add artifical scanlines to hdtv with classic consoles

[M.Lanza]

I recently got a 40" lcd tv and have been trying to get the best picture
out of all of my consoles.

So far, I've got the vga adapter for my dreamcast and component cables
for my xbox. however, I'm stuck on what to do with my genesis/cd/32x combo.
The picture i'm getting out of the genesis on this t.v. through composite cables
is terrible compared to the picture I was getting with my old t.v.

Anyway, I thought about getting an scart cable and running it through an
scart to component adapter in order to get pure RGB, but i'm afraid that if
I do that, the resulting video signal will be upscanned and deinterlased by the t.v.
which will cause the picture to look un natural and blocky like it does on my
xbox running the sega genesis emulator.

When I apply one of the video filters to the genesis emulator that adds 75% scanlines,
the picture looks more natural, almost like it would on a low rez crt monitor.
It's isn't perfect, but I would be happy if I could do somthing like that to the video signal
before it gets to the t.v. through hardware.

The only device that I can find that would add scanlines to a video signal is the XRGB2,
however, it's impossible to find one and it seems kind of expensive considering that
it has a bunch of extra features that I don't need or want.

So, is there a device out there that will only add scanlines to my video signal for a reasonable
price ($50-$100), or is the XRGB2 the best I can hope for (if I can find one anyway)?

[Howard_Casto]

Can I be blunt for a second?

You don't gold plate a dodge omni... that is essentially your problem. 

Composite cables are what you want.  It looks like crap because the genesis outputs crap as it's an old crappy machine.  The reason it didn't look like crap on your old tv is because it was crap as well, so you didn't notice.  Other than running the games emulated through the pc/xbox or wii virtual console so you can apply filters, it's gonna look awful no matter how you hook it up.  If you use RGB or scart it will intensify how bad it looks because there will be no natural blurring going on.  Svideo is about as high as you want to go quality-wize.  But I'm getting away from the point, remember you shouldn't gold-plate it eh?

You are willing to pay up to 100 bucks just to get scanlines inserted, when the more obvious solution is to use that money to get a cheap tv/projector that isn't digital.  The picture quality will look great on any analog monitor.  Or, if you insist on running these games on your new tv and you have a frikkin xbox running genesis in emulated mode... just run the games via emulators!!

[shmokes]

And if you don't have your Xbox modded so you can run emulators on it you sure as hell should be.  If someone came to me today and said that I had to give him either my Wii or my modded Xbox or I would die, and if I ever replaced the system I gave him I would die, I'd give him the Wii.  If someone came to me today and said that they would trade me an Xbox 360 or a PS3 for my modded Xbox on the condition that I could never replace the modded Xbox I would tell them to take a hike.  This will likely change down the road as the newer systems mature, but right now nothing compares to an Xbox, IMO.  It can just do so bloody much.  It's unbelievable.  People who don't have one should spend the cash and get one.  People who have an unmodded Xbox are just nutso.

[pointdablame]

And if you don't have your Xbox modded so you can run emulators on it you sure as hell should be.  If someone came to me today and said that I had to give him either my Wii or my modded Xbox or I would die, and if I ever replaced the system I gave him I would die, I'd give him the Wii.  If someone came to me today and said that they would trade me an Xbox 360 or a PS3 for my modded Xbox on the condition that I could never replace the modded Xbox I would tell them to take a hike.  This will likely change down the road as the newer systems mature, but right now nothing compares to an Xbox, IMO.  It can just do so bloody much.  It's unbelievable.  People who don't have one should spend the cash and get one.  People who have an unmodded Xbox are just nutso.

hey shmokes, you will die if you don't give me either your Wii or your modded Xbox.  It's true.. you will.


I'll PM you my address for the Wii.  Thanks buddy.

[shmokes]

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  I don't see a graceful way out of this one

[pointdablame]

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  I don't see a graceful way out of this one

 

[boykster]

I agree with Howard (gasp!) that trying to make old school consoles look "good" on an HDTV is kind of akin to polishing a turd if you will.  But that aside, I do understand what you are trying to do...keep/recreate the "feel" of playing these old consoles with the look and charm of playing on much lower resolution scanline based CRT's while playing on your shiny new HDTV.

Download a copy of Dscaler and see if they have any filters to add scanlines.  You'll need a pc with a composite video input, and a video card that can output a format your HDTV is compatible with.  I use a setup similar to this to UPSCALE and clean up video from a composite cable box to output to my component video HD matrix distribution system, but I see no reason why you couldnt' use a similar setup to create a scanline look

www.dscaler.org

 

[tetsu96]

lol, I'm suprised this topic is still going.

Howard's 100% right.  What varies is how much you want it to look authentic.  If you're a perfectionist, then a TV or arcade monitor is the only way to go (scratch that - you said consoles so just the TV, hang onto the monitor for other applications).  $50-$100 will get you a pretty good TV on craigslist so there's not much excuse for being unable to get something good.

At the end of the day, only CRTs look like CRTs.  Effects may make things look better, but you aren't any closer to the real thing.

[M.Lanza]

I see that there arn't many genesis fans here.
Well, the genesis is my favorite console and I am actively collecting for it,
so I don't think of it as gold plating a turd.

My request may be unconventional, but I thought that maybe asking this on a forum
designed to help people defy the standards, I could get answers that would help me
do what I want to do.

If someone wanted to turn a street fighter 2 cabinet into a mame cab, would they get the
answers they needed to guide them in the right direction, or would they be discourged
by people telling them to leave the street fighter 2 cab alone and keep mame on the pc?

I just want to play my genesis on my new t.v. while seeing the crystal clear detail and
vibrant colors that the genesis was designed to output without having the t.v. upscale
the picture to an un-natural blocky looking mess.

If I have to pay the $250.00 that an x-rgb 2 is commanding on ebay in order to make that happen,
then I will. I just wanted to know if there were less expensive alternatives with fewer features
that I will never use. That's all.

[shmokes]

Sheesh, tough crowd. 

Seems to me that Howard and Boykster, while thinking it might not be worth the effort, gave perfectly servicable suggestions.  Howard suggested getting an old analog projector and hinted at modding an Xbox.  I strengthened support for the modded Xbox suggestion.  Boykster suggested dscaler . . .

All of these things sound suspiciously like answers that could potential help you do what you want to do . . .

I do wonder if you remember the same Genesis that I remember . . .

the crystal clear detail and
vibrant colors that the genesis was designed to output

[M.Lanza]

It's probably not the same genesis you remember (if you live in the u.s. anyway).
While those of us in north america got shafted with RF and composite video.
The rest of the world got to experence the genesis in RGB through SCART or an equivalliant.

Howards suggestion was to get a crt tube t.v. and use that instead, or stick with composite
which doesn't look so great on a 40" lcd screen.
I do still have my old 27" phillips tv, but it is being used for other purposes. While I can just
get a genesis scart cable and use an scart to component adapter to output the equivalliant
of RGB to that tv. I would rather get the best possible picture from my genesis on my 40" widescreen.

Boykster's suggestion was to connect the genesis to my pc through a composite input and use
software to add scanlines, But if the end result is only a slightly improved composite output
quallity, than what's the point in adding scanlines.

The only reason I want to add scanlines is to keep the upscaled rgb output from the genesis
from looking so blocky.

I already have a modded xbox which is all well and good for the average person who wouldn't
think twice about chucking their old crap when a new console comes out, but I like playing on my
genesis and I want the best picture possible while i'm doing it.

I'm not going to ignore my genesis just because an emulator on the xbox can play the games
just as well. would some of you on here stop playing tempest or tron on your original cabinets
just because your mame cabinet can play the games just as well?

[ChadTower]

The Genesis does put out great crisp RGB and has a really good stereo circuit.  You have to mod the standard US Genesis to get it but it is very much worth doing.  The only console of its era that had sound like the Genesis was the TG16.

[NOP]

For xbox emulators, you might want to keep this page handy for tweaking your emulators to get the most oldskool bang.

(stolen from xbox-scene forum)
http://www.kppshngthbttn.com/?page_id=32

-jeff!

[shmokes]

Well, the suggestions might not accomplish exactly what you're looking for, but my point is that people are/were trying to help you.  Don't kick a gift horse in the mouth.

[M.Lanza]

Well, the suggestions might not accomplish exactly what you're looking for, but my point is that people are/were trying to help you.  Don't kick a gift horse in the mouth.

I wasn't trying to do that at all.
I thought that Maybe there was a misunderstanding regarding my first post, so I was just trying to
clairify what I was trying to do.
I wasn't meaning to offend anyone and I apologise if I had.

I guess I was expecting a simple answer to a complicated question.
Perhaps a I need to dig a little deeper into the net before I can find my answer.

[boykster]

I don't think there is a simple answer, but I think Chad's approach might be the best route to go. I had forgotten that you can tap RGB out of the genesis.  My suggestion of using dscaler and a processing filter is akin to the way that mame can add scanlines and other effects to make the games appear more like the classics on arcade monitors.  I don't KNOW that there is a filter that can do it, but I bet there is.

I took no offense by you not considering my suggestion as valid...your loss not mine