the D9200 is that it works this same way. (If anyone knows this information to be incorrect please let me know)

The best thing about the D9200 is now with Andy's new utility for the ArcadeVGA you can run all the standard arcade resolutions and still be able to run 640x480 and 800x600 non-interlaced which is better for Vector games and for more choices of frontend programs.

[rampy]

Hey Manny... just out of inane curiosity and documentation sake... did you ever work this out?  

Did you find a compromise? or ??

Rampy