When is Wii going to take off?

[ChadTower]

Man I bet retail stores make tons of cash on gift cards that get lost/never used.  My wife gets a stack of them for Xmas every year and they just sit in a drawer.

[shmokes]

Best Buy adjusts their financial statements at the end of each year to reflect more than a $5 million increase in profit from expired/unused gift cards.  Unbelievable.

[ChadTower]

The company that owns most of the huge malls in MA has been sued by the attorney general a buttload of times over their gift card policies.  They have tried everything, from a hard expiration date, to a monthly maintenance fee taken from the balance, to a declining value schedule...

[Howard_Casto]

Regardless of other arguments on this thread, Super Paper Mario is out, so I guess the answer is "NOW" 

[shmokes]

Kind of.  They can't win with Gamecube games alone.  Nintendo has two kick ass games so far, and neither of them were made for Wii   

Seriously, though, there's some truth to it.  Niether takes advantage of the controller.  Either game could be done better on one of the other systems, IMO, considering that both games were made for a standard controller and 360/PS3 are SOOO much more powerful in terms of graphics and physics and sound, etc.  I really think the answer to my question is, "Not for a long time -- as in Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid."  I think Galaxy will be the big one, but if one or both of those titles fails to be utterly freaking amazing the system is doomed to third place.  And if we don't start seeing some amazing Non-Nintendo-published games the system is doomed to third place.  And if the system's releases continue to be Wii ports of games designed first for PS2 the system is doomed to third place.  The system is twice as powerful as a Gamecube.  Please, for the love of god, give me something that couldn't be done on a PS2.

[ChadTower]

Either game could be done better on one of the other systems, IMO, considering that both games were made for a standard controller and 360/PS3 are SOOO much more powerful in terms of graphics and physics and sound, etc.

I don't see that as having any relevance given that they are first party Nintendo games.  They'll never appear on the other platforms and everyone knows it.  If someone wants Mario or Zelda they buy Nintendo.  It doesn't have to be technically superior, it is superior in design and implmentation, and that is really more important.

[ark_ader]

Regardless of other arguments on this thread, Super Paper Mario is out, so I guess the answer is "NOW" 

Two of my lady colleagues are waiting for that game to come out.

What is the UK release date?

[KenToad]

Regardless of other arguments on this thread, Super Paper Mario is out, so I guess the answer is "NOW" 

Two of my lady colleagues are waiting for that game to come out.

What is the UK release date?

Did you congratulate them for being representative of your theory that Nintendo games are only for women and children and that you will defend their honor in this matter?

Or is that a sentiment that you reserve for your male friends who simply enjoy fun games? 

[shmokes]

Either game could be done better on one of the other systems, IMO, considering that both games were made for a standard controller and 360/PS3 are SOOO much more powerful in terms of graphics and physics and sound, etc.

I don't see that as having any relevance given that they are first party Nintendo games.  They'll never appear on the other platforms and everyone knows it.  If someone wants Mario or Zelda they buy Nintendo.  It doesn't have to be technically superior, it is superior in design and implmentation, and that is really more important.

Sure, and as Nintendo's last couple of systems have shown us all too well, the consistently high-quality (but pigeonholed) 1st/2nd party Nintendo games are not enough to keep them out of last place in the market.  That's how it's relevant.  And think of this little detail for a moment.  In the past Nintendo at least had a healthy number of cross-platform games like Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, Tomb Raider, etc. to bolster its animic library.  A person could say, I'm going to get a Nintendo cos I love their first party games, and I'll still get most of the major 3rd party releases that come out for every system.  Nintendo doesn't have that anymore.  Now, when Splinter Cell: Double Agent is released, the Wii version is a totally crippled piece of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- compared to the versions for the other systems.  Nintendo has disqualified their system from cross-platform releases.  So if they don't get a steady stream of high quality exclusive content from 3rd parties they will ONLY have 1st party releases to rely on.  And if the only showcase titles for the system, even those coming from Nintendo 1st parties, fail to use the only strength the system has, what does that say for its strength?  If the system's one and only strength (its controller) turns out to be anything other than awesome, the system suddenly has no significant strength over its competitors.  Consumers will eventually yawn and move on to the other systems. 

[ark_ader]

Regardless of other arguments on this thread, Super Paper Mario is out, so I guess the answer is "NOW" 

Two of my lady colleagues are waiting for that game to come out.

What is the UK release date?

Did you congratulate them for being representative of your theory that Nintendo games are only for women and children and that you will defend their honor in this matter?

Or is that a sentiment that you reserve for your male friends who simply enjoy fun games? 

I did mention it to them and they agreed that the nintendo appeal is due to the nature of the games, either way I don't really care, its just that they did mention the game to me and it struck a chord in Howards post.  I went to Game and it isn't on display so I would say a No at the moment.

Its one of the ladies birthday next month and I though it would make a great present and I thought it would be a nice gift instead of flowers and chocolates.  Its the thought that counts, right?

She was telling me that her kids roped her into a game of Wii sports and she became hooked.  Its pretty funny since she comes up to me asking about the other games for the Wii (which ones are good etc) and I don't own one.

Back on topic... If you spoke to her Ken I'm sure she would agree.  I hope you are not still upset with my comment about this Ken?  I did in no way invite a comment that dictates that you are a woman or a child, just a user of a console that women and children play today. 

[ChadTower]

So when does the Wii analog to the lower Rez PS2 controller come out?  That's when the Wii will take off.

[KenToad]

@ Arkader

well, it sounded as if you were trying to pass off your sarcastic comment as a legitimate question about when the game would be released. 

Just FYI, I played the hell out of the PSP for a week, including emus and a wide selection of titles.  I really wanted to like that system.  I think it looks damn cool and I wish they were available when I was a teenager, since I never really got into earlier incarnations of the Gameboy.  I'm a fan of Metal Gear Solid, so I was hoping to get into that game on the PSP, but the controls were just too damn stiff and awkward.  The best use of controls and my favorite game on the system was definitely Syphon Filter the Dark Mirror.  I also liked a few others and Mercury and Lumines of course.  I didn't get to play Loco Roco, unfortunately.  But, I have to say seriously, man-to-man now, that I found that device just cramped up my hands faster than an NES controller with a "broken" (hard to push) d-pad. 

If you were wise, you would own up to that serious deficiency in your prized gaming device and notice that you would not be the coolest kid at a college party if you pulled out your PSP.  They or anyone older would not find your games manly.  You would be respected by High Schoolers and adored by Junior High Schoolers.  And, yes, they probably think the big N is kiddie, too.

[Grasshopper]

IMHO the biggest mistake that Nintendo made was in not providing an option to add a hard drive to the Wii. In the long run that will really hurt them.

[ChadTower]

Is there a port that isn't being used yet?  Maybe it won't if they go with smaller more reliable solid state storage devices.  Memory cards sucked before because they didn't hold much.  Now you can get a gig for $15.  The Wii isn't designed to be a media station so it has no need of 200gig of storage.

[Grasshopper]

The Wii isn't designed to be a media station so it has no need of 200gig of storage.

Neither was the original Xbox but that didn't stop people using them as one. In any case, even if you don't want media centre capabilities, it's still convenient to be able to store games on the hard disk.

Once the 360 and PS3 modding scene gets into full swing it's going to be possible to do awesome things with those machines. It's at that point that the Wii's lack of a hard drive will really start to hurt.

[Samstag]

IMHO the biggest mistake that Nintendo made was in not providing an option to add a hard drive to the Wii. In the long run that will really hurt them.

(Tokyo, Japan - April 4, 2007) eSOL Co., Ltd. announced today that their leading embedded middleware products, "PrFILE2" FAT file system and "PrUSB/Host" USB host stack, were selected for the "WiiTM", from Nintendo Co.;.

Both software products constitute fundamental functionalities in the Wii console - managing and transferring data and files with external media. In particular, PrFILE2 provides file management functions which read and write data of theSD memory card, as well as other media;. PrUSB/Host functions are used in Wii, to provide USB host functions.

So there you go.  Maybe it'll be useful for a future version of the Wii, but until I see DVD support I'm not holding my breath for content support that would justify anything more than a 512 meg SD card.

Once the 360 and PS3 modding scene gets into full swing it's going to be possible to do awesome things with those machines. It's at that point that the Wii's lack of a hard drive will really start to hurt.

Huh?  So their big mistake is in not providing better access to pirated games and other content that doesn't generate any income? 

[Grasshopper]

Once the 360 and PS3 modding scene gets into full swing it's going to be possible to do awesome things with those machines. It's at that point that the Wii's lack of a hard drive will really start to hurt.

Huh?  So their big mistake is in not providing better access to pirated games and other content that doesn't generate any income? 

Well, a lot of piracy is clearly bad for the console manufacturers' business model but a little piracy can actually help them to increase their market share. Of course you'll never get Sony or M$ to admit this. For example, I bought an Xbox recently solely with the intention of modding it and running emulators. But I've now ended up buying three official Xbox games as well. My point? Well basically, if the Xbox wasn't capable of being modded then I wouldn't have bought one in the first place. I also wouldn't have purchased the three games either.

Another thing to bear in mind is that Sony has officially endorsed running Linux and others OSes on the PS3 (a very smart move IMHO). So that will inevitably lead to a lot of perfectly legal homebrew stuff.

[ChadTower]

Did you buy them new at retail?  That's the only way it helps the company.  Used games don't help them.

[Crax]

Huh?  So their big mistake is in not providing better access to pirated games and other content that doesn't generate any income? 

 For example, I bought an Xbox recently solely with the intention of modding it and running emulators. But I've now ended up buying three official Xbox games as well.

I bought and modded an xbox mostly for XBMC.  I have a large HD and a few games on it, but I rarely play them.  95% of my xbox usage is through XBMC.  I never would have bought an XBOX if I wasn't able to mod it.  I do own quite a few legit purchased games as well that I would have never purchased otherwise.

[Grasshopper]

Did you buy them new at retail?  That's the only way it helps the company.  Used games don't help them.

I bought them new but at bargain basement prices. So it's true that M$ probably didn't profit much from my purchases. But the main point is that, now I've bought an Xbox, I am less likely to buy one of the competitor's consoles.

[ChadTower]

Crax, Microsoft lost money on you as a customer.  The Xbox has always been sold as a loss leader.  If you don't buy games or accessories, they don't make a profit on you, and in fact they subsidized your XBMC station.

They wouldn't want to sell a console for third party use just for the fact that they don't make a profit on the console itself.  Nintendo usually just about breaks even but that's not the goal here either.

[Grasshopper]

People often state that M$ makes a loss on each console sold. But that's looking at the economics a bit simplistically. Most of the costs incurred by M$ (and Sony and Nintendo for that matter) are for research and design, marketing, and factory tooling. These costs are mostly fixed and independent of the number of units sold.

Obviously M$'s business model relies on a large number of highly profitable games being purchased in addition to the Xboxes themselves, in order to cover the fixed costs I've just mentioned. But it doesn't follow that M$ will actually lose money by selling a few additional Xboxes to non-game purchasers (i.e. modders) as long as most of the people buying Xboxes are also purchasing games.

Once the production line is set up, the cost of cranking out one additional Xbox is relatively tiny, and certainly far less than the purchase price.

[Crax]

Crax, Microsoft lost money on you as a customer.  The Xbox has always been sold as a loss leader.  If you don't buy games or accessories, they don't make a profit on you, and in fact they subsidized your XBMC station.

They wouldn't want to sell a console for third party use just for the fact that they don't make a profit on the console itself.  Nintendo usually just about breaks even but that's not the goal here either.

I understand how it works.  I have also bought at least 2 other microsoft brand controllers, a remote, and some games as well as a headset that I never would have purchased otherwise.  I think microsoft has at least broke even with me

[ChadTower]

Still, Crax, you'd have to agree that their goal is not to break even with you, thus you are not a good case for who they want to buy their console.  Nor am I, I have two Xboxes, both bought used, all of my games are bought used, and one of the Xboxes is used primarily for XBMC.

[AlanS17]

I'm gonna have to agree with CT for once. Software piracy can help someone like MS with Windows because it increases overall adoption and dependency. But everytime you hack an XBox, it comes out of MS's bottom line. And that's the end of the story.

For as popular as the Dreamcast was, why do you think it went under? There are probably several factors involved, but I'd have to put piracy at the very top of the list.

[ChadTower]

But everytime you hack an XBox, it comes out of MS's bottom line. And that's the end of the story.

I didn't say that.  What I said was that people who don't buy games or accessories new at retail aren't going to make MS any profit.  I didn't say anything about hacking or piracy.  Not everyone who runs XBMC pirates games.  I only have one downloaded Xbox game.

[Crax]

Still, Crax, you'd have to agree that their goal is not to break even with you, thus you are not a good case for who they want to buy their console.  Nor am I, I have two Xboxes, both bought used, all of my games are bought used, and one of the Xboxes is used primarily for XBMC.

I understand and agree that it isn't the best case scenario.  I haven't purchased more than a couple games new, but I have received at least 3-4 around holidays/birthdays from friends/family and I believe they were all new.  They may have not made a ton of money on me, but some is better than none isn't it?  I haven't even bothered with the newer consoles yet as I am pretty happy with my xbox.  I just don't think completely trying to disallow modding is best case either. Somewhere in between  would be good.  If you could make the piracy pretty difficult but at the same time allow some homebrew/OS stuff, I think a lot of people would like that.

[AlanS17]

I never said anything about game piracy, either. If you're hacking a game system (for whatever purpose), it's to use it for some reason other than its original purpose. There is no way for MS to make money off a system being used outside it's original purpose. You can use it for XBMC all day, but MS never sees the benefit.

If you buy a new XBox at a loss to MS and never buy any new games to accompany it, that's a net loss for MS. Simple enough, right?

[Edgedamage]

I never said anything about game piracy, either. If you're hacking a game system (for whatever purpose), it's to use it for some reason other than its original purpose. There is no way for MS to make money off a system being used outside it's original purpose. You can use it for XBMC all day, but MS never sees the benefit.

If you buy a new XBox at a loss to MS and never buy any new games to accompany it, that's a net loss for MS. Simple enough, right?

Most hardcore gamers who modded their xboxes were so worried about MS scanning drives with XBL. They bought a second box just for XBL I even went that route.

[GlennM]

I think games like these are what is causing the Wii to do well for people.
Manhunt 2
Godfather

Two friends of mine bought a Wii for Manhunt, though they have now purchased two games a pop. So Nintendo has made a fair amount of cash on them already, why, because they want to kill people with a Wiimote.

Let's face it, the Wii is doing as well as it can right, now, games sell well where I work, consoles sell out within 8 hours, Wiimotes sell out usually within a few days, all the accessories sell steadily. It is a good seller, far better then the PS3, whose accessories sell slowly and the consoles are always instock, and it ain't because we have a good supply either, they simply sell very slow. 

Now granted people may be buying Wiis because they are cheap, but they are buying them, and Nintendo is making money off of it, so what else matters.  I have one, I am very satisfied with it.

[ChadTower]

Oh god is Manhunt a crappy game.  I bought a used PS2 a couple years ago at a yardsale that came with Manhunt and Manhunt sucked so much I sold the PS2 a week later.

[shmokes]

That seems a little bit over the top.  Why not just sell Manhunt?

[ChadTower]

Didn't really want the PS2 anyway, I bought it because it was $40 (3 years ago).  Manhunt was just the final straw.

[AlanS17]

Didn't really want the PS2 anyway, I bought it because it was $40 (3 years ago).  Manhunt was just the final straw.

Seems a little hasty to me. It's a pretty great system.

[ChadTower]

Not my preference.  I have one now and almost never use it.  Maybe a half hour a month if that.

[shmokes]

That just strikes me as strange.  It's such a great system.  I'd put it in the top three systems ever made, frankly.  The PS2 has done more to bring videogaming to the mainstream than probably any other system in history.  It pretty much single-handedly legitimized gaming as an entertainment medium for people over the age of 14.  And it just has SOOOO many great games.  More than any other system.  Period.  It still outsells just about every other system on the market, and it's been out now for, what, seven years?

I suppose one of the ways that it changed the market, was by placing a much greater emphasis on the equivalent of R-rated videogames, and I know you've mentioned in the past that you don't care for violent games, and perhaps even games that are not particularly violent but have other objectionable content such as language or sexuality might pose a problem for you because of the kids in the house.  I suppose that would possibly cut out a lot of the games.  But really, you can look at any genre, sports, kid games, violent games, etc., and PS2 has more good ones than any other system.

I don't and never have owned a PS2, cos I got a Gamecube cos I'm a Nintendo fanboy and got an Xbox because of Xbox Media Center, so I couldn't justify the purchase of another system, especially considering that I only play a few hours of videogames per month these days.  Nevertheless, I consider the PS2 a superior system than either of those based on its library of games.  By a long shot, frankly.

[KenToad]

You're not a Nintendo fanboy if you can say that the PS2 is one of the greatest systems ever made.  And aren't you confusing the PS2 with the PS1?  That was really the groundbreaker with a really impressive library of games that appealed to a wide selection of gamers.  Many of the great games on the PS2 were sequels of great games on the PS1.  And, it was the first system to hand the guys at Nintendo their asses. 

[AlanS17]

I think both of you are probably right. The PS1 was ground-breaking, but the PS2 really cemented that notion. The PS1 had Final Fantasy 7, which is arguably the single best FF ever made. The PS1 also introduced the FF Tactics series. Though there have been many iterations, Capcom fighting finally became as good as the arcade on a PS1.

Had the Wii not been so cheap (by comparison), I likely never would have gotten one. If the XBox 360 came with HD-DVD built-in then I might be more inclined towards that direction. However, right now (even at such a steep price point) I'm seriously considering getting a PS3.

Since we've now strayed far enough from the original topic... I think the Wii is doing just fine for itself. Sometimes the Wii remote can be a bit wishy-washy, but it truly shines in some games.

With every console, it's all about finding their niche. At least the Wii found its own niche very early on. What remains to be seen is whether or not that niche will be broad enough to sustain the system... but I think it's gonna do just fine.

In the last console generation, I was really concerned that Nintendo might go the way of Sega. If they couldn't step it up in the console arena, they might find themselves relegated to publishing games for other consoles. I think Nintendo is back on the ball now (even though their system is agreeably underpowered).

What I see in the Wii isn't success - it's potential. There's the potential to take gaming in a direction it's never really gone before. And even more importantly... it has the potential to blow away all other consoles in the next generation (5 or 6 years from now) if Nintendo can keep their innovation and match rivals' horsepower the next time around.

[shmokes]

Yeah.  The PS1 was huge, and laid the groundwork for PS2.  PS2 obviously would never have happened without PS1.  But, I still think it was the PS2 that truly brought gaming mainstream.

On Wii, I see the opposite, actually.  I see success, but not potential.  Or, at least, I'm worried about its potential.  I haven't really taken such a firm position on it yet.  But I'm worried that the controller does not have the capability to live up to its promise, because it is simply not sensitive or accurate enough.  Remember, the Dreamcast had the biggest launch in the history of system launches.  They sold more consoles on day one than any console in history. 

Don't get me wrong.  I don't think Nintendo is going the way of Sega just yet.  They have a knack for making money.  While they were in last place in the last console generation, they still turned a perfectly healthy profit (something that Microsoft never did, not for one day, in spite of having a larger share of the market).  If Nintendo could make Gamecube profitable, god knows they can make Wii profitable.  They have a hit on their hands, but I don't really think they can sustain it.  I think that three years from now PS3 will start showing a fairly commanding lead over them, kind of like the SNES ended up winning the 16-bit era, even though it came out two years after the Genesis.

[shmokes]

You're not a Nintendo fanboy if you can say that the PS2 is one of the greatest systems ever made. 

I don't know.  Another way to look at it is that I fully acknowledge that PS2 is a superior system, hands down, yet Gamecube is the one I own.  Are you sure I'm not a fanboy?